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The Atari VCS Controversies Thread

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How dare you ask a legitimate question rather than kissing their asses saying what a wonderful project this is.

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This is another reason most of us here are pissed at faux-Tari.  They have had this exact behaviour since day one.  No transparency at all.  Negative comment, delete it.  Negative question, delete it.  State the facts, delete it.

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... and why I don’t think I will bother taking mine out of the box ... the entire FArtari censorship and utter disregard and contempt for those that dare question their holy artifact is delusional and not something I want to continue exposing myself to.

 

I just know that plugging the thing in is going to lead hours, days and weeks of trouble shooting with a bunch of asshats too impressed with their own masturbatory skills when praying to their holy artifact. 

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1 hour ago, Oscar Manuel Rojas Maillo said:

And that ban came after another comment which was not even a reply to the moderator. Some other user notice the tag/lable/d-hat

 

image.thumb.png.5e46fae8cf0e565be78bf3fa6d4fdaad.png

I’d also suggest it’s an IGG Fanatic exacting revenge ... Moz is Idiot or one of the Wormy brothers ... it’s why I used a completely different username as these fools are obsessed with extracting revenge on FArtari Heritcs.

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1 minute ago, 2600 Forever said:

This whole forum is turning into a full-on shit show of crybabies, always protected by the "establishment".  Sad really, used to be fun around here.  Now it's all about "Don't say anything bad, it makes AA look bad.".

 

Oh well, was a fun ride, while it lasted.  Continue to argue over pointless shit, seems to be the IN thing to do here now.

 

I am sure my post will be deleted in no time and it will prove my point.  Critical thinking is passe, buy, consume and obey are the rules.

 

Flame on.   👎 

Or how about just getting sick of the toxic discussion about the Atari VCS?  If you can't discuss the Atari VCS without contributing positively to the thread (that is, not trolling), then, yeah, that's not going to be welcome.

 

You talk about the "establishment" as if it's some big gestapo looking to put everyone down. Give me a break, it's a video game forum that overall is lightly moderated compared to most forums I've visited.  I'd prefer that discussions be friendly, versus some of the toxicity I've seen revolving around this console.  And please point to where I've ever stated, "Don't say anything bad, it makes AA look bad". 

 

 ..Al

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5 hours ago, Stephen said:

They have had this exact behaviour since day one.  No transparency at all.  Negative comment, delete it.  Negative question, delete it.  State the facts, delete it.

Which is why the alternatives, here and elsewhere, have flourished.

 

Atari:

 friends-ross-geller.gif

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12 hours ago, Albert said:

And why would you ask that?

 

 ..Al

You can only do the digital pee pee dance for so long.

 

To anyone saying it's heavy-handed moderating here: really? They allowed me back. If that's not a testament to patience and understanding I don't know what is.

 

On-topic: Some of these indie games are looking pretty swank, I must admit. Maybe if the VCS can just stop trying to be what it's not and just embrace the lower end market it will survive.

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On 12/19/2020 at 6:23 PM, The Historian said:

no one is going to pull out unreal engine for Math Grand Prix.

 

...is that a challenge? it would be funny to have a realistic Formula One racing simulation in some low-resolution RF-staticy odd-colored abstract racecourse world with giant numbers and operators (made of different substances) floating about or littering the track

Edited by hitbyambulance
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8 hours ago, hitbyambulance said:

...is that a challenge? it would be funny to have a realistic Formula One racing simulation in some low-resolution RF-staticy odd-colored abstract racecourse world with giant numbers and operators (made of different substances) floating about or littering the track

Agree 100%. Even the most tedious-seeming concept can be made fun. What you describe is basically the maths equivalent of typing-based action games that are still getting released these days.

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9 hours ago, hitbyambulance said:

...is that a challenge? it would be funny to have a realistic Formula One racing simulation in some low-resolution RF-staticy odd-colored abstract racecourse world with giant numbers and operators (made of different substances) floating about or littering the track

I’d buy that for my kids, for sure.  Hell, if the VCS went all in on edutainment titles I’d pick one up no problem. It’d be like a modern day Pico. 

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On 12/21/2020 at 8:08 AM, zzip said:

1984-  Atari is the king of video games.  consoles & arcades.  Their main competition Mattel & Coleco were leaving the market.  They have the option to license the NES and sell it as an Atari system because Nintendo was actually afraid of them.

 

This is the company Jack bought.   Yes the crash had wreaked havoc on the company,  yes it was a popular idea that consoles were dead, and computers were the future.

