Shaggy the Atarian Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 (edited) 25 minutes ago, AlecRob said: I’m not saying VCS is going to be a blockbuster success... i just don't see it worthy of receiving so much hate. Atari, SA doesn’t bother me, really. I’d rather see people discussing unique ways of using the VCS hardware and homebrew projects. Instead we get endless banter about why it will flop. Ok, it’s already established that the machine will most likely flop. What creative things can we do with this machine? It doesn't bother you that this is a product coming to us from a company that regularly lies to their customers and doesn't pay their contractors, but it bothers lots of others. We're all Atari fans here and hate seeing these grifters run the name into the ground, but I've noticed that VCS fans aren't bothered by it at all. Guess it's pointless to argue that point any further. But that's a big reason a lot of us find this worthy of "hating" (more like mocking, having fun with it), since you asked. Why it will flop gets at the heart of why there's not going to be a lot of "cool" homebrew projects for it. There's nothing unique about this to be able to do something interesting with it. There are far more interesting things still going on for every Atari system listed at the top of this forum than we'll see on the VCS. Why, because everything you can do on the VCS you can do on any computer released over the past 10 years. Why this is so hard to understand, I don't know. As for games, at least Atari announced something new for it recently, although it's also going to be available for PC/PS4/XB1 so who gives a crap that it will be on the VCS unless you have a VCS and need a reason to justify the purchase: Edited December 8, 2020 by Shaggy the Atarian Added the Neko game 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 25 minutes ago, Shaggy the Atarian said: Why it will flop gets at the heart of why there's not going to be a lot of "cool" homebrew projects for it. There's nothing unique about this to be able to do something interesting with it. There are far more interesting things still going on for every Atari system listed at the top of this forum than we'll see on the VCS. Why, because everything you can do on the VCS you can do on any computer released over the past 10 years. Why this is so hard to understand, I don't know. While I obviously agree with all of this, I think with the product's defenders we really don't have to look much further - based solely on their own words and deeds - that as long as it has the Atari logo and comes from the company who represents the Atari IP/branding today, that's all that ultimately matters. That in and of itself explains all the other stuff about the product's "why?," "value," or anything else of substance that tends to matter to other people. I really don't see anything wrong with that as long as we're all honest about it. I know I'm guilty of more than my fair share of irrational, emotionally-minded purchases. Honestly, the mentality from some with the VCS is not that far removed from rabid defenders of the Atari Jaguar, which is not that far removed from rabid defenders of a person's platform of choice (regardless of whether that platform decision was a conscious decision or it was all they had access to). It just a matter of degrees and level of rabidity. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggy the Atarian Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 Fair enough, I've also done my share of fangirling on old Atari consoles. I'm very interesting in that Kings of Edom RPG that's being talked about on the Jaguar forum and the IS3 re-release on the NUON. Those probably aren't "rational" purchases by how we might define logic. If the VCS were announced back in 1998 when I was on a Jaguar collecting kick, I'd probably have been a staunch defender of it solely for that irrational reason (it's one reason why I was a big proponent of the NUON, I saw it as the Jaguar 2). After all I've seen them do though, I'm still just baffled by how Atari SA has managed to still keep some of that loyalty going, since they've done nothing to earn it. Further to Alec's comment, I should add that I don't find PC homebrew interesting on the same level as retro consoles because the indie scene for PC is huge and has a ton of tools that allow you to make a game. A huge swath of content on Steam is indie or homebrew. Even someone like me, who has no coding skills, can make something in Unity or Game Maker or a bunch of other layman engines that have come into being, using a FPS kit or platformer kit, etc. In fact I'm using one of those right now to make an arcade trivia game But for original consoles like the 2600-Jaguar, even with modern tools, it's a lot harder to make and publish something for it. That makes it more special than what's available on PC. If those homebrews were coming to the VCS as well as the Atari platform they were made for(officially, not through making the customer install an emulator and download the ROM), that could be interesting and give the VCS some kind of edge, but so far, I'm not aware of any one here or in the Atari homebrew scene in doing that. Since they haven't, makes it a moot point. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6502wrangler Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 18 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said: Honestly, the mentality from some with the VCS is not that far removed from rabid defenders of the Atari Jaguar, which is not that far removed from rabid defenders of a person's platform of choice (regardless of whether that platform decision was a conscious decision or it was all they had access to). It just a matter of degrees and level of rabidity. I was a rabid defender of the Lynx back in the day. But the thing is, these folks are rabid defenders of a platform that doesn't exist. It's kind of strange. I'm not sure I fully understand the thought process. I mean, who are these folks who actually think Atari Token is a good idea? How can yet another distracting cash grab be anything but a negative for the quality of the VCS? And yet these guys seem so cult-like in their devotion to Atari SA, and actually think the Hotels are going to happen. