The Atari VCS Controversies Thread

[Shaggy the Atarian]

25 minutes ago, Razzie.P said:

Asking as someone who has followed this thing virtually none -- was it / is it DOA?  

 

I saw a couple of posts on here (and an couple of articles) and kinda started having an interest in it, but the impression I got was that it was doing ok.  Not great, but definitely had some value and maybe worth checking out.  But if it's generally accepted that it was DOA, then I'll go back to my nearly 0% level of interest.

It's received an article here and there in the mainstream, but there's little indication that it's sold much more than the initial backer amounts. We don't know for sure how many of the 11,000~ backer orders were just for the joysticks though, so guesstimates put sales somewhere around 10k, probably lower. In the gaming business world, that's pretty much DOA, as it shows developers that there's no reason to waste their time on creating anything interesting or unique for it.

 

As for "some value," that depends on what you're looking for in a gaming device. For the model I saw at Best Buy at about $400, not sure what games or features it has that would justify spending that money on it instead of a Switch or an Xbox Series S, both of which are cheaper. If you want a really expensive way to play 5 or 6 7800 games on your new TV though, I suppose there's that. Or you just get the Atari-branded Raspberry Pi for $100 that has HDMI out and let the emulator do the rest. 

[toiletunes]

Keep an eye on the order number thread, they just passed the 10k mark for all games sold. Some people likely bought multiple games, some people likely bought none, but it's the best estimate we have for gauging atari community engagement. 30-40 different games available, with a total of 10k sold makes an average around 300 copies of each game sold since launch. Not too shabby for a homebrew title, but this isn't a homebrew console.

[Cebus Capucinis]

 

VCS and Amico really have just become containment zones at this point.

 

I see we're back to arguing about who ate the most Crayons. I've always preferred a tasty bright orange highlighter myself. Has a slight fizz to it.

 

Also in before the dead horse of "iF yOu DoNt LiKe It ThEn YoU dOnT hAvE tO rEaD iT" or something similar like "DoNt PoSt In HeRe!!!!" gets flogged for the billionth time in the past 20 years.

[Bill Loguidice]

12 hours ago, stirrell said:

It depends on your definition of DOA. It exists... to me it seems like it is a decently-built mini PC with an Atari front-end. I would say that if seems like a reasonable deal as it is now, feel free to consider it. The VCS will get at least the Recharged releases, some more retro games for Flashback Fridays and a handful of games from indie developers. If you expect it to be even a marginal competitor with support approaching any of the bigger systems you will likely be disappointed. But as a casual gamer who also wanted a cheap box to run Windows, I've really liked it. But I would guess sales numbers are very low and that no long term support is guaranteed. Just my uninformed opinion.

Outside of the relative value, I generally agree with this. Even if all support stops some time in 2022 like I suspect, you still have a simple box that runs Windows or some other OS, so it's not like it would ever be truly useless. When I said DOA even before the public knew about the project, I merely meant that the basic idea was not going to appeal to the masses (and this was when the price point was sub-$200), so there was nowhere for the system to go once released.

 

I doubt it would happen, but one possible scenario is to spin off or sell the VCS brand to a smaller company and Atari is merely the licensor like they are with nearly every other project. That smaller company can then re-use the case and just iterate on the internals and UI/UX, which, if the operation is lean enough, could be sustainable. I just don't know if even a company as modest as Atari is will have the interest in continuing to invest in a platform that really can't grow much beyond current levels (10 - 15k or so).

[zzip]

On 11/6/2021 at 8:57 PM, Shaggy the Atarian said:

Sorry to hear that - I remember hearing some gamers say the same things about the PS4 and XB1 when they came out too. One friend of mine, a former editor of Gamefan Magazine (ECM), talked about how both his PS4 and XB1 were great dust collectors. Just because they were for him, didn't mean that they were for everyone else.

There were a lot of complaints like that during the first year if PS4,  but by this time in the PS4 lifespan there were lots of PS4 exclusives announced that weren't going to be on PS3.   Bloodborne was announced and only months away from release.   None of these games were playable on PC.    So now why is it exactly I needed to buy a new $500 box when just about everything on Sony's release schedule is coming to PS4 too and looking like it will eventually come to PC.   That amazing SSD tech that was going to revolutionize how games were designed?   Not going to happen if you still release the game on last gen.   Sony seems to be F***ing up royally this gen compared to last.   But a lot of people aren't going to realize that until PS5 supply catches up with demand and more people realize how underwhelming it is so far.

