The Atari VCS Controversies Thread

[Bill Loguidice]

2 minutes ago, Matt_B said:

30-50fps at 720p on the lowest setting seems to be the general consensus of what the Vega 3 is good for with Fortnite:

 

https://www.userbenchmark.com/PCGame/FPS-Estimates-Fortnite/3954/511366.0.0.0.0

 

A small number of people managed to get it up to 60, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was with the aid of a combination of overclocks, faster RAM, running at 540p, config hacks or just leaving the camera pointing skyward. 4K is going to be in single figures at any settings.

 

Those numbers are mostly based on the Athlon 200GE and the Ryzen 3 2200U rather than the 1606G but it's the same GPU and dual core CPUs of similar clocks, so I doubt there will be much difference.

 

 

 

Thanks, that's kind of what I figured. I have a variety of gaming PCs and laptops in my house, and a recent cheap one I bought with an Intel Core i5-9300H at 3.98GHz and an RTX2060 didn't give me stutter-free performance in Fortnite at 1920x1080, so there are a lot of factors that go into smooth play for those types of games. Of course, again, you also don't want to drop below a certain graphical fidelity because that can be detrimental to gameplay. 

On my reasonable, but modest Intel Core i7-8700 at 3.20GHz desktop with a GTX1080, I can get an average of 189 FPS (and peaks of 398) on Fortnite when I run it at 2560x1080. That's with a 3D resolution of 100, foliage at 0, view distance of Very high (pretty important), and most of the secondary effects like shadows and textures set to Low.

[Bill Loguidice]

18 minutes ago, ColecoKing said:

What is VCS power compared to the average smartphone of Iphone XS or Samsung Note 9 type?

Should tell us what kind of games it can run.

Not a good comparison, really. Smartphones and their software are highly optimized, much like consoles. I'd say the best comparison is to look at the comparable PC processor and video benchmarks and see what they list for various games. Maybe somebody can figure out how to put in the right settings to get some benchmarks on this site or an equivalent: https://technical.city/en/can-i-run-it

[Mockduck]

Yeah specs are fluid due to a lot of factors. I mean the GTX1080 video card alone costs more than the new VCS, so comparisons are hard to modern day PCs. Sounds like it won't do 4k then, though. I don't actually have 4k yet. 

[ColecoKing]

But would that matter for games like Fornite?

[Bill Loguidice]

And just to put a bow on the Fortnite thing because it's just an easy basis for comparison... It appears that both PS5 and Xbox Series X will be able to run the game at launch at 3840 x 2160 (4K) with ray tracing and all other high-end effects on at 120FPS. Whether that actually maintains that performance level 100% of the time remains to be seen post-release, but it nevertheless shows the power disparity when we're arguing whether or not the VCS can even hit >30FPS at 720p (and ignoring the existing PS4 Pro and Xbox One X already do 60FPS at much higher resolutions).

[Bill Loguidice]

4 minutes ago, Mockduck said:

Yeah specs are fluid due to a lot of factors. I mean the GTX1080 video card alone costs more than the new VCS, so comparisons are hard to modern day PCs. Sounds like it won't do 4k then, though. I don't actually have 4k yet. 

I don't envision any scenario where you can game at 4K on the VCS. However, even super low end micro PCs that cost half the price can output 4K video, so it should have no problem doing that. I suspect if you run games on medium to low settings and keep the resolution to 720p - 1080p, the VCS should be able to run a decent selection of titles, especially if you're not playing games that are reliant on consistent performance output like competitive online games.

 

What I'll also find fascinating is how well the VCS manages heat under load. Some laptops get VERY noisy fan-wise when you game with them.

[AtariLeaf]

Ah nice. I'm happy for backers like John Phelan. I hope he enjoys it for what it is. Kinda interested for a review and teardown on youtube

Edited September 28, 2020 by AtariLeaf

[TACODON]

I miss John P

[+x=usr(1536)]

33 minutes ago, AtariLeaf said:

Kinda interested for a review and teardown on youtube

Ditto, as well as recipients' opinions of the system once they actually have it in their hands.  This is assuming that the boat from China doesn't sink.

 

The Register's take on it is one I'm particularly interested in.

 

Really, though, this is the point to keep an eye on their stock ticker from.  Not that I'm expecting it to shoot up into the stratosphere or anything, but it'll be an interesting barometer of how likely Freddy is to offload the company and bail.  Without actual product in retail channels (particularly with less than 3 months to Christmas) and no advertising outside of addressing those who are likely to know about it anyway, it's still coming across as a go-nowhere system.

