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The Atari VCS Controversies Thread

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1 hour ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

Of course it'll be a moot "major selling feature" for the VCS once the Steam Deck launches, but now the Xbox Series X lets you play PC and Steam games on it too. Also, I recall a certain someone who had claimed over and over again that only the VCS has a web browser as though that was some yuge selling feature 💩 Well, so does your Xbox:

 

 

Yeah, but buying an Xbox and having to subscribe to their stuff gives money to Microsoft, and they have enough already.

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22 minutes ago, leech said:

Yeah, but buying an Xbox and having to subscribe to their stuff gives money to Microsoft, and they have enough already.

Sounds like you've got your work cut out in convincing millions of people to shift from the Xbox to the VCS then. If only that sweet backlit logo was doing the trick!

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6 minutes ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

Sounds like you've got your work cut out in convincing millions of people to shift from the Xbox to the VCS then. If only that sweet backlit logo was doing the trick!

Ha, if people want to sell their souls to Microsoft, I say let them.  Mediocrity tends to win for some reason.

I wouldn't care if they switched to the VCS, just switch away from the maker of Teams!

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Don't forget money to google now too. Android has Xbox Beta streaming game service straight from your xbox to your phone now.

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3 hours ago, neogeo1982 said:

Don't forget money to google now too. Android has Xbox Beta streaming game service straight from your xbox to your phone now.

At least you have a choice not to use Xbox streaming from phone or VCS. 

I actually swire to give as little money to Microsoft ever as they shafted me when I was a poor young ambitious writer by NOT selling just Word, and instead the cheapest option was Home Essentials which came with other crap I did not need... and then they released Office '97 a month after I bought Home Essentials and gave zero upgrade paths... nope, they wanted you to buy a full Office package... 

To this very day I have limited myself to sometimes buying a controller (since they had the monipoly for a while on what controllers you could use in Windows).  Granted now I sit in Linux for 98% of my personal computing time.

People think the new Atari is scummy... look at what Microsoft has done to society!  They foisted Teams upon us... a program where they somehow broke COPY/PASTE!  I don't even know how you can even do that!  For months and months, if you attempted to copy a portion of a code block out of a Teams chat, it would paste the entire code block instead of the highlighted part.  I don't know if whomever did that thought they were being clever, or if they understood how evil that is...

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10 hours ago, leech said:

People think the new Atari is scummy... look at what Microsoft has done to society!  They foisted Teams upon us... a program where they somehow broke COPY/PASTE!  I don't even know how you can even do that!  For months and months, if you attempted to copy a portion of a code block out of a Teams chat, it would paste the entire code block instead of the highlighted part.  I don't know if whomever did that thought they were being clever, or if they understood how evil that is...

Teams is the least of my issues with Microsoft.   My beef with them goes all the way back to when they were trying to make Internet Explorer the only viable web browser, and thereby trying to force the Web to conform to their standards and make it Windows centric   That and their scummy underhanded business practices that would force the use of Microsoft products in areas where they simply weren't suited and there existed better alternatives.

 

That said,  they don't seem as bad as they used to be since Gates and Ballmer left.  I don't think they have as much power as they used to, and other big tech companies are a greater concern to me now.

 

I still tend buy "anything but MS" but it's mostly because old habits die hard.  :) 

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10 minutes ago, zzip said:

Teams is the least of my issues with Microsoft.   My beef with them goes all the way back to when they were trying to make Internet Explorer the only viable web browser, and thereby trying to force the Web to conform to their standards and make it Windows centric   That and their scummy underhanded business practices that would force the use of Microsoft products in areas where they simply weren't suited and there existed better alternatives.

 

That said,  they don't seem as bad as they used to be since Gates and Ballmer left.  I don't think they have as much power as they used to, and other big tech companies are a greater concern to me now.

 

I still tend buy "anything but MS" but it's mostly because old habits die hard.  :)

Yeah, my beef with MS has been since '96 or so.  I don't think they have gotten any better about trying to force things upon their users, or less lock in.  In fact it is worse now in some areas than they used to be. 

All the big tech companies are mostly about data collection instead of making good products.

