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The Atari VCS Controversies Thread

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10 minutes ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

Ah yes, none of us haters would have anything to talk about if it wasn't "fashionable" to hate on it

Yeah - I love how some people gloss over the lying, cheating, and stealing that was done during this project.  I am so glad I have been put in my place and told I only hated it because that was the popular thing to do.

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If you hang out in an Atari forum, popular opinions probably aren't your thing anyway.

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1 hour ago, Stephen said:

Yeah - I love how some people gloss over the lying, cheating, and stealing that was done during this project.  I am so glad I have been put in my place and told I only hated it because that was the popular thing to do.

Ha, Lying was more stretching the truth (delayed release dates?  Unless you are referring to something else.)  Cheating?  Whom?  I got what I paid for.  Stealing?  Also not sure what they stole? 

 

Maybe this is all my fault for not following the 1000s of posts in the Atacobox thread?

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3 minutes ago, leech said:

Ha, Lying was more stretching the truth (delayed release dates?  Unless you are referring to something else.) 

 

They lied multiple time showing fake gameplay (and then making excuses when called out).

 

https://www.kitguru.net/gaming/ryan-burgess/atari-vcs-faked-gameplay-footage-as-well-as-showing-a-port-the-creator-knew-nothing-about/

 

3 minutes ago, leech said:

 Cheating?  Whom?  

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/04/xbox-architect-sues-atari-over-unpaid-work-on-crowdfunded-console/

 

Tin Giant didn't get paid for the work they did.

 

Atari also don't bother showing up in court.

 

https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/03/atari_wages_lawsuit_default_judgment/

 

So, yeah, they lie, cheat, and steal (wage theft is theft). And you don't have to follow 1000 posts. You just have to be paying attention.

 

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10 minutes ago, 6502wrangler said:

 

They lied multiple time showing fake gameplay (and then making excuses when called out).

 

https://www.kitguru.net/gaming/ryan-burgess/atari-vcs-faked-gameplay-footage-as-well-as-showing-a-port-the-creator-knew-nothing-about/

 

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/04/xbox-architect-sues-atari-over-unpaid-work-on-crowdfunded-console/

 

Tin Giant didn't get paid for the work they did.

 

Atari also don't bother showing up in court.

 

https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/03/atari_wages_lawsuit_default_judgment/

 

So, yeah, they lie, cheat, and steal (wage theft is theft). And you don't have to follow 1000 posts. You just have to be paying attention.

 

Don't forget this is the company that sued Jeff Minter for making Tempest (even though he owned the rights).  Then they disallowed a finished VR version to exist on the PS4.  Then they showed fake screenshots using fake controllers, advertising the very game they sued him for making.  You can't make this shit up.

 

But yeah - let's ignore all that because hey, it has a cool logo and even an LED to light it up.  I'm just a hater because I follow the popular kids' opinions.

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3 minutes ago, 6502wrangler said:

 

They lied multiple time showing fake gameplay (and then making excuses when called out).

 

https://www.kitguru.net/gaming/ryan-burgess/atari-vcs-faked-gameplay-footage-as-well-as-showing-a-port-the-creator-knew-nothing-about/

 

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/04/xbox-architect-sues-atari-over-unpaid-work-on-crowdfunded-console/

 

Tin Giant didn't get paid for the work they did.

 

Atari also don't bother showing up in court.

 

https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/03/atari_wages_lawsuit_default_judgment/

 

So, yeah, they lie, cheat, and steal (wage theft is theft). And you don't have to follow 1000 posts. You just have to be paying attention.

 

Ha, nah, not paying someone for work is slavery, isn't?   Wage theft would be more like if you got paid and your ex wife stole all your money.  (Not a lawyer, but makes sense).  We don't know thw full story there anyhow.  Not defending anyone, but the dude from Tin Giant seemed like he was kind of crappy too.  Like they didn't want to pay him for sick time for him wounding himself for skydiving.

Yeah, got to say the T4k stuff was misrepresentation.   Lying?  Sure, call it that, but you can technically play it on the VCS (in alt OS). 

There was also some articles where they kissed and made up with Llamasoft as well.  Though don't know if that means any ports will happen as they don't write stuff for Linux, even though Minter mentioned he would at some point.  (Whether native to AtariOS or not, don't care, I would like to polybius in my Index under Linux).