 

On 11/6/2021 at 8:57 PM, Shaggy the Atarian said:

That's why, as I've stated more times than I can count, that the VCS is a pointless product. It's a shame, I wish that Atari had made something worthy of the name, but they didn't. If I wasted the money on one, even at $100, it'd be nothing more than a dust collector, just like that stupid Atari Pong Jr. unit I got. At least that was free though. 

Like you pointed out in your post, it's not for everyone.    I don't understand what else Atari could do in in this day and age hardware wise.   If they produce something proprietary like an Amico,  they still have to produce a gaming ecosystem for it.   They don't have the resources to compete against the Big 3.   At least PC Mode gives buyers an insurance policy should Atari stop supporting it.  I've actually been surprised with the quality of games they've released to the Atari store, even if a lot of them can be found on Steam (most are decent games that get lost in the shuffle on Steam).   Still though I think the biggest appeal of this product are for the emulator/retrobox scene.   That's what I use it for,  it suits the need much better than a Pi.

[zzip]

23 hours ago, Bill Loguidice said:

 

I doubt it would happen, but one possible scenario is to spin off or sell the VCS brand to a smaller company and Atari is merely the licensor like they are with nearly every other project. That smaller company can then re-use the case and just iterate on the internals and UI/UX, which, if the operation is lean enough, could be sustainable. I just don't know if even a company as modest as Atari is will have the interest in continuing to invest in a platform that really can't grow much beyond current levels (10 - 15k or so).

As I understand,  Atari is a pretty lean company now.   How much leaner does it need to be or can reasonably get?

[Bill Loguidice]

5 minutes ago, zzip said:

There were a lot of complaints like that during the first year if PS4,  but by this time in the PS4 lifespan there were lots of PS4 exclusives announced that weren't going to be on PS3.   Bloodborne was announced and only months away from release.   None of these games were playable on PC.    So now why is it exactly I needed to buy a new $500 box when just about everything on Sony's release schedule is coming to PS4 too and looking like it will eventually come to PC.   That amazing SSD tech that was going to revolutionize how games were designed?   Not going to happen if you still release the game on last gen.   Sony seems to be F***ing up royally this gen compared to last.   But a lot of people aren't going to realize that until PS5 supply catches up with demand and more people realize how underwhelming it is so far.

 

 

I disagree with this idea and feel it's an antiquated concept. Sure, there are only a handful of PS5 and Xbox Series X exclusives, but many games play better on these new consoles, among all of the other performance benefits (fast switching, faster updates, etc.), so even if they continue to support the previous generation systems concurrently, does it really matter? The fact that all modern major consoles now follow the PC (and mobile) model of most games still working on an older system, but you get the best experience on the current system, is a big win in my book. Considering how modern games get made (standardized engines), little to nothing is lost with allowing backwards compatibility. There are still very good reasons to get the newest system to play the games in the best possible way and people can continue to benefit indefinitely from their software investments. I think the vast majority of people understand this concept on a fundamental level and the newest systems from Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo will continue to sell incredibly well, just like on the PC and mobile device sides, where there's NEVER a thought of their newest devices somehow running an app that older devices that are still supported can't.

[Bill Loguidice]

13 minutes ago, zzip said:

As I understand,  Atari is a pretty lean company now.   How much leaner does it need to be or can reasonably get?

I meant a company that can profit from games selling a few hundred copies and profitably support a user base of systems in the 10 - 15k range. I still feel like an Atari is not structured in a way to be able to survive under those conditions indefinitely. They have too many other interests to worry about/support. So my thought was that instead of Atari dropping support in 2022, they instead let another company run the platform and they just get modest license fees like they do from everything else. Basically put the risk on someone else who is better structured to thrive under those modest numbers. Anyway, just a thought exercise on my part. We'll see how things shake out in reality.

[zzip]

3 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

I think the vast majority of people understand this concept on a fundamental level and the newest systems from Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo will continue to sell incredibly well, just like on the PC and mobile device sides, where there's NEVER a thought of their newest devices somehow running an app that older devices that are still supported can't.