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2 minutes ago, leech said:

Yeah, my beef with MS has been since '96 or so.  I don't think they have gotten any better about trying to force things upon their users, or less lock in.  In fact it is worse now in some areas than they used to be. 

It may be.   I don't encounter it as much as I used to.   They seem more open, and more willing to "play well with others" than they used to be.

 

But they seem to have kept the arrogance that they learned during the heyday,  that the public will simple buy whatever they ship.   That's the only explanation for how debacles like Windows 8 could be allowed to happen.   Back then people eagerly awaited the newest Windows and bought the upgrade in droves.   Since XP or so, there has been a lot more resistance in the public and organizations to upgrading to the latest version.   So when they ship something like Win 8 or Vista, it lands with a thud.

 

8 minutes ago, leech said:

All the big tech companies are mostly about data collection instead of making good products.

Too true sadly.

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16 hours ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

Sounds like you've got your work cut out in convincing millions of people to shift from the Xbox to the VCS then. If only that sweet backlit logo was doing the trick!

Xbox has had a web browser for some time now. PS5/PS4, Switch don't.

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1 hour ago, zzip said:

PS4 always had a web-browser.      PS5 has one, but it's hidden for some reason

https://www.tomsguide.com/uk/how-to/how-to-access-ps5-web-browser

Ha, I was going to say... I thi k even the PS3 has one... even the PS2 has a limited one.  Dreamcast has one, etc.  A web browser is absolutely nothing new.

 

Weird thing to see is the AtariVCS having icons for the entire Google Docs list of 'applications' right there for you to use.  So you could feasibly just hook up a keyboard and mouse, and have all the tools to write documents, do spreadsheet stuff.  Something no other console can do currently that I know of (out of the box / convenient way that is)

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16 hours ago, leech said:

At least you have a choice not to use Xbox streaming from phone or VCS. 

I actually swire to give as little money to Microsoft ever as they shafted me when I was a poor young ambitious writer by NOT selling just Word, and instead the cheapest option was Home Essentials which came with other crap I did not need... and then they released Office '97 a month after I bought Home Essentials and gave zero upgrade paths... nope, they wanted you to buy a full Office package... 

To this very day I have limited myself to sometimes buying a controller (since they had the monipoly for a while on what controllers you could use in Windows).  Granted now I sit in Linux for 98% of my personal computing time.

People think the new Atari is scummy... look at what Microsoft has done to society!  They foisted Teams upon us... a program where they somehow broke COPY/PASTE!  I don't even know how you can even do that!  For months and months, if you attempted to copy a portion of a code block out of a Teams chat, it would paste the entire code block instead of the highlighted part.  I don't know if whomever did that thought they were being clever, or if they understood how evil that is...

 

Yes, ...  But it is my understanding that if you Work for Microsoft you get PAID>   SO,  Tomatoes*, SHIT**

 

 

 

*MS  **Nutari

 

 

 

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There's a hidden browser on the Switch too:

 

 

On the whole though, I'd think that browsers have largely fallen by the wayside in favour of app ecosystems. That way everything can be designed for navigation from sofa distance with a controller, rather than giving an experience tailored to an entirely different class of device.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Matt_B said:

There's a hidden browser on the Switch too:

 

 

On the whole though, I'd think that browsers have largely fallen by the wayside in favour of app ecosystems. That way everything can be designed for navigation from sofa distance with a controller, rather than giving an experience tailored to an entirely different class of device.

 

 

 

How else are you to find cheat codes or walk throughs without built in browsers?  At least Nintendo has built in Bowsers.... 😜

 

Remember when you had to spend money on a hot/hintline if you were stuck in a game?  That is certainly one business type the internet killed off.

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5 hours ago, leech said:

Ha, I was going to say... I thi k even the PS3 has one... even the PS2 has a limited one.  Dreamcast has one, etc.  A web browser is absolutely nothing new.

 

Weird thing to see is the AtariVCS having icons for the entire Google Docs list of 'applications' right there for you to use.  So you could feasibly just hook up a keyboard and mouse, and have all the tools to write documents, do spreadsheet stuff.  Something no other console can do currently that I know of (out of the box / convenient way that is)

The Xbox Series S/X can use Google Docs and Microsoft Office as long as you hook up a keyboard/mouse, just like the VCS. 