 

Ultimately, in my mind yes, they fucked up.  Did some outlandishly stupid stuff.  But let's be honest with ourselves.  If we didn't pay such attention to the Chameleon and how everyone compared these two.  No one would have harld such a critical eye on them.  I did not follow the Chameleon, so probably thought most of their screw ups were doen to people not knowing what they were doing, more than any devious plot to screw people over.

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14 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Don't forget this is the company that sued Jeff Minter for making Tempest (even though he owned the rights).  Then they disallowed a finished VR version to exist on the PS4.  Then they showed fake screenshots using fake controllers, advertising the very game they sued him for making.  You can't make this shit up.

 

But yeah - let's ignore all that because hey, it has a cool logo and even an LED to light it up.  I'm just a hater because I follow the popular kids' opinions.

Pretty sure Minter does not own the rights to Tempest.  They also settled that.  He mist likely only owns the code for the games. 

Tempest is one of the few games they do own that is worthy...

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19 minutes ago, leech said:

Ha, nah, not paying someone for work is slavery, isn't?   Wage theft would be more like if you got paid and your ex wife stole all your money.  (Not a lawyer, but makes sense). 

 

You're obviously not a lawyer. In less time than it would have taken to move the goalposts to defend Atari's actions you could have looked it up on Wikipedia and seen wage theft is precisely not paying someone for work done.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_theft

 

And trying to muddy the waters about Wyatt doesn't work.  Atari also screwed Feargal Mac Conuladh out of money owed him and ended up settling out of court. 

 

I also noticed you only focused on the Llamasoft stuff with regards to lying. They also faked gameplay footage. Do you want to weasel-word that to "misrepresentation" as well?

 

 

Edited by 6502wrangler
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I'll admit, you may have a point on the Coleco Chameleon.  It did set the precedent.  But I don't see that as a bad thing.  We know the pattern and these faux-retro clowns don't deviate from it.  The chameleon begat the AtariBox, and the Polymega, and the Amico.  That's not even counting Raspberry Pi remixes like the Retro engine sigma.  
 

We observed that the VCS followed the pattern the Chamelon set.  That hardly puts the VCS in a favorable light.

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4 minutes ago, leech said:

Pretty sure Minter does not own the rights to Tempest.  They also settled that.  He mist likely only owns the code for the games. 

Tempest is one of the few games they do own that is worthy...

He doesn't. However, he wasn't originally going to release the game under that name, but rather TxK which isn't trademarked or even that obviously linked to the Tempest brand unless you're a fan of Tempest 2000 and 3000 enough to know their nicknames as T2K and T3K.

 

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1 minute ago, 6502wrangler said:

 

You're obviously not a lawyer. In less time than it would have taken to move the goalposts to defend Atari's actions you could have looked it up on Wikipedia and seen wage theft is precisely not paying someone for work done.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_theft

 

I also noticed you only focused on the Llamasoft stuff with regards to lying. They also faked gameplay footage. Do you want to weasel-word that to "misrepresentation" as well?

 

 

Ha, that was a joke.  We assume Rob Wyatt actually did any useful work for them.  He was supposed to be working on some sort of sandbox mode, and as their 'lies' were pointed out was never a thing.  So how much of that was his fault?

 

Basically the showing of t4k to me was them needing to show 'something' and having nothing else to show, so plucked the new version one of their most successful titles on the Jag.  But hadn't actually cleared it with Minter.  So shit was flung from both sides.  I just ate popcorn.

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5 minutes ago, godslabrat said:

I'll admit, you may have a point on the Coleco Chameleon.  It did set the precedent.  But I don't see that as a bad thing.  We know the pattern and these faux-retro clowns don't deviate from it.  The chameleon begat the AtariBox, and the Polymega, and the Amico.  That's not even counting Raspberry Pi remixes like the Retro engine sigma.  
 

We observed that the VCS followed the pattern the Chamelon set.  That hardly puts the VCS in a favorable light.

Yeah, the main difference is the VCS exists (at least for backers at the moment)

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For the record.  I do think they did shady shit, I am just trying to play Devil's advocate! 

 

Like some of the images where it appeared the cables were going under the cabinet, while playing games on the TV.  With the state that it was sent to backers with random things needing being wired vs wireless... feels like they really only started on the software side 6 months before sending it out...