This was not the Sony sales pitch.   You can go back and watch the Mark Cerny talks about why they didn't just go SSD, but they went with the fastest SSD possible, and how it would revolutionize gaming.    Then there was the Unreal 5 tech demo running on PS5 that even Tim Sweeney of Epic said that not even current PCs could handle what the PS5 was doing.   So Sony definitely set the expectation that this wasn't just an incremental update like a new cell phone.   It would deliver things the PS4 simply couldn't.      Well I'm waiting.   Only the included Astrobot game seems to use the new tech properly.

 

 

[Bill Loguidice]

24 minutes ago, zzip said:

This was not the Sony sales pitch.   You can go back and watch the Mark Cerny talks about why they didn't just go SSD, but they went with the fastest SSD possible, and how it would revolutionize gaming.    Then there was the Unreal 5 tech demo running on PS5 that even Tim Sweeney of Epic said that not even current PCs could handle what the PS5 was doing.   So Sony definitely set the expectation that this wasn't just an incremental update like a new cell phone.   It would deliver things the PS4 simply couldn't.      Well I'm waiting.   Only the included Astrobot game seems to use the new tech properly.

 

 

Again, there are exclusives that do well with showcasing the system, but the point is, that's not the only thing the collective "we" worry about anymore with new systems. We have huge libraries that we can play - often improved - on these new systems, so actual exclusives are far less important than they used to be back when you could only play the new stuff. If you own an Xbox Series X or PS5, I think it's pretty easy to see the improvements from a user/usage standpoint even if there are only a handful of "I can only play this on this system and almost nowhere else" games.

 

The point is, more exclusives are indeed on the way, but the public statements - and I don't see how anyone can disagree with this - that if a game can still be made to work on a previous gen system, then why not? I'm not going to be upset more people get to play a game, particularly since my experience will still be the best as an owner of the latest stuff.

[zzip]

12 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

The point is, more exclusives are indeed on the way, but the public statements - and I don't see how anyone can disagree with this - that if a game can still be made to work on a previous gen system, then why not? I'm not going to be upset more people get to play a game, particularly since my experience will still be the best as an owner of the latest stuff.

But is it though?   Marketing gets people so excited over such small things.    Sure the PS5 can play some old PS4 games in 4K.   But in a living room setting where you are sitting a few feet away from the TV, you don't notice it so much-- certainly not while the game is in motion.   Faster loading times?  Maybe but chances are you put all your PS4 games on external hard drive to save limited internal space for PS5 games.   That's what I did so I'm not getting that benefit either.  

 

I didn't chase PS5 inventory trackers and pay $500 for a glorified PS4,   I wanted next gen gaming.   So far I'm just not seeing it. 

[Bill Loguidice]

11 minutes ago, zzip said:

But is it though?   Marketing gets people so excited over such small things.    Sure the PS5 can play some old PS4 games in 4K.   But in a living room setting where you are sitting a few feet away from the TV, you don't notice it so much-- certainly not while the game is in motion.   Faster loading times?  Maybe but chances are you put all your PS4 games on external hard drive to save limited internal space for PS5 games.   That's what I did so I'm not getting that benefit either.  

 

I didn't chase PS5 inventory trackers and pay $500 for a glorified PS4,   I wanted next gen gaming.   So far I'm just not seeing it. 

That's fine. It doesn't have to be for you, obviously. If you don't want enhanced framerates, can't "see" 4K, don't need the other audio-visual and control enhancements, etc., I'm sure you understand that other people do. And if the exclusives that are available to date are not to your liking, that's fine too. Again, more are on the way. I just can't agree in any way with your thought that just because a game is also available on a previous gen system it someone lessens the current gen version. Modern toolsets and engines are designed to take advantage of additional features when they're available on a specific set of hardware and vice-versa. There's minimal advantage in today's world to making a game exclusive to any single device, and clear disadvantages in terms of potential audience and profit.

 

Anyway, I think having over 400 games (and growing) released natively for the PS5 (and similarly for the Xbox Series S/X) and enhanced in some way over the previous gen in just under 1 year on the market is not too shabby, even if the actual exclusives are a fraction of that. It's almost never all sunshine and smiles in the first year of any console launch, but I think we're doing pretty well all things considered (pandemic and other issues) and relative to past releases.

[Draxxon]

I just wanna say, things change over time. Companies change and are bought and sold all the time.

 

About the whole, nothing is "real" Atari anymore... I understand the thinking behind it, but, I don't get it. It's not like some Atari Jaguar Duo or Panther console is going to come out. We aren't going to get that 3D cosmos handheld. While I even understand why a purist looks down on a flashback, but now the VCS too?  This is as "real" as its going to get. 

