The Atari VCS Controversies Thread

[leech]

12 minutes ago, Nathan Strum said:

I totally read that as "Gamestop sold out of their entire allotment of seventeen in minutes at midnight on April 30th."

 

But of course that's ridiculous.

 

It would take Gamestop weeks to sell seventeen AtariVCisn'ts.

 

Assuming Atari could get seventeen of them to Gamestop in the first place.

I know at least 17 people on discord that have them.  ?

 

Hey, if the Amiga can get an updated operating system released, Atari can release a new game system.

[Matt_B]

10 hours ago, leech said:

Unlike a PS5 I can actually get a VCS for a reasonable price.  People threw them up on eBay.  Is there even a reason to get a PS5 yet?  I am sure some amazing game will eventually be released for it, or maybe the next PSVR will be cool, but that is a year or so away...

I'd think that you probably could get a PS5 for the MSRP if you were prepared to wait a bit. There are plenty of stores taking pre-orders, at any rate, and they are making a lot of them.

 

As to whether it's worth it, I'd guess it mostly comes down to how much playing PS4 games at 4K/120fps does for you. I can't say that I'm a massive fan of any of Sony's exclusive franchises, but it's a lot less to spend than on a PC setup for that kind of gaming, and it's not like the Series X is any easier to come by.

 

Getting something that could match the VCS would be a heck of a lot cheaper still though.

 

[Cebus Capucinis]

Well, you see, the thing is, you can't compare it to a games console, because as soon as you do, it magically transforms into a COMPUTER. They're clearly not the same, so despite being crap, the VCS is better.

 

Unless, of course, you point out other, cheaper computers that have better specs. Then it magically transforms into a GAMES CONSOLE solely for the purpose of avoiding any comparison, so it must be better than those, too. (Especially due to all those EXCLUSIVE GAMES that are also on Steam, Google Stadia, Xbox, PS4, my toaster, the neighbor's dog, etc.)

 

Somehow, no matter what stage it transforms into, it's a universally beloved and worldwide smash hit. (It's unthinkable that it could just be....a bad games console AND a bad computer simultaneously, after all. It certainly won't sell less units than the Ouya, another venerated and vaunted GLOBAL HIT!)

 

Rinse, repeat, apply Ouroboros at each stage, and you don't even have to read the last 145 pages!

 

(It's almost like from its very inception the VCS was meant to fleece rabid fanboys of their money and Atari knew they didn't actually have to TRY. A shocking revelation, I know!)

[Bill Loguidice]

14 hours ago, leech said:

Unlike a PS5 I can actually get a VCS for a reasonable price.  People threw them up on eBay.  Is there even a reason to get a PS5 yet?  I am sure some amazing game will eventually be released for it, or maybe the next PSVR will be cool, but that is a year or so away...

To each their own and of all that, but wow, the two consoles are not even from the same planet. While I consider the PS5 physically among the most hideous systems ever released, there's no denying its amazing controllers and performance. Heck, I'd argue that the free PS5 pack-in game, Astro's Playroom, is going to give you more fresh fun than anything on the VCS, particularly with that system's technical limitations. And while new consoles like the PS5 and Xbox Series S/X have "few" relative exclusives and games that take full advantage of the new system capabilities, they're still each way, way ahead of what the VCS has or ever will have in those areas. I mean, seriously, while I don't understand why anyone is interested in a VCS in any way, I can at least acknowledge that people do have their reasons, but trying to compare it to something like a PS5 in any way is just taking things to a pretty crazy level.

And just as a point of comparison, the PS5 has roughly 300 PS5-enhanced games and is compatible with over 3000 PS4 games. Not bad for 5 whole months on the market. For the Xbox Series S/X, that's a little over 200 XSX/X-enhanced games and compatibility with over 2,700 Xbox One games and another 600+ Xbox 360 and original Xbox games. And of course, those lists will continue to grow because those are very much active and successful platforms with years of support ahead of them. So yeah, even if you may have to get lucky to get one and in some configurations cost a bit more than a VCS, it's hard to argue against it not being worth it. 

[leech]

2 hours ago, Bill Loguidice said:

To each their own and of all that, but wow, the two consoles are not even from the same planet. While I consider the PS5 physically among the most hideous systems ever released, there's no denying its amazing controllers and performance. Heck, I'd argue that the free PS5 pack-in game, Astro's Playroom, is going to give you more fresh fun than anything on the VCS, particularly with that system's technical limitations. And while new consoles like the PS5 and Xbox Series S/X have "few" relative exclusives and games that take full advantage of the new system capabilities, they're still each way, way ahead of what the VCS has or ever will have in those areas. I mean, seriously, while I don't understand why anyone is interested in a VCS in any way, I can at least acknowledge that people do have their reasons, but trying to compare it to something like a PS5 in any way is just taking things to a pretty crazy level.