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https://hardcoregamer.com/2017/08/08/atari-announces-llamasofts-tempest-4000/267356/

 

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It was a great game, but sometimes that’s not enough.  TxK was Llamasoft’s return to its flagship series and set the Vita on techno-neon fire, but the company that is now Atari had a few opinions on the similarity to the series it owns the rights to so, after some unpleasant legal issues, it never escaped onto other consoles.  That’s finally about to end, though, with the two companies having found a way to work together to make more Tempest-y goodness.  Atari has a series that, while created by Dave Theurer, has come to be defined by the Llamasoft style, and Llamasoft has a game it knows inside and out and can create better than anyone.  In the same way Game of Thrones is defined by George RR Martin, Tempest is now Llamasoft, so the only way for the series to progress is for the two to work together.  After a few months of hints, it’s finally officially on the way.

Guess it was an article like this that said they'd gotten things sorted to work together?  I mean that'd be great if that were the case, though from everything I've read in various places, Tempest 2000 was pretty much the pinnacle of the series.  I still want a Llamasoft Star Raiders, Llamasoft Breakout, Llamasoft ....

 

Actually we can clone sheep, why can't we clone Jeff Minter?  Pretty sure they're from the same DNA branch.  Fluffy and full of baaaa

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3 hours ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

Ah yes, none of us haters would have anything to talk about if it wasn't "fashionable" to hate on it. 🙄 Granted, you can say that when you ignore the various other flaws pointed out about it, but that must be "hate" because you don't agree with it.

 

If you want to watch gameplay videos of PC games, then there are thousands of people out there streaming that on Twitch and YouTube, providing far superior gameplay & visual quality than the VCS can manage (even with hardware mods). 

wasnt nobody pointing out flaws before it came out and they had it in hand, to you know, to experience actual flaws.

if you mean flaws in marketing, then yeah, i said that falls on them, is it just fashionable to argue about this shit, or what?

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3 hours ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

If you want to watch gameplay videos of PC games, then there are thousands of people out there streaming that on Twitch and YouTube, providing far superior gameplay & visual quality than the VCS can manage (even with hardware mods). 

Wait.... so you are saying playing the same game on the VCS and a PC, the PC will somehow magically have better gameplay?  I mean sure when your video card costs the same or more than the entire VCS (in some cases even after maxing out ram and sticking 1tb in it) than yes, you could say better video quality, but for most games (especially the target games of the VCS which are fun games instead of say Call of Duty.)  The gameplay and video quality are fine on the VCS. 

You are pretty much reaching if you think otherwise.

 

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2 hours ago, leech said:

Ha, that was a joke.  We assume Rob Wyatt actually did any useful work for them.  He was supposed to be working on some sort of sandbox mode, and as their 'lies' were pointed out was never a thing.  So how much of that was his fault?

 

Basically the showing of t4k to me was them needing to show 'something' and having nothing else to show, so plucked the new version one of their most successful titles on the Jag.  But hadn't actually cleared it with Minter.  So shit was flung from both sides.  I just ate popcorn.

They showed Tempest 4k AFTER suing Minter for saying his game was too close to tempest 2000 (he fucking owns the rights, he WROTE T2K).  Also, the lying bastards showed a game running on a WINDOWS only system, but acted like it was a native Linux (or Atari OS) port.  100% bullshit.  The controllers they showed were fake.  This is as devious as it gets.

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4 minutes ago, Stephen said:

They showed Tempest 4k AFTER suing Minter for saying his game was too close to tempest 2000 (he fucking owns the rights, he WROTE T2K).  Also, the lying bastards showed a game running on a WINDOWS only system, but acted like it was a native Linux (or Atari OS) port.  100% bullshit.  The controllers they showed were fake.  This is as devious as it gets.

Writing a game has zero bearings on if you own the rights to it.  He was contracted by Atari to do Tempest 2000.

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5 minutes ago, leech said:

Writing a game has zero bearings on if you own the rights to it.  He was contracted by Atari to do Tempest 2000.

Atari did not own the rights.  It was not in their IP collection.  Regardless - suing somebody, and then stealing screenshots of their work, while faking controllers, is absolute bullshit.  If you cannot see that, and you cannot comprehend why this completely sours me to the brand, then I feel bad for you.