I wonder... what kind of Atari system must come out for hardcore fans to accept it as "real". I don't believe shitting on the VCS is gonna help make that to happen. Like someone at the "real" Atari headquarters somewhere in 1993 is going to say "HEY! These AtariAge people in the future HATE the fucking VCS, maybe we should make a "REAL" console!"

Here is how I personally feel about current consoles:

 

1) Atari VCS (As Real as its going to get)

2) Atari Flashback X (Real Atari, but they are "fake" plug and play systems)

3) Atari Pi 3 from Microcenter (The case is Real Atari, but it's a Pi)

4) RetroN77 (Not Real, but still widely liked here at AA???)

I don't own the VCS yet, but at some point I will get one.

just my thoughts, carry on.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Draxxon

[+GoldLeader]

21 minutes ago, Draxxon said:

I just wanna say, things change over time. Companies change and are bought and sold all the time.

 

About the whole, nothing is "real" Atari anymore... I understand the thinking behind it, but, I don't get it. It's not like some Atari Jaguar Duo or Panther console is going to come out. We aren't going to get that 3D cosmos handheld. While I even understand why a purist looks down on a flashback, but now the VCS too?  This is as "real" as its going to get. 

I wonder... what kind of Atari system must come out for hardcore fans to accept it as "real". I don't believe shitting on the VCS is gonna help make that to happen. Like someone at the "real" Atari headquarters somewhere in 1993 is going to say "HEY! These AtariAge people in the future HATE the fucking VCS, maybe we should make a "REAL" console!"

just my thoughts, carry on.

P.S. people seemed to Loooooove the RetroN77 around here... that's about as "un-real" as it gets. lol.

 

I definitely Love my RetroN77,...

 

And to my knowledge Hyperkin didn't rip off Curt Vendel for $90,000+ before his death, didn't try to rip off the folks who made the joystick for it, didn't claim to be the  "Real" anything, didn't call it a VCS or a 2600, nor muddy the waters on what they were trying to sell with trickery and "For Illustration Purposes Only" added after the  fact, or crowdfund it changing goalposts and ripping off engineers all the while dragging a once beloved company name and iconography through the mud whilst suing anyone they could for any reason they could...

 

And no offense,  If you think all the hate (For THIS company) comes from the release of a console (Oh wait!  an Unconsole), you're right!  You don't get it. 

[Bill Loguidice]

27 minutes ago, Draxxon said:

I wonder... what kind of Atari system must come out for hardcore fans to accept it as "real". I don't believe shitting on the VCS is gonna help make that to happen. Like someone at the "real" Atari headquarters somewhere in 1993 is going to say "HEY! These AtariAge people in the future HATE the fucking VCS, maybe we should make a "REAL" console!"

 

I think all it would have taken was a system with a clear reason to exist. Again, the Amico has plenty of issues of its own, but their goal/mission/value proposition (right or wrong) has always been abundantly clear. Even something like an Evercade/Evercade Vs can justify its existence far more than something like a VCS and frankly could have/should have been the vision in the first place. The VCS is low end commodity hardware with nothing unique about it. And really, that latter part (low end commodity hardware) is no big deal - system power is not the end-all-be-all with this stuff - it's again that whole reason for the product existing. Atari never had one. Of course, none of that matters now. It's not a going concern for all but a select few individuals. The most interesting thing about it has been and will continue to be the discussions.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Bill Loguidice

[Draxxon]

1 minute ago, GoldLeader said:

 

I definitely Love my RetroN77,...

 

And to my knowledge Hyperkin didn't rip off Curt Vendel for $90,000+ before his death, didn't try to rip off the folks who made the joystick for it, didn't claim to be the  "Real" anything, didn't call it a VCS or a 2600, nor muddy the waters on what they were trying to sell with trickery and "For Illustration Purposes Only added after the  fact, or crowdfund it changing goalposts and ripping off engineers all the while dragging a once beloved company name and iconography through the mud whilst suing anyone they could for any reason they could...

 

And no offense,  If you think all the hate (For THIS company) comes from the release of a console (Oh wait!  an Unconsole), you're right!  You don't get it. 

I haven't touched my retron77 at all. It really doesn't have anything going for it. Just my opinion.