 

But the company was still in a good position to give Nintendo a hard time and maybe even keep them out of the console biz in the west.  But Jack decided not to buy the arcade division (where many of the Atari IPs came from),  and spent most of their effort on the ST and gaming took a back  seat.   This allowed Nintendo to come in and create those aggressive policies everyone hated.

 

Jack was always a computer salesman, and I don't things could have turned out differently under his tenure.  But had a different buyer acquired it or Warner never sold it, things would have been much different.  Perhaps future Atari consoles would be a success, maybe Atari would be one of the big-3 today.

 

And you need a strong marketing organization that has sufficient money to spend.

 

There are old artists still putting out new music today, and some of it is even good!   And others who haven't put out anything new in years and just tour based on their name and play the same old stuff,  Atari is the latter.   Maybe for the Jaguar they were trying to be the former.

 

That ship has sailed.   When Infrogrames first became Atari, they did have some newer, popular IPs that were now on the Atari label-  Rollercoaster Tycoon, Neverwinter Nights.   For awhile it did look like the second coming of the Atari brand name, but something went wrong and now they are just a shadow of that.   I would love to see an Atari comeback too.   But they just don't have the resources to make it happen.   They've figured out their name is their most valuable asset and they are trading on that and licensing it.    You can't keep releasing Mega Vault without diminishing returns.

As RacerX already pointed out, Atari wasn't in all that great condition in 1984. If they were, Warner wouldn't have fired Ray Kassar and been desperately trying to find anyone to buy the company off them. Hundreds of Atari employees had already been let go before Jack even signed anything, their new CEO had to come in to fix Kassar's mess, which entailed "cutting the fat." The company was losing millions of dollars for Warner, so yeah, it made perfect sense to let it go and find the future of the company elsewhere. They still believed in the arcade side, which is why they held onto that (for a while, they did end up selling it off to Namco a couple of years later), and Jack felt he didn't need that either. 

 

There was a lot more going on at the time though. Nintendo didn't single-handedly revive the video game market, which is what the Wikipedia version of gaming history covers. It was Japanese arcade developers in general that did so - arcade titles like Karate Champ, Kung Fu Master, 1942, 10- Yard Fight, Hogan's Alley, The Nintendo Vs. system, etc. were all popular '84 games that were bringing players back in the US. You did have US game makers doing stuff like Dragon's Lair, but overall it was the age of the Japanese game dev & their way of design, with a new way of looking at things and the NES just so happened to be the new carrier for that. I don't think there's a guarantee that had Atari picked up the NES that it would have done as well as it did, but we'll never know. Nintendo had a different culture with different thinking people who obviously made the right decisions at the time. But that's all 20-20 hindsight ;)

 

But back on subject to modern Atari - We're not disagreeing about them not having resources or the vision to become big again. I don't think it'll happen, not even close. The people in charge don't know or care about any of that history, but sure, they do think that they're still The Beatles or Van Halen or whomever. But that 11k backer number shows that if Atari were a band, the best they could do is pack a rural bar on a Friday night. The days of using those oldie hits to pack a stadium are long gone. But I know that analogy doesn't go all the way - like we've discussed, for game IP to remain relevant, it needs to have an evolution like Mario or Zelda or Sonic. Could Atari IP make the jump? Sure. Is it easier said than done? Absolutely. It takes a strong creative vision, lots of successes and time to build a franchise. Atari can't afford the talent needed to turn any of the old IP into something relevant, playable and exciting today (and it would take more than just dropping 2600 games into Unreal Engine, IMO). 

 

That said, they do have one IP that's huge and has been fresh - I've asked this a hundred times already, but why wasn't Rollercoaster Tycoon (their #1 IP by all the stats) a day 1 game on the VCS(AFAIK, they still haven't announced any RCT game as coming to the system)? A new and exclusive RCT could've been the "killer app" pack-in title they needed to get that initial sales boost. Just that omission shows how badly they misunderstand the audience needed to make a game console a success, as they're just looking at buyers of the Flashback. 

 

And to beat a dead horse more, when I talked to Eugene Jarvis recently, he made it clear that he isn't entirely interested in reliving the past - he would rather develop new concepts that push the envelope of entertainment further. That is more exciting to creators - and ultimately players - in the long run. Atari has no one like that to lead the charge, they just look at whatever is hot as a potential get-rich-quick scheme (Crowdfunding! Cryptocurrency & blockchain! Digital cards! Lawsuits!) and milks that for what little they can.  

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Meanwhile... we have great, super-experienced developers, developeing NEW IP for the VCS!
e.g. Tony Barnes just posted, and will update on the development of his new game.