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4 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Atari did not own the rights.  It was not in their IP collection.  Regardless - suing somebody, and then stealing screenshots of their work, while faking controllers, is absolute bullshit.  If you cannot see that, and you cannot comprehend why this completely sours me to the brand, then I feel bad for you.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WtRVWOgDyp3a9taKHU4zqIkjYrt5Db2I/view

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I think Stephen just has his wires crossed about the naming. Tempest 4000 was originally developed as TxK, which Atari had no rights to whatsoever. There was a demo of a PC version with VR support, but Atari sued to stop that from going on sale, as well as a bunch of ports to consoles. The result being that you could only ever buy the game for the PS Vita.

 

Another three years passed before the game eventually surfaced, renamed as Tempest 4000 and published by Atari. It's a very nice game, and far and away the best thing that Atari have published since the bankruptcy, but we never got to see that VR version of it again.

 

Also, much though I'd love to see Minter working with Atari to remake their classic IP in his inimitable style, I don't think it's going to happen. He's gone back to publishing under the Llamasoft label for his last few games, and they've all had VR support too.

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1 hour ago, Matt_B said:

I think Stephen just has his wires crossed about the naming. Tempest 4000 was originally developed as TxK, which Atari had no rights to whatsoever. There was a demo of a PC version with VR support, but Atari sued to stop that from going on sale, as well as a bunch of ports to consoles. The result being that you could only ever buy the game for the PS Vita.

 

Another three years passed before the game eventually surfaced, renamed as Tempest 4000 and published by Atari. It's a very nice game, and far and away the best thing that Atari have published since the bankruptcy, but we never got to see that VR version of it again.

 

Also, much though I'd love to see Minter working with Atari to remake their classic IP in his inimitable style, I don't think it's going to happen. He's gone back to publishing under the Llamasoft label for his last few games, and they've all had VR support too.

Yeah, I was sadden as he did suggest that he'd release polybius under Linux, but it hasn't popped up yet.  I have tried it in PSVR, but haven't tried it under my Index or Vive's yet.  Game is CRAZY!  I initially played it on my 3D TV, and even there it's amazing.

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5 hours ago, Draxxon said:

wasnt nobody pointing out flaws before it came out and they had it in hand, to you know, to experience actual flaws.

if you mean flaws in marketing, then yeah, i said that falls on them, is it just fashionable to argue about this shit, or what?

I guess none of us haters are smart enough to read and compare specs or notice that there's nothing unique about it, nor any software that's original on it. There are plenty more flaws that go beyond marketing, but it'll take some research on your part to figure out what they are, apparently. 

5 hours ago, leech said:

Wait.... so you are saying playing the same game on the VCS and a PC, the PC will somehow magically have better gameplay?...  (especially the target games of the VCS which are fun games instead of say Call of Duty.)

 

Ever heard of a little thing called "frame rates?" How about input lag? These things affect gameplay, particularly with popular fast-action, competitive titles. There is also the fact that keyboard/mouse controls outperform analog stick controllers in these types of games every time. Every real PC gamer knows this, but I get you feel the need to defend the VCS because it has that sacred Atari logo on it. 

 

What's "fun" is entirely subjective. It's also a poor excuse to pretend that the reason you don't have AAA titles made just for it is because Atari wants a "fun focus" for the thing. Get real. Every one of the VCS' competitors have fun games on them. Everything you can play on the VCS, I can play on my PC, where I will get a superior, smoother experience every time. Why would I change my mind on that, just because of that logo? 

 

Atari keeps saying that the VCS is for "streaming titles" but that's just as much of a joke. On the most popular streaming site right now (Twitch), I don't see anyone streaming their gameplay from a VCS. Why would they? Along that same line, no one would ever consider using the VCS in an eSports setting - because whoever was dumb enough to think that "just fine" would win the day would be slaughtered in a match and rightfully mocked for being so naive. 

Quote

  I mean sure when your video card costs the same or more than the entire VCS (in some cases even after maxing out ram and sticking 1tb in it) than yes, you could say better video quality, but for most games...   The gameplay and video quality are fine on the VCS.

You are pretty much reaching if you think otherwise.

Oh right, I'm the one reaching in a world where, right now, the standard in PC gaming has 4k120fps rates for games while running a whole slew of other techniques and features; yet Atari's little bit dumpster runs most 3D titles at 720p 30fps, low/mid settings, like we were in 2012 🙄 Maybe that's "fine" if you are content with 16-bit wannabe titles, you don't do modern gaming and you think that all PCs are equal, which is what it sounds like.