 

And no I don't get it, and apparently I don't fully understand the thinking behind it. I've seen all this before with the flashbacks, so im going off of that. I don't pay any attention to hoopla around stuff to much. If something comes out for sale, I'll most likely collect it.

 

TBH, I don't know anything about any of that drama, at all. I'm merely going off all the people that say its a case with an Atari logo slapped on it. You're taking things to a whole 'nother level. If these are the issues with the VSC, why the Hell are people bitching about price, available software and the authenticity of the case?

[Draxxon]

27 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

 

I think all it would have taken was a system with a clear reason to exist. Again, the Amico has plenty of issues of its own, but their goal/mission/value proposition (right or wrong) has always been abundantly clear. Even something like an Evercade can justify its existence far more than something like a VCS. The VCS is low end commodity hardware with nothing unique about it. And really, that latter part (low end commodity hardware) is no big deal - system power is not the end-all-be-all with this stuff - it's again that whole reason for the product existing. Atari never had one. Of course, none of that matters now. It's not a going concern for all but a select few individuals. The most interesting thing about it has been and will continue to be the discussions.

Bill, you know I love my Flashback, 1000% times more than the RetroN77. We just added 25 TURBO BASIC XL 10-Liner games to it today. The fucking Hyperkin sucks, and its not a real Atari system. In what universe is the Hyperkin not a crap ass knock off 2600 clone console that needed hacked? Just my opinion. I have heard for years how AFBs aren't real Ataris. Please understand that I wanted to jump in a conversation, that apparently I didn't know what I was talking about or the drama behind. I can respect that, in turn, respect my perspective and what I was really trying to say.

I don't think having a clear direction makes anything more or less "real". Maybe more accepted, and more successful, but not more "real".

So Atari is a shadow of its former self, I get it. Not the same people involved, I get it. Its just a branding name that gets licensed out and a logo gets slapped on stuff, I get it. People see these systems as sub-par, I get it.

As a collector, I don't get it. As a fan, you typically get everything, even the sub-par stuff. Maybe its completionist collector thinking?

Someone swindled Curt Vendel? That sucks. Well then he should have got a lawyer and went to court. Or he trusted the wrong people, IDK anything about it at all. And, I understand that he can no longer be with us.  No offense, IDK WTF any of that has to do with me and my Atari collection? So the company that rented the atari logo and slapped it on the VCS are douchebags??? That sucks, but it doesn't have shit to do with me. It's not going to stop me from buying one.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Draxxon

[zzip]

45 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

That's fine. It doesn't have to be for you, obviously. If you don't want enhanced framerates, can't "see" 4K, don't need the other audio-visual and control enhancements, etc., I'm sure you understand that other people do.

I can see 4K,  but the wow factor wears off within minutes as you realize it's still the same old gameplay as before.  There's more to great graphics than higher resolutions.  In fact putting more detail in the scene matters much more than raising the resolution.  

 

It used to be that raising resolution from one generation to the next meant something and was an obvious improvement.

 

 

But these days it gives us diminishing returns.   Every comparison video I watch on Digital Foundry looks like this.  And we are told that the new tech gives us a better shadow here, a better reflection there, more detail if you zoomed in on the eye and told we should be excitable about it.   None of this is noticeable once the game is in motion.    We don't pause and go through games frame by frame with a magnifying glass like the people at Digital Foundry do.

 

 

Problem is people are easily dazzled by specs that can be quantified.   Resolution is easy to quantify. Frames per second is easy to quantify.   Innovative gameplay improvements are not easy to turn into a spec.  How much detail is in a scene (which matters much more to making a game look good than resolution does) is also not so easy to quantify.    So I guess it's no surprise marketing latches onto the easy to quantify things and get gamers hyped for that stuff.   While the improvements that actually matter to taking gaming forward take a back seat to that stuff.  

 

So there are too many games that use the same gaming formulas that have been in place since the PS3/XBOX360 days or longer, but hey it's 4K now!   That may fool most people,  but it doesn't fool me.  

1 hour ago, Bill Loguidice said:

Modern toolsets and engines are designed to take advantage of additional features when they're available on a specific set of hardware and vice-versa. There's minimal advantage in today's world to making a game exclusive to any single device, and clear disadvantages in terms of potential audience and profit.