And just as a point of comparison, the PS5 has roughly 300 PS5-enhanced games and is compatible with over 3000 PS4 games. Not bad for 5 whole months on the market. For the Xbox Series S/X, that's a little over 200 XSX/X-enhanced games and compatibility with over 2,700 Xbox One games and another 600+ Xbox 360 and original Xbox games. And of course, those lists will continue to grow because those are very much active and successful platforms with years of support ahead of them. So yeah, even if you may have to get lucky to get one and in some configurations cost a bit more than a VCS, it's hard to argue against it not being worth it. 

Wait, you are telling me enhanced games and ps4 games.  I have a ps4 pro already, and really don't give a crap about enhanced games.  I want new ones if I am buying a new system.  (The fact they dropped PS3 and earlier compatibility still irritates me with the PS4 though.) 

 

But yeah, I am not going to try to get a PS5 until there is something out worth getting... and they release a black version.

 

Also, I love how easily I can make people freak when I make a joke.  I mostly game on my PC, the VCS has basically been sitting connected, but unused as I have other things to do than play video games.

[leech]

4 hours ago, Cebus Capucinis said:

Unless, of course, you point out other, cheaper computers that have better specs. Then it magically transforms into a GAMES CONSOLE solely for the purpose of avoiding any comparison, so it must be better than those, too. (Especially due to all those EXCLUSIVE GAMES that are also on Steam, Google Stadia, Xbox, PS4, my toaster, the neighbor's dog, etc.)

I have yet to find cheaper with better specs.  They are close specs, and nothing I would really try doing any stronger gaming on than I would on the VCS. 

 

The VCS is definitely meant for low power 'retro' gaming, and nothing like the mad RTX stuff like Cyberpunk.  Hell, the 30 series cards alone all cost more than the VCS does. 

[Bill Loguidice]

1 hour ago, leech said:

Wait, you are telling me enhanced games and ps4 games.  I have a ps4 pro already, and really don't give a crap about enhanced games.  I want new ones if I am buying a new system.  (The fact they dropped PS3 and earlier compatibility still irritates me with the PS4 though.) 

 

But yeah, I am not going to try to get a PS5 until there is something out worth getting... and they release a black version.

 

Also, I love how easily I can make people freak when I make a joke.  I mostly game on my PC, the VCS has basically been sitting connected, but unused as I have other things to do than play video games.

I honestly don't know how much exclusive-to-a-very-specific-hardware-type is going to be a thing anymore. It's likely to be more of a "plays optimally on x" type of thing. Pretty much everything game capable now, including PCs, Sony consoles, Microsoft consoles, and almost certainly Nintendo's imminent next iteration of the Switch, will just be better/faster hardware that will play more or less the same games as one (or sometimes more) generation(s) back, just improved. Just about everything these days is developed on common toolsets with relatively easy porting to all kinds of hardware types, obviously. Even something like the VCS is nothing more than a way to play non-exclusive, lower-end PC games that happen to get ported (unless you put your own OS on and go through some other hoops). 

 

In any case, I personally don't begrudge the move to a PC-like model of backwards compatibility and something being playable across various generations of hardware. I'm one of those people who will always want to play the best possible versions on the best possible hardware, but I like the flexibility of playing it on other things. (And side note, "enhanced for" can certainly feel like a new experience even if exclusives are not a sole focus.) Certainly the recent push for handheld gaming PCs (with at least three excellent options to choose from at the moment) is going to bring a lot of that same thinking back to PC, i.e., I can play the highest performance stuff optimally on my desktop PC, but can also play almost all of the same games, just scaled back for a mobile experience. It truly continues to be the best time ever to be a gamer.

[godslabrat]

11 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

I honestly don't know how much exclusive-to-a-very-specific-hardware-type is going to be a thing anymore. It's likely to be more of a "plays optimally on x" type of thing. Pretty much everything game capable now, including PCs, Sony consoles, Microsoft consoles, and almost certainly Nintendo's imminent next iteration of the Switch, will just be better/faster hardware that will play more or less the same games as one (or sometimes more) generation(s) back, just improved. Just about everything these days is developed on common toolsets with relatively easy porting to all kinds of hardware types, obviously. Even something like the VCS is nothing more than a way to play non-exclusive, lower-end PC games that happen to get ported (unless you put your own OS on and go through some other hoops). 