 

And as has been pointed out many times, there are many PCs that are about the same price as a VCS - maybe a little bit more expensive, although not really when you consider that they come with more on-board storage, more expansion features & hardware upgrade options, and already have Windows 10 - yet outclass it on the CPU & GPU. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

Oh right, I'm the one reaching in a world where, right now, the standard in PC gaming has 4k120fps rates for games while running a whole slew of other techniques and features; yet Atari's little bit dumpster runs most 3D titles at 720p 30fps, low/mid settings, like we were in 2012 🙄 Maybe that's "fine" if you are content with 16-bit wannabe titles, you don't do modern gaming and you think that all PCs are equal, which is what it sounds like.

Ha, I do VR gaming, and very well know that not all PCs are created equal.  And sorry, but very few games / setups will play [email protected] with highest quality settings even on the most powerful GPUs.  Some engines are just garbage, others are still trying to push the limits.  Like try to play a raytraced game at [email protected]  

 

8 minutes ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

Ever heard of a little thing called "frame rates?" How about input lag? These things affect gameplay, particularly with popular fast-action, competitive titles. There is also the fact that keyboard/mouse controls outperform analog stick controllers in these types of games every time. Every real PC gamer knows this, but I get you feel the need to defend the VCS because it has that sacred Atari logo on it. 

The thing about Frame rates is there is a difference between a platform game and a competitive esports game.  Guarantee no one is going to be doing any eSports on the VCS.  It's just not the type of system where there'd be a point in it.  There hasn't been any input lag for me.  Except on Antstream which... yeah last time I played on it, it was different per game.  Like Double Dragon was fucking awful.  I'm not going to pull any punches there.  Weirdly Gods on the Genesis seemed too fast, but it ran fine on the Amiga version.  So yeah, it's been hit and miss there.  But for the most part, and especially locally installed games, the VCS does perfectly fine on games.  From the AltOS side of things (I don't use Windows there so can't speak to that) but Linux runs perfectly fine, and it's capable of running playable games for PS2 / Wii / Gamecube era games.  It's also capable of PS4 level gaming (100% depending on the game, some will be garbage, some will run about the same as a PS4, little better, little worse).  This is from personal testing and seeing some others test some stuff.

 

Is it perfect?  No, but let's accept it for what it is, a low end system that is about right for 300-500 bucks (if you put money into RAM/Storage).  My video card in my PC (2080 RTX) literally cost more than the entire system, including controllers, and memory / storage upgrade, and I put 32gb and 1tb m.2 SSD in it.  So when you take that into account... yeah PC gaming is expensive if you want those [email protected]  I love how you assume I don't know what I'm talking about.  I practically came out of the womb with a computer in my hands :P

 

15 minutes ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

What's "fun" is entirely subjective. It's also a poor excuse to pretend that the reason you don't have AAA titles made just for it is because Atari wants a "fun focus" for the thing. Get real. Every one of the VCS' competitors have fun games on them. Everything you can play on the VCS, I can play on my PC, where I will get a superior, smoother experience every time. Why would I change my mind on that, just because of that logo? 

I can agree that fun is subjective.  What isn't subjective is that a single Call of Duty game is larger than the actual eMMC that the VCS comes with.  Hell, there is a large amount of my steam library that wouldn't even fit on it by itself.  This clearly is not what Atari is targeting.  They are targeting the new 'retro' style games.  They are targeting streaming services.  I personally don't like the streaming services.  The only thing I think Antstream has going for it is their contests and high score rankings.  BUT, the shit thing with that is that there are people ranked highest there that I'm pretty sure did not get there fair and square!  You know, when you see a game where the top three are in the 60,000 points, then the 4th person is at maybe 20,000, something sort of stinks...  but it's sort of a neat feature, that I wish something like FujiNet can one day support.

 

How much did you pay for your PC?  Maybe some people aren't as fortunate as you and can't afford a gaming PC.  What would be your base specs for a gaming PC?  You claim it has been proven that you can build a better spec PC for 300 - 500 bucks.  I can pretty much bet you can't, as the price alone for windows is 100, unless you can get a student discount.  You seem to not think Linux is a valid Gaming OS as you try to include Windows in your build.

 

Really the VCS isn't for you.  You've made it clear.  Cool.  It might be for some other people.  Cool for them.  I bought one for shits and giggles.  And because it actually seems to be the most 'open' of the gaming consoles, so I actually thank 'Atari' for thinking that.  And also for finally taking a chance on using Linux as a gaming operating system.  Valve tried it with the Steam Machine, but it failed for several different reasons (1 being price, another being that there wasn't a 'standard spec' chosen that developers could target.  Another being that not all PC games (as you mention) are geared toward living room / controller use.)