 

Exclusivity sells your hardware,  your hardware locks players into your game ecosystem.   You get a cut of every single game sold in your game store (not just your own games) and make money on your network services.  (Like PS+).   That's how Sony makes its money.   Not on their exclusive titles so much-  they exist to sell hardware and bring people into the ecosystem so they can make money in other ways.   And it's worked well, most Sony consoles sell over 100million and have 3 of the 5 top selling of all time spots.

 

So when they start putting exclusives on other platforms,  they are messing with the golden goose.   A lot of people are legitimately going to start asking why they should buy a Playstation at all when they can just wait and buy the game on Steam (Sony gets no PS+ fees,  and Valve gets the cut of all sales that Sony would in their own game store).   It isn't hurting them just yet because ironically PS5 shortages just create more demand for PS5.   But I do think once the shorages end and PS5 is no longer the thing to have, people are going to start asking hard questions about the direction they are going.

 

1 hour ago, Bill Loguidice said:

Anyway, I think having over 400 games (and growing) released natively for the PS5 (and similarly for the Xbox Series S/X) and enhanced in some way over the previous gen in just under 1 year on the market is not too shabby, even if the actual exclusives are a fraction of that.

What 400 games?    Wikipedia lists 441 known games, but about half of those are still unreleased.  Most of the rest exist in PS4 form or are remasters of even older games.  It isn't just lack of exclusives that is a problem, but lack of next-Gen cross-platform titles in general.   The handful of upcoming games on my radar are still getting PS4 and Xbox One releases.   So that guarantees no next-gen gameplay (just up the res and FPS, and maybe use adaptive triggers, but that's about the extent of it).   It was not like this last generation.   By one year in, many games were no longer releasing on PS3/XB360 and instead gearing up to take advantage of the increased power of PS4/XB1

[Bill Loguidice]

11 minutes ago, Draxxon said:

Bill, you know I love my Flashback, 1000% times more than the RetroN. The fucking Hyperkin sucks, and its not a real Atari system. In what universe is the Hyperkin not a crap ass knock off clone console that needed hacked? Just my opinion. I have heard for years how AFBs aren't real Ataris. Please understand that I wanted to jump in a conversation, that apparently I didn't know what I was talking about or the drama behind. I can respect that, in turn, respect my perspective and what I was really trying to say.

I don't think having a clear direction makes anything more or less "real". Maybe more accepted, and more successful, but not more "real".

So Atari is a shadow of its former self, I get it. Not the same people involved, I get it. Its just a branding name that gets licensed out and a logo gets slapped on stuff, I get it. People see these systems as sub-par, I get it.

As a collector, I don't get it. As a fan, you typically get everything, even they sub-par stuff. Maybe its completionist collector thinking.

Someone swindled Curt Vendel? That sucks. Well then he should have got a lawyer and went to court. Or he trusted the wrong people, IDK anything about it at all. And, I understand that he can no longer be with us.  No offense, IDK WTF any of that has to do with me and my Atari collection?

Yes, I agree that's a different discussion. I don't get the "real Atari" comments either. That's a moving target for a company that hasn't been whole since the early 80s. My issue was and always had been I like a clear justification for a product. And the Vendel thing I don't know anything about. I liked him on a personal level, but his life was definitely not a charmed one and he appears to have been screwed multiple times with his business dealings. Truly unfortunate all around, most of all though that he's no longer around.

[zzip]

43 minutes ago, Draxxon said:

About the whole, nothing is "real" Atari anymore... I understand the thinking behind it, but, I don't get it. It's not like some Atari Jaguar Duo or Panther console is going to come out. We aren't going to get that 3D cosmos handheld. While I even understand why a purist looks down on a flashback, but now the VCS too?  This is as "real" as its going to get. 

This has been debated since Atari VCS was unveiled.   Problem is, if change of ownership means it's no longer the real Atari, then Atari stopped being the real Atari back in 1984 when Jack bought the company and laid off most of the existing staff.   Some purists would say it ceased to be the real Atari when Nolan left.

 

46 minutes ago, Draxxon said:

I wonder... what kind of Atari system must come out for hardcore fans to accept it as "real". I don't believe shitting on the VCS is gonna help make that to happen. Like someone at the "real" Atari headquarters somewhere in 1993 is going to say "HEY! These AtariAge people in the future HATE the fucking VCS, maybe we should make a "REAL" console!"