[+Stephen]

1 hour ago, ColecoKing said:

What is VCS power compared to the average smartphone of Iphone XS or Samsung Note 9 type?

Should tell us what kind of games it can run.

Depends.  NuTari puts out more false information than NASA does so it's pretty hard to know what to believe.  Since we don't post links to substantiate our arguments, your guess is as good as mine.

[Chopsus]

6 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Depends.  NuTari puts out more false information than NASA does so it's pretty hard to know what to believe.  Since we don't post links to substantiate our arguments, your guess is as good as mine.

Yes and their language here can easily be reinterpreted... note that the joystick ? can now be used as the reason why units are not shipped in October... I’m betting a November delivery at best ... which technically means they have missed, yet another, self declared delivery date.

[MrBeefy]

4 hours ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

 Kids are not on the prowl for a new Minecraft or Fortnite gaming box. My kids can play MC on the Switch, but they play it on PC unless they have friends over or don't have a choice for some reason.  

You can also play minecraft on a raspberry pi.

[OCAT]

I am also glad that there is a chance people who put in hard money are not going to get completely ripped off.. Not a nice feeling.
Anyhoo they have a collectable that is all that matters to them, just like the people who bought the new Toyota Supra, underneath is a BMW (company car of questionable herritage) but as long as it had the "SUPRA" badge they are happy.

I hope someone does a proper unboxing, complete setup & demo, then a teardown to see what lurks inside.

Then I hope someone in China makes a copy a-la Famiclone and sells it for $20 shiped xD

[MrBeefy]

28 minutes ago, Chopsus said:

Yes and their language here can easily be reinterpreted... note that the joystick ? can now be used as the reason why units are not shipped in October... I’m betting a November delivery at best ... which technically means they have missed, yet another, self declared delivery date.

Unfortunately I think getting them by late November is going to be best bet. Unless they ship units to those who didn't order the classic controller.

 

All this talk of FPS has me wondering about the real important question. How many Doors Per System (DPS) can be stopped?

[cimerians]

4 minutes ago, OCAT said:

I hope someone does a proper unboxing, complete setup & demo, then a teardown to see what lurks inside.
 

 

Gamers Nexus will do it, pay you extra for it and ship it back to you. Somebody will send one to them.

 

https://www.gamersnexus.net/news-pc/3603-hw-news-amd-3995wx-threadripper-huawei-7nm-atari-vcs

[TACODON]

I guess I started something with calling it a doorstop.

[MrBeefy]

2 minutes ago, OCAT said:

I hope someone does a proper unboxing, complete setup & demo, then a teardown to see what lurks inside.

Then I hope someone in China makes a copy a-la Famiclone and sells it for $20 shiped xD

I think a guy on YouTube, ETA Prime, ordered one. He does a lot of breakdown videos. That's where I learned most my RPi stuff. Maybe he will do one?

[+x=usr(1536)]

1 hour ago, Chopsus said:

Yes and their language here can easily be reinterpreted... note that the joystick ? can now be used as the reason why units are not shipped in October... I’m betting a November delivery at best ... which technically means they have missed, yet another, self declared delivery date.

It would not be surprising to learn that this was a 'the check's in the mail' move.  By stating that units are en route to California from China, they've technically shown a degree of good-faith behaviour to get them to backers.  Of course, the ship could sink en route, the warehouse could burn down, or all of them could be impounded by Customs when they're found to be full of heroin and ivory.

 

Really, though, I would be equally unsurprised to learn that they were shipping 100 or so units just so that they could say that they shipped something when the other howevermany thousand are still waiting to be built.  Sort of like the ZX Spectrum Vega+ fiasco, where at least one of the delivered units was actually 3D printed and painted black.

[Tidus79001]

This will have been well worth the wait to have this device in my entertainment center serving up not onlny modern retro inspired contend, but also serving as my universal retro console emulation device letting me run any emulated console that I want.  I know a lot of people are critical that that it has taken this long to get to this point we are at now with the devices ready to ship, but I fully agree with Atari's decision to delay and redesign it with the console with the AMD Ryzen R1606G processor instead of going with the older model that was on the original specs sheet.  Yes, it is long shot for this device becoming a success and having a thriving ecosystem, but I hope that it will bring 2-D retro gaming mainstream.  If nothing else I will always have it for the purpose or retro game console emulation and have this device as my one stop for playing all of the old game from the various console on yesteryear on my TV.