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikebloke Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 49 minutes ago, Shaggy the Atarian said: As for games, at least Atari announced something new for it recently, although it's also going to be available for PC/PS4/XB1 so who gives a crap that it will be on the VCS unless you have a VCS and need a reason to justify the purchase: Although confirmed in the comments, it wasn't deemed important enough to be mentioned in the announcement trailer 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggy the Atarian Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, Mikebloke said: Although confirmed in the comments, it wasn't deemed important enough to be mentioned in the announcement trailer Yeah I noticed that. You also had this article incorrectly touting it as the "first Atari VCS original game" (weird tangent: I went to high school with the writer of the bleedingcool site...). Of course, he was probably regurgitating Atari's lie, trying to make it sound like they had something original coming to the console, finally. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_B Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 1 hour ago, 6502wrangler said: I was a rabid defender of the Lynx back in the day. But the thing is, these folks are rabid defenders of a platform that doesn't exist. It's kind of strange. I'm not sure I fully understand the thought process. I mean, who are these folks who actually think Atari Token is a good idea? How can yet another distracting cash grab be anything but a negative for the quality of the VCS? And yet these guys seem so cult-like in their devotion to Atari SA, and actually think the Hotels are going to happen. The Lynx was a cutting edge platform for its time though. No handheld even came close to what it could do until the, much bulkier, Sega Nomad came out several years later. The GameBoy was generally a better machine to have on account of its vast games library, small size and really good battery life, but the Lynx certainly held a niche. The Jaguar too was at least a vaguely competitive platform for a year or so until the PlayStation came out. You can look back at games like Tempest 2000 and Rayman as classics for their time even if the machine was always doomed to be a commercial failure. The VCS just looks over a generation behind machines that it's selling at more or less the same price as. $389 for it versus $299 for a Series S or $399 for a PS5 Digital - not that any of them are in stock at the moment - is just no contest. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agillig Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, Matt_B said: The Lynx was a cutting edge platform for its time though. No handheld even came close to what it could do until the, much bulkier, Sega Nomad came out several years later. The GameBoy was generally a better machine to have on account of its vast games library, small size and really good battery life, but the Lynx certainly held a niche. The Jaguar too was at least a vaguely competitive platform for a year or so until the PlayStation came out. You can look back at games like Tempest 2000 and Rayman as classics for their time even if the machine was always doomed to be a commercial failure. The VCS just looks over a generation behind machines that it's selling at more or less the same price as. $389 for it versus $299 for a Series S or $399 for a PS5 Digital - not that any of them are in stock at the moment - is just no contest. This sums it up right here. Say what you will about the Jaguar, but if you got one, there was some good gaming to be had on it. Ditto the Lynx. Compare the Lynx to the Game Boy, and each system had its strengths and weaknesses. On the flip side, you really have to stretch the truth to come up with any strengths for the VCS. You've got brand loyalty, and a kinda cool retro joystick, that will probably be available for any USB compatible device at some point. That's it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarioMan88 Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 20 hours ago, GoldLeader said: Well, being fair, ... Terrible though it is...It's still better than the VCS! (And your ticket wasn't 300 bucks!) True! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tavi Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 I see that 'The Cheese' has just given a bit of an interview, talking about the Atari Box and Atari Token. The TLDR version is it seems Chesnais wants a big push for Atari in developing more cryptocurrency and getting into blockchain gaming and digital collectibles. https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/atari-ceo-on-crypto-token-and-blockchain-gaming-we-know-this-is-going-to-work-213158823.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_B Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 Of course he wants to do more with cryptocurrency. When you can make it for free and sell it for real money, that totally dovetails with his business model. ? 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggy the Atarian Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 53 minutes ago, Tavi said: I see that 'The Cheese' has just given a bit of an interview, talking about the Atari Box and Atari Token. The TLDR version is it seems Chesnais wants a big push for Atari in developing more cryptocurrency and getting into blockchain gaming and digital collectibles. https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/atari-ceo-on-crypto-token-and-blockchain-gaming-we-know-this-is-going-to-work-213158823.html Just the first paragraph of that story is ridiculous and lazy Quote Atari, the classic game developer known for Tetris, Pong, and Pac-Man, has been relatively quiet for years, after it was bought by French company Infogrames in 2008, then filed for bankruptcy in 2013. At least they got one game right...(and Atari filed for bankruptcy in 2012). Quote Atari is also planning a separate Pong token, Quote Atari’s new Atari VCS console is at the center of the blockchain push. The machine, a hybrid console and PC, comes with blockchain connectivity for online gaming and cryptocurrency spending. Ah, so that's the real purpose of the VCS now...to spam users with ads about their worthless digital currency and digital items. I totally recall that being the pitch back in 2017, don't you? Quote After delays caused by the pandemic,Atari being cheapskates and losing their system architects, the console is probably shipping this month to early backers of its IndieGoGo campaign. Fixed it for the writer Quote ..." This is a space that I don’t want to ignore, because I believe this is a space that has tremendous potential.” Translation: "Why hasn't someone richer than me bought me out already? What do I have to do to tell you that I'm for sale??!" Quote A traditional video game console is easy to pick up and play. Blockchain gaming, and spending of in-game cryptocurrency, will come with a learning curve that could limit mainstream adoption. There is a learning curve,” said Chesnais. “We are constrained by the existing limitations of the blockchain, the number of players and concurrent users you can have,” You're mainly constrained by the fact that the install base for the VCS isn't going to be much larger than 11,000, which is nothing to move the needle on this Next Big ThingTM and good luck at getting 100% of them to jump on-board with a feature that you've not really mentioned or explained about on the Atari Mega Vault playing machine. Quote Compare PlayStation 1 to the last version of the PlayStation – they have made tremendous progress. Lol, the reasons for upgrading from one PlayStation to the next have been, and always will be, far more abundant than buying the evolution of the Flashback. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 18 minutes ago, Shaggy the Atarian said: A traditional video game console is easy to pick up and play. Blockchain gaming, and spending of in-game cryptocurrency, will come with a learning curve that could limit mainstream adoption. There is a learning curve,” said Chesnais. “We are constrained by the existing limitations of the blockchain, the number of players and concurrent users you can have,” 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBeefy Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 I think it was Tacodon who had a creative use for the VCS as a homebrew doorstop. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toiletunes Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 5 hours ago, AlecRob said: Ok, it’s already established that the machine will most likely flop. What creative things can we do with this machine? You might be able to prop up a wobbly table. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasperAK Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 4 hours ago, Shaggy the Atarian said: Yeah I noticed that. You also had this article incorrectly touting it as the "first Atari VCS original game" (weird tangent: I went to high school with the writer of the bleedingcool site...). Of course, he was probably regurgitating Atari's lie, trying to make it sound like they had something original coming to the console, finally. Oh for F---ks sake,'first Atati VCS original game'? There are more developers for the 40-year-old VCS than there are for that new bookend with an Atari Logo. (Thinking of creative things to do with the new VC/CS.) 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarioMan88 Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 3 weeks left in this year...anybody got their VCS yet? I laugh when I think about Nutari generating 11,000 plus shipping numbers. I doubt that could muster enough to successfully ship 11 products. Weeks not months.... 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 39 minutes ago, JasperAK said: bookend I doubt it is heavy enough to hold up books in that form factor. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+x=usr(1536) Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Shaggy the Atarian said: Yeah I noticed that. You also had this article incorrectly touting it as the "first Atari VCS original game" (weird tangent: I went to high school with the writer of the bleedingcool site...). Of course, he was probably regurgitating Atari's lie, trying to make it sound like they had something original coming to the console, finally. And that's the thing: Fauxtari isn't going so far as to outright lie, because you probably will be able to play Neko Ghost Jump on the Ataribollocks(tm). Just install Steam and grab it from their store! And, hey, if someone else wants to make it sound like it's an original game... Who are they to argue? But they'll certainly do everything they can to make it sound as though they have an exclusive, or at least some sort of release specifically for their platform, when what they really have is bugger-all you can't get 10,000 other ways. That's totally worth $400, amirite? Edited December 9, 2020 by x=usr(1536) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+x=usr(1536) Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 2 hours ago, Tavi said: blockchain gaming Incidentally, does anyone know WTF this actually means? Fauxtari keep using the term like there's some sort of substance to it, but every time they open their trap about it it seems to be slightly different and no clearer than before. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godslabrat Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 11 minutes ago, x=usr(1536) said: Incidentally, does anyone know WTF this actually means? Fauxtari keep using the term like there's some sort of substance to it, but every time they open their trap about it it seems to be slightly different and no clearer than before. I don't even think l'Atari knows. It's just a buzzphrase they can use for publicity. File it away with "blast processing" and "hybrid emulation". 8 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agillig Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 1 hour ago, x=usr(1536) said: Incidentally, does anyone know WTF this actually means? Fauxtari keep using the term like there's some sort of substance to it, but every time they open their trap about it it seems to be slightly different and no clearer than before. I guess you can use it as a wallet for digital currency to buy stuff in games. So, it's a fancy way of saying "microtransactions." Afterall, everyone loves microtransactions, and we need more ways to spend money on content that we should have got when we purchased the game. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACODON Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 Atari set the VCS to only work while online because the VCS is going to be the units running and processing their crypto currency. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Historian Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 2 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said: Incidentally, does anyone know WTF this actually means? Sure, you take an existing gaming technology, like unique items in an MMO or virtual land and items in Second Life, add an additional layer of unnecessary "blockchain" technology and pull in the idiots who don't know anything about gaming or blockchain... but heard that bitcoin made people a lot of money. Blockchain brings nothing to the table that doesn't already exist in gaming in some form. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasperAK Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 18 minutes ago, TACODON said: Atari set the VCS to only work while online because the VCS is going to be the units running and processing their crypto currency. There they go again mucking it up again. How can they expect a server web of less than 11,000 substandard PCs to connect their mighty bitcoin and hotel empire? There's more computing power devoted by amateurs looking for Planet 9 on https://www.zooniverse.org/projects/marckuchner/backyard-worlds-planet-9. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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