Some people seem to want something proprietary.   Why I don't know.   Then you are completely dependent on Atari to support it,  and that's a risky proposition.   The fact that it is built on mainstream hardware is a huge plus for me because if you don't like what Atari is delivering in the Atari store,  you can make it do virtually anything you'd like.   You don't have to wait on Atari for drivers or the community to reverse engineer them,  The hardware is all fully supported by Windows and Linux.   IMO this fact this makes it the most pleasant computer system Atari in any incarnation has ever released.  Once you install an OS everything just works.   No proprietary peripheral connectors, no buggy TOS implementations, no constant need to reboot, etc.

 

 

[Draxxon]

16 minutes ago, zzip said:

you can make it do virtually anything you'd like.

You don't say... lol. Actually that has been coming up a lot in my PMs lately.  

I kind of have a knack for taking Real Ataris that are sub-par and making them more fun. But, we aren't going to mess with the RetroN and I don't think the Atari Pi is going to be able to do what we want it to. The VCS just might.

So the question now is, find a cheaper, more powerful computer as the base of the project or mod the VCS because it is a Real Atari?

(Now you see why this thread caught my interest, the whole point of using the VCS is because its an Atari, we could use anything, really. But, if AA members feel its not real, then, that kind of goes out the window doesn't it?)

Edited November 8, 2021 by Draxxon

[Draxxon]

31 minutes ago, zzip said:

IMO this fact this makes it the most pleasant computer system Atari in any incarnation has ever released.

I would agree with this as well. We have been treating the AFB9/X as a computer. We have gotten around retroarch and can run full emulators and executables now. We are limited by it. Its a tiny cheap SBC, but not so cheap anymore. You cant find them for $30 dollars easily nowadays.

We are ready to port our community project to another system, just as is it. We want Atari ST and possibly Jaguar support. We want keyboard and controllers with multi button support. It's going to happen. But what will we use for the base? Pi4? MiSTer? VCS? something else? IDK yet. But I like the idea of using an actual Atari for the base so we don't have to design a case.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Draxxon

[zzip]

1 minute ago, Draxxon said:

We are ready to port our community project to another system, just as is it. We want Atari ST and possibly Jaguar support. We want keyboard and controllers with multi button support. It's going to happen, but what will we use for the base. Pi4? MiSTer? VCS? something else? IDK yet. But I like the idea of using an actual Atari for the base so we don't have to design a case.

And I think that definitely makes this system more appealing as a retro system than many others.   The fact that it can legally use the Atari name and design, and is fairly powerful especially compared to a Pi3 (Atari branded or not)

[Draxxon]

The biggest issue with the VCS is, what's gonna happen when I stick the entire 7800 library on it, that's probably bad for business, right?

I also wonder how AtGames is going to feel seeing the Flashback Menu and UI running on other devices, I bet they DGAF.  
(Bill did get kind of quiet tho, didn't he? Hahaha.)

 

Edited November 8, 2021 by Draxxon

[Draxxon]

1 hour ago, Bill Loguidice said:

 

I think all it would have taken was a system with a clear reason to exist.

In my opinion, the clear reason that this system was to exist, was to sell it to the longtime fans that have been wishing for a new console to buy/collect for many years now. The ones that go out of their way to buy Jaguars for $500 bucks, or all 11 or 12 Flashbacks. lmmfao.

If they can nickel and dime you to death by selling you your old 7800 games all over again for $3 dollars a pop, then that's cool too. It takes zero effort.

Any new games that cost money to make need to go on Steam as well, so you know, lots of users can see and buy them. Which means its purpose is not to sell you exclusives, so, that isn't the reason either.

Money Grab. That's obviously the clear reason @Bill Loguidice, but they can't say that. I think that's why all the attacks on its NOT REAL ATARI!!!! Because that is exactly its purpose and what it has going for it. That's why the extra attention to the case. You mess around with it for a year, or two or three if your lucky, and then it goes into storage or on a shelf next to a Jaguar, IDK man. It's a "modern, playable shelf piece", if it needs a label, lol.

This is all coming from my collector side. Again, who it was aimed for and its purpose, I think. As a gamer, IDK, get the new controllers and use them on steam if that's possible, you don't need the VCS at all. Save some money and still get to experience the games and controllers, right? And I think this is the actual breaking point of all the drama. Collectors who have been waiting for a new console to collect will love it, gamers who want to actually, you know, play the games, won't need it, or see any value in it whatsoever. I can see both sides, I wonder why others can't.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Draxxon