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12 hours ago, leech said:

Remember when you had to spend money on a hot/hintline if you were stuck in a game?  That is certainly one business type the internet killed off.

I remember hint books with invisible ink.   You look for the part you are stuck on and use the included pen to reveal the hints

 

10 hours ago, Bill Loguidice said:

The Xbox Series S/X can use Google Docs and Microsoft Office as long as you hook up a keyboard/mouse, just like the VCS. 

I think he meant the shortcuts to Google Docs are right there in the Atari OS interface.   Which is kinda odd for a console environment.   I would think if you wanted to use the VCS in that way you'd just use PC Mode.

 

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1 hour ago, zzip said:

I remember hint books with invisible ink.   You look for the part you are stuck on and use the included pen to reveal the hints

 

I think he meant the shortcuts to Google Docs are right there in the Atari OS interface.   Which is kinda odd for a console environment.   I would think if you wanted to use the VCS in that way you'd just use PC Mode.

 

Yup, that was exactly what I meant.  And it is odd. 

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21 hours ago, zzip said:

PS4 always had a web-browser.      PS5 has one, but it's hidden for some reason

https://www.tomsguide.com/uk/how-to/how-to-access-ps5-web-browser

I'd have to guess that both the PS5 and Switch hide them because it's really not that big a deal (not that it ever really was, except for maybe on the Dreamcast where it was novel at the time) and you likely have access to the web from a plethora of other devices in your home these days. Although when you can't run certain apps natively on the platform, then at least it has some other use.

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22 hours ago, zzip said:

PS4 always had a web-browser.      PS5 has one, but it's hidden for some reason

https://www.tomsguide.com/uk/how-to/how-to-access-ps5-web-browser

The PS4 one barely works, though, and has all sorts of compatibility issues with web sites. The PS5 one is hidden enough to be not something you can really use. At least Chrome on the VCS works like you'd expect. 

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6 hours ago, zzip said:

I think he meant the shortcuts to Google Docs are right there in the Atari OS interface.   Which is kinda odd for a console environment.   I would think if you wanted to use the VCS in that way you'd just use PC Mode.

 

The Google app links are in the VCS Store, under applications. They're not "part of the OS interface".
The VCS is a hybrid console, and the benefit of not just any web-browser being built-in, but official
Google Chrome, built-in, opens up a lot of options, such as WebGL, web-assembly, and web apps.

These days, a lot of environments work via the web, and bringing these apps natively opens up so
many extra uses, but if it's not for you, don't install the "apps". Another user already posted that 
he'd completed his latest book written entirely using the VCS as a computer, much in this way too!

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There's a lot of new things going on for the new VCS right now.
Are those in this thread who are interested only in old topics, also interested in the actual system too?

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11 minutes ago, justclaws said:

There's a lot of new things going on for the new VCS right now.
Are those in this thread who are interested only in old topics, also interested in the actual system too?

I admittedly am not directly interested in the system or anything about it other than at an academic level. I thought it was destined to be DOA when I first saw it and nothing that I've seen has changed that perception from before it was a public project. It's nice though that it has fit a need for a small number of people and that there are some well-intentioned small-scale games being targeted to it. It's definitely a system for a select group of enthusiasts and hopefully they'll be able to enjoy it for a few more years with the emotional investment they've made.  

Again, on a purely academic level, I'm curious if there will ever be newer iterations of the hardware the platform is based around (I don't see why or how from both a "need" and practical standpoint), or if the end game is to eventually give up on the hardware and offer it as something you can install on any x86 hardware (though I don't see the appeal of that either).

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4 hours ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

I'd have to guess that both the PS5 and Switch hide them because it's really not that big a deal (not that it ever really was, except for maybe on the Dreamcast where it was novel at the time) and you likely have access to the web from a plethora of other devices in your home these days. Although when you can't run certain apps natively on the platform, then at least it has some other use.

But how will the "Netflix Moms" cope if they are hidden?

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10 minutes ago, Stephen said:

But how will the "Netflix Moms" cope if they are hidden?

I guess they'll just have to get by with using the app. 😄

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