 

Onto the next bit...  Keyboard / Mouse is NOT always better than controller.  At least for me (that is always subjective).  Like how is say Tempest on a kbd/mouse?  It's like playing Missile Command on a gamepad.  Terrible experience.  Some games are just better with particular control schemes.  I hate First Person Shooters with game pads.  I can 'almost' play decently with the Steam Controller, but like a PS4 or Switch controller?  Ewww.  RTS games are another one.. simply just need mouse / keyboard.  Anything else is just heresy / garbage.

 

But third person games, or pretty much anything that supports analog movement, game pad.  Then again, something like flight simulators... HOTAS all the way.  Yeah, I'm a controller snob too.  Mechanical Keyboard: Check.  8200 DPI Mouse w/ 14 buttons: Check.  Thrustmaster Warthog w pedals: Check, Steam Controllers: Check... listing all the other adapters, controllers... hell I even have a Sinden Lightgun on the way.  Yeah, I'm mostly a PC gamer.  Is the VCS an utter pile of garbage that I regret buying?  no.  Hell, it's a portable linux box that's easy to connect to a TV.  I may even use it to host FoundryVTT if I'm feeling bored.  People do strange crap with their purchases :)

 

It's 1am now, so I should decide between drinking more Scotch and going to sleep, or playing Half-Life Alyx some more and hopefully don't wet myself as I get those damn lightning dog things after me...

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8 hours ago, leech said:

Ha, I do VR gaming, and very well know that not all PCs are created equal.  And sorry, but very few games / setups will play [email protected] with highest quality settings even on the most powerful GPUs.  Some engines are just garbage, others are still trying to push the limits.  Like try to play a raytraced game at [email protected]  Is it perfect?  No, but let's accept it for what it is, a low end system that is about right for 300-500 bucks (if you put money into RAM/Storage).  My video card in my PC (2080 RTX) literally cost more than the entire system, including controllers, and memory / storage upgrade, and I put 32gb and 1tb m.2 SSD in it.  So when you take that into account... yeah PC gaming is expensive if you want those [email protected]  I love how you assume I don't know what I'm talking about.  I practically came out of the womb with a computer in my hands :P

 

Yeah...that was my point. You made it sound like "PC" itself was nothing more than a fixed platform, that one can say VCS = the rest of PC gaming, when it certainly is not ;) I love how you make these silly blanket statements making such comparisons, then act like it's not what you meant. 

 

The XBS/X and PS5 can also handle [email protected] - not on every game, but they can do it and they aren't outside of the budget you mention.  They also handle 4K video really well, while the VCS struggles and offers a sub-par experience. You should know that, unless you don't want to mention it since it once again shows how superior they are to the VCS, while falling in the same price range.

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The thing about Frame rates is there is a difference between a platform game and a competitive esports game.  Guarantee no one is going to be doing any eSports on the VCS.  It's just not the type of system where there'd be a point in it.  There hasn't been any input lag for me.  Except on Antstream which... yeah last time I played on it, it was different per game.  Like Double Dragon was fucking awful.  I'm not going to pull any punches there.  Weirdly Gods on the Genesis seemed too fast, but it ran fine on the Amiga version.  So yeah, it's been hit and miss there.  But for the most part, and especially locally installed games, the VCS does perfectly fine on games. ...

Keyboard / Mouse is NOT always better than controller.  At least for me (that is always subjective).  Like how is say Tempest on a kbd/mouse?  It's like playing Missile Command on a gamepad.  Terrible experience.  Some games are just better with particular control schemes.  I hate First Person Shooters with game pads.  I can 'almost' play decently with the Steam Controller, but like a PS4 or Switch controller?  Ewww.  RTS games are another one.. simply just need mouse / keyboard.  Anything else is just heresy / garbage.

 

But third person games...

We agree then - frame rates make a gameplay difference on a lot of games, particularly 3D ones. Controls do as well, which has some to do with software capabilities. Yes, Atari is pushing out as many 2D platformers as they can, although I don't seem to recall in any of their pre-launch hype that it was intended as the home for your 2D platformers. They're the ones who clearly stated "GAME, STREAM & CONNECT LIKE NEVER BEFORE" and now they're pivoting to it being "something different in the console wars" as Artz acts like you can't already stream with far better and lower priced platforms out there.