 

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34 minutes ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

That said, they do have one IP that's huge and has been fresh - I've asked this a hundred times already, but why wasn't Rollercoaster Tycoon (their #1 IP by all the stats) a day 1 game on the VCS(AFAIK, they still haven't announced any RCT game as coming to the system)? A new and exclusive RCT could've been the "killer app" pack-in title they needed to get that initial sales boost. Just that omission shows how badly they misunderstand the audience needed to make a game console a success, as they're just looking at buyers of the Flashback. 

When was the last good Rollercoaster Title though?   I can't think of a game that Atari has that would make the system more attractive.   The real appeal of the system is that you can load your own games on it, in a console form-factor with cool retro-stylings.

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39 minutes ago, The Historian said:

AtariOS root filesystem wasn't encrypted

 

 

Huh... so it really is running on a PC!

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43 minutes ago, The Historian said:

AtariOS root filesystem wasn't encrypted

It's usually only a matter of time before new consoles get hacked, but I wasn't expecting it to be quite that easy.

 

Ah well, it's good news for the modders and those who just want to run it as a Steam or emulation box.

 

It's less good for anyone hoping to make money from making games for it though, as if that wasn't already enough of a tough proposition.

2 hours ago, zzip said:

When was the last good Rollercoaster Title though?   I can't think of a game that Atari has that would make the system more attractive.   The real appeal of the system is that you can load your own games on it, in a console form-factor with cool retro-stylings.

Rollercoaster Tycoon Classic is pretty good. Original series creator Chris Sawyer had a hand in it so it's quite faithful to the early games in the series.

 

Most of the other recent entries in the series seem pretty bad though.

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I had JUST seen that video elsewhere and was going to post it. I do find it interesting. Does this mean one does not even particularly need the specific console to enjoy all the great and magical things Atari OS offers 🤨🤔😀? Might anyone enjoy it using these methods on ANY low end linux box or perhaps single board computer? Does this make the actual AtariVCS console even more irrelevant? Or was this whole thing faked by some horrible TROLL HATER? 😛 THE MIND BOGGLES !!!! 

 

 

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Wow - can this amateur hour get any more, well, amateur?  This is almost at the point where it is sad to make fun of these people (faux-Tari).  It's like they are a certain kind of special.

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I saw also the video. There are a couple of points here, and we have to wait and see more.
It concerns me, and I look forward to a response from Atari. I'm a Linux sysadmin; I'd love to know.

Back in 2018, the then system architect wrote that the Atari VCS works differently to a regular PC
which load a BIOS, and then boots a loader and then the operating system. The VCS has 2 layers.

He wrote that the VCS boots into a hypervisor, before booting an O/S, either AtariOS or your choice.
https://atarivcs.medium.com/atari-vcs-product-q-a-1-b2017894c15d
The VCS is not in it's final form, so perhaps this is a problem, or perhaps they don't secure layer#2.
It does not mean that the eco-system will work, that keys are unlocked, or new games will work on it.

Also, any modern console is a computer - Atari marketed the new Atari VCS as a console/PC hybrid.
The whole point of the console is it's dual use, and it remains compatible with normal PC accesories.
The fact that a partial or complete AtariOS layer#2 could be installed on a laptop isn't anything crazy.

What I don't like about the Xboxes or PSwhatever is they are closed platforms I cannot tinker with.
There's no installing Windows or Ubuntu on them, although an older Switch can be hacked but it's
still a small Arm based system, and it's limited. There are also many Android on Arm consoles or
set-top boxes, with restricted hardware, like Raspberry Pi, with 2-4 GB RAM and SD card storage.
The Ouya was a small Arm-based Android system, and when it's one support failed, it all ended.

This mini-PC has a choice of R1606G CPU like an AtariVCS. It's also fanless, and multi-display.
https://www.onlogic.com/eu-en/ml100g-40/
This one is very very similar to a VCS, but just a bit less specified in terms of USB ports etc.
https://mitxpc.com/products/ibox-r1000

Before anybody rushes to judge if this is a mistake or part of the open platform Atari described,
we should find out more, or better wait. There are going to be a lot of updates along this road.
 

Edited by justclaws
A line about implications went missing in first version. :-)

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52 minutes ago, justclaws said:

Back in 2018, the then system architect wrote that

There's the problem.  Everything faux-Tari said has been an outright lie.  Two system architects left for non-payment.  This isn't some custom product (part console, part PC) - it's a piece of shit off the shelf under-powered PC on a barely customized motherboard.  The clowns at Atari couldn't tell their asshole from their elbow and the way you can tell when they are lying, is when their mouths are moving or their fingers are typing.

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19 minutes ago, Stephen said:

... they are lying, is when their mouths are moving or their fingers are typing.

What about hands down pants?

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