[AlecRob]

3 minutes ago, Tidus79001 said:

This will have been well worth the wait to have this device in my entertainment center serving up not onlny modern retro inspired contend, but also serving as my universal retro console emulation device letting me run any emulated console that I want.  I know a lot of people are critical that that it has taken this long to get to this point we are at now with the devices ready to ship, but I fully agree with Atari's decision to delay and redesign it with the console with the AMD Ryzen R1606G processor instead of going with the older model that was on the original specs sheet.  Yes, it is long shot for this device becoming a success and having a thriving ecosystem, but I hope that it will bring 2-D retro gaming mainstream.  If nothing else I will always have it for the purpose or retro game console emulation and have this device as my one stop for playing all of the old game from the various console on yesteryear on my TV.

I agree with the delays for upgrades too.  I’m gonna hook up a large external hard drive and use this as a home theater PC, emulation box, windows gaming/phantasy star online 2, internet browsing/email/youtube/streaming etc device.  I think it looks cool.

[joeatari1]

My purpose has always been as a media center for my living room.  I can eliminate cable, play retro games, browse the internet, stream, play new games (perhaps not AAA titles but maybe AA), all in one attractive package.  Of course I could do all of these things with a pi, plus a cable box, plus a laptop etc. etc.  but this is an all in or solution for me and comes at a reasonable price and in a good looking case (my opinion of course).  Why would I clutter my daily living space with four or five different devices that do four or five different things?  Gonna have fun with this despite all the taco theorists here.

[OCAT]

I know that a lot of you backers have wonderful plans for this VCS, but please bear in mind that this has a soldered on eMMC, basically a suped up SD card that cannot be removed. So if you have any big plans make sure the software you install avoids excessive write cycles. This will probably be the last time you see a new Atari console, if you want to keep it for 10+ years in working order, the box might be a good place!
Trust me, time creeps up on you, I have a 4GB iPhone seaaaaaaaaaaaled!, we are in 2020, that thing came out in 2007.

Or you could just order another one :)

[MrBeefy]

3 hours ago, Tidus79001 said:

 but I hope that it will bring 2-D retro gaming mainstream.  

...um......

 

I think it already is mainstream in a bunch of different ways. It isn't going to make it any more mainstream than what a PC does. Not to mention it still requires just as much work if not more so than a RPi. It won't have the emulators ready nor I'm guessing an OS ready to go. We don't know if it even has the 2600 emulator they mentioned at one point (I'm sure Stella is the way to go even if they do). 

 

2 hours ago, joeatari1 said:

Gonna have fun with this despite all the taco theorists here.

I still think people will enjoy it. I hope it does all those things well. The only thing I really see it doing better is maybe an easier/nicer looking PC set up.

 

Also on a side note I think we've established that tacos exist so I think we can call that a law. We all have different theories as to how the Ataribox is going to perform. We need more experiments and DATA!!!!

Edited September 29, 2020 by MrBeefy

[Tidus79001]

3 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

...um......

 

I think it already is mainstream in a bunch of different ways. It isn't going to make it any more mainstream than what a PC does. Not to mention it still requires just as much work if not more so than a RPi. It won't have the emulators ready nor I'm guessing an OS ready to go. We don't know if it even has the 2600 emulator they mentioned at one point (I'm sure Stella is the way to go even if they do). 

 

I still think people will enjoy it. I hope it does all those things well. The only thing I really see it doing is maybe an easier/nicer looking PC set up.

 

Also on a side note I think we've established that tacos exist so I think we can call that a law. We all have different theories as to how the Ataribox is going to perform. We need more experiments and DATA!!!!

I mean new modern retro inspired content.  Not the old ROM's on a flashback device.

Edited September 29, 2020 by Tidus79001

[MrBeefy]

Just now, Tidus79001 said:

I mean new modern retro inspired content.  Not the old ROM on a flashback device

Gotcha, but that is already being done. Indie scene has a plethora of that available. Steam and Switch eShops already have that too.

 

I bought this for $0.09 on Switch and bought it again on Steam because it was so good.

 

Retro inspired has been pretty mainstream for awhile. Was it 2014 that Shovelknight came out? I think IMO that was one of the games that showed you can have a new game in an old style and be fun. 

 

Now if you mean you want a cookie cutter version of a retro game with new paint, there is another retro console coming out next year that will scratch that itch some.