 

Are really old arcade games & 2D platformers better with joysticks/gamepads? Yep. Is that what most gamers are out there looking for right now? Nope. Everything popular at the moment, not from 1981, works better with kb/m.

 

As for 3rd person games, I just barely finished playing through the 2014 Tomb Raider on PC. In the action sequences, the precision of the mouse was very welcome and I was able to get plenty of headshots that I never would have managed using a thumbstick. 

 

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I can agree that fun is subjective. What isn't subjective is that a single Call of Duty game is larger than the actual eMMC that the VCS comes with.  Hell, there is a large amount of my steam library that wouldn't even fit on it by itself.

That has nothing to do with fun, just is a limitation of the VCS that was done to save a buck.

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 This clearly is not what Atari is targeting.  They are targeting the new 'retro' style games.  They are targeting streaming services.  I personally don't like the streaming services.  The only thing I think Antstream has going for it is their contests and high score rankings.  BUT, the shit thing with that is that there are people ranked highest there that I'm pretty sure did not get there fair and square!  You know, when you see a game where the top three are in the 60,000 points, then the 4th person is at maybe 20,000, something sort of stinks...  but it's sort of a neat feature, that I wish something like FujiNet can one day support.

Per the latest interviews, Michael Artz keeps hyping streaming up, while acting like PC mode makes it so that people will actually do office work on the thing, hence you should buy it over a PS5. I guess he has to try and make it seem like there's some magical value there.

 

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How much did you pay for your PC?  Maybe some people aren't as fortunate as you and can't afford a gaming PC.  What would be your base specs for a gaming PC?  You claim it has been proven that you can build a better spec PC for 300 - 500 bucks.  I can pretty much bet you can't, as the price alone for windows is 100, unless you can get a student discount.  You seem to not think Linux is a valid Gaming OS as you try to include Windows in your build.

About $600. Yeah, not everyone can afford that - heck, I can't really afford that right now, so good thing I bought it well before the pandemic started. But it can run circles around the VCS without breaking a sweat, also being a Ryzen CPU and Vega GPU, being able to run a variety of recent games that no one has even been able to boot up on the VCS, it has several times the storage space and I can upgrade my CPU/GPU well down the road when it's needed. It handles everything I've thrown at it so far with high or ultra high settings.

 

I never said anything about Linux here, but what OS will the general public look for so they can play certain games? W10. I can take my existing W10 PC and easily add Linux to it for Linux gaming, without spending a dime. I find that amusing though since as you pointed out, W10 is an extra cost, something that seems to be glossed over when talking about the VCS doing this or that at the greatest impulse buy price the world has ever apparently seen (also in that you need more storage and more RAM - suddenly the VCS isn't so competitive in that regard anymore, is it?).

 

As for building a better spec PC, there are a lot of great options out there that one can find after a few minute search. CPUWIZ has also pointed out some mini-PCs that are better specwise in this and the taco thread. Have you looked at the R1606G+Vega 3 compared to anything else? It's a fly fart in the wind compared to the many options out there that you can build or buy. Not to mention that the latest Xbox & PS are priced the same or better and are vastly more powerful. Big whoop, you can't use them to run your Steam client, even though they mimic a lot of the same games through their stores (last gen you could even print documents from your XB1). Again, you guys & Artz keep acting like PC mode is the greatest innovation in console history when really:

 

See Nobody Cares GIF - See NobodyCares NotABigDeal GIFs

 

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Really the VCS isn't for you.  You've made it clear.  Cool.  It might be for some other people.  Cool for them.  I bought one for shits and giggles.  And because it actually seems to be the most 'open' of the gaming consoles, so I actually thank 'Atari' for thinking that.  And also for finally taking a chance on using Linux as a gaming operating system.  Valve tried it with the Steam Machine, but it failed for several different reasons (1 being price, another being that there wasn't a 'standard spec' chosen that developers could target.  Another being that not all PC games (as you mention) are geared toward living room / controller use.)

Thank Rob Wyatt, who Atari didn't want to pay for his work and ideas, which was to basically try out the Steam Machine model and hope that the logo would drag it over the grand finish line of shipping out to IGG backers, something they didn't do with the Gameband.

Edited by Shaggy the Atarian
added comment on the XBX/PS5
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