 

In any case, I personally don't begrudge the move to a PC-like model of backwards compatibility and something being playable across various generations of hardware. I'm one of those people who will always want to play the best possible versions on the best possible hardware, but I like the flexibility of playing it on other things. (And side note, "enhanced for" can certainly feel like a new experience even if exclusives are not a sole focus.) Certainly the recent push for handheld gaming PCs (with at least three excellent options to choose from at the moment) is going to bring a lot of that same thinking back to PC, i.e., I can play the highest performance stuff optimally on my desktop PC, but can also play almost all of the same games, just scaled back for a mobile experience. It truly continues to be the best time ever to be a gamer.

I felt this when I looked at my PS3 and 360, and realized that owning both was completely unnecessary.  Previously, I'd always found value in having competing consoles, but starting with that generation, it felt like I spent too much money and had very little to show for it.

 

I've since adopted the stance of playing the games I want on my Switch, if there's any practical way to do so.  If the game isn't on switch, I'll buy it on Xbox.  If it's not on either, I just don't need it. 
 

Completely opposite to the way I used to see gaming, but I'm much more satisfied, and have zero fomo.

[CPUWIZ]

The big question still remains, where is the natively running version of DOOM?  Or did I miss it?

 

 

[Matt_B]

On 5/17/2021 at 5:15 AM, leech said:

I want new ones if I am buying a new system.

Why on Earth did you ever buy a VCS then? ?

[leech]

16 minutes ago, Matt_B said:

Why on Earth did you ever buy a VCS then? ?

I got some new games for it.  Unsung warriors seems pretty sweet actually.  Guntech is interesting. 

But hey, I buy ridiculous and stupid shit all the time.  Like I now own multiple 800XLs because they have different keyboard types...

[+Stephen]

21 minutes ago, leech said:

I got some new games for it.  Unsung warriors seems pretty sweet actually.  Guntech is interesting. 

But hey, I buy ridiculous and stupid shit all the time.  Like I now own multiple 800XLs because they have different keyboard types...

Well yeah, but the 800XL also is good hardware, has new games coming out every year, and was made when the name Atari actually meant more than patent trolling and Crowdfunding to build communities.

[leech]

4 hours ago, Stephen said:

Well yeah, but the 800XL also is good hardware, has new games coming out every year, and was made when the name Atari actually meant more than patent trolling and Crowdfunding to build communities.

True.  Pre-Tramiel days were good.  Though that was also video game crash Atari.  5200 controller Atari, etc.  You know, now that I think about it, while the engineers came up with some amazing designs and games, Atari for most of its life was kind of crap.  There was (in the grand scheme of things) a very brief moment in time when they were amazing and everyone knew their name.  Now (and really since the 7800) they have mostly been known for having failed consoles, and a barely successful computer line.  Nintendo smashed them in the console market (though they cheated) and Commodore and then Apple and Compatibles beat them in the computer market. 

If you look at it that way, it is amazing there is even a single entity that still owns (at least moat of) Atari's IP.  Unlike Commodore's who no one really knows, so there are constant lawsuits...

[Agillig]

7 hours ago, leech said:

I got some new games for it.  Unsung warriors seems pretty sweet actually.  Guntech is interesting. 

But hey, I buy ridiculous and stupid shit all the time.  Like I now own multiple 800XLs because they have different keyboard types...

By all accounts, the system is a pretty competent emulation device, apparently running PS and maybe even Game Cube games.  There are plenty of other devices on the market that can do this, but for the money, it doesn't sound terrible.

[Lord Mushroom]

4 hours ago, leech said:

Atari for most of its life was kind of crap.  There was (in the grand scheme of things) a very brief moment in time when they were amazing and everyone knew their name. 

It is because Nolan Bushnell sold it. When he disappeared, it gradually turned into shit. Atari Games, the arcade division which was not owned by Tramiel, did pretty well, though.

[leech]

9 hours ago, Lord Mushroom said:

It is because Nolan Bushnell sold it. When he disappeared, it gradually turned into shit. Atari Games, the arcade division which was not owned by Tramiel, did pretty well, though.

Hot Tub meetings = Awesome Atari.    To be fair, credit should be given to Atari of that time to the entire culture of how Silicon Valley became later on.  Granted history could  be very different if it weren't Warner that bought Atari.  But whatever, it is what it is.  It isn't like some of the other companies out there are anything like they used to be.  Sega sort of exists for example, but not like it used to be, and it seems they only churn out Video games to keep up appearances.  I wonder if they decided to make a new game console, if they'd get as much hate as the VCS does.

[godslabrat]

21 minutes ago, leech said:

Hot Tub meetings = Awesome Atari.    To be fair, credit should be given to Atari of that time to the entire culture of how Silicon Valley became later on.  Granted history could  be very different if it weren't Warner that bought Atari.  But whatever, it is what it is.  It isn't like some of the other companies out there are anything like they used to be.  Sega sort of exists for example, but not like it used to be, and it seems they only churn out Video games to keep up appearances.  I wonder if they decided to make a new game console, if they'd get as much hate as the VCS does.

I'm pretty sure "hot tub meetings" is the phrase that made all the FauxRetro Console makers think they could pull it off.  Mike, Fred, Bryan... all trying to be late-70s hotshots.

[+Stephen]

29 minutes ago, leech said:

Sega sort of exists for example, but not like it used to be, and it seems they only churn out Video games to keep up appearances.  I wonder if they decided to make a new game console, if they'd get as much hate as the VCS does.

If Sega sued every fan that used their name or property in a website, failed to deliver other products that were crowd funded, announced a fake console to get a pump and dump on their stocks hoping for a buyout, raised millions of dollars to "build a community", was 2 years late delivering a product that was overpriced and under-powered, I would imagine that YES, that would get the same hate.

 

Why do people keep forgetting all of the bullshit surrounding this company and this console?  Current Atari has earned every bit of hatred they experience.

[godslabrat]

5 minutes ago, Stephen said:

If Sega sued every fan that used their name or property in a website, failed to deliver other products that were crowd funded, announced a fake console to get a pump and dump on their stocks hoping for a buyout, raised millions of dollars to "build a community", was 2 years late delivering a product that was overpriced and under-powered, I would imagine that YES, that would get the same hate.

 

Why do people keep forgetting all of the bullshit surrounding this company and this console?  Current Atari has earned every bit of hatred they experience.

Indeed.  At this point, it's a struggle to find examples of anything l'Atari has done right, or that doesn't indicate an offensive mix of incompetence and dishonesty.  They're well past the point of "give them another chance" or "everyone messes up sometimes".  A smart consumer at this point would not trust them at all.

[+x=usr(1536)]

1 hour ago, Stephen said:

Why do people keep forgetting all of the bullshit surrounding this company and this console?  Current Atari has earned every bit of hatred they experience.

 

Brand loyalty is a hell of a drug.

 

[leech]

31 minutes ago, x=usr(1536) said:

 

Brand loyalty is a hell of a drug.

 

I'm Rick James!

[leech]

2 hours ago, Stephen said:

If Sega sued every fan that used their name or property in a website, failed to deliver other products that were crowd funded, announced a fake console to get a pump and dump on their stocks hoping for a buyout, raised millions of dollars to "build a community", was 2 years late delivering a product that was overpriced and under-powered, I would imagine that YES, that would get the same hate.

 

Why do people keep forgetting all of the bullshit surrounding this company and this console?  Current Atari has earned every bit of hatred they experience.

I think actually putting a chunk of plastic with a workable OS and pieces of hardware went at least part of the way to easing at least some backers' minds.  People have had fun with their VCS.  And while the people up top are all about the $$ and are as slimy as the grease pan at McDonalds, the people down below seem genuinely enthusiastic about the console and at least seem to be giving it some effort.

 

Whether any of that effort pays off in the end, who will know.

 

But I think my point stands, throughout the majority of Atari's existence, the management decisions have been sketchy looking back at it.  If the Tramiels had started shopping it around in say... '92?  Maybe something could have been done better.  Who knows.

[Lord Mushroom]

8 hours ago, leech said:

Sega sort of exists for example, but not like it used to be, and it seems they only churn out Video games to keep up appearances. 

I see a lot of similarities between Sega and Atari. Sega has just been descending for a shorter period of time. But don´t worry, they will get there. ?

[Matt_B]

1 hour ago, Lord Mushroom said:

I see a lot of similarities between Sega and Atari. Sega has just been descending for a shorter period of time. But don´t worry, they will get there. ?

Sega are doing fine. They were just rated the best games publisher of 2020, even:

 

https://www.metacritic.com/pictures/2021-game-publisher-rankings/31

 

I don't think there's any danger of that happening to Atari any time in the foreseeable future.

[leech]

3 hours ago, Matt_B said:

Sega are doing fine. They were just rated the best games publisher of 2020, even:

 

https://www.metacritic.com/pictures/2021-game-publisher-rankings/31

 

I don't think there's any danger of that happening to Atari any time in the foreseeable future.

Well the point is that Sega is no longer remotely the same company that did the consoles.  Sure they own the IP, and publish games.  But they're a subsidiary of some company.  I can't remember all the details at the moment.  But basically they're Sega in name only.  That's pretty much where they are similar to Atari.  I do still like the current Sega though, they seem far more friendly to native Linux ports than SO many other companies out there.  Though weirdly they haven't released any Sonic games for Linux, but that Genesis collection on Steam was ported over.  Then again, it has been ported to pretty much every platform / operating system that is current