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Mockduck

The Atari VCS Controversies Thread

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3 hours ago, justclaws said:

There's a lot of new things going on for the new VCS right now.
Are those in this thread who are interested only in old topics, also interested in the actual system too?

Is there any of that available solely on the VCS, or can I get all of the games on other platforms that I already own?

 

Until that changes significantly, which it looks like it won't, I'm with Bill. ;) 

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3 hours ago, justclaws said:

There's a lot of new things going on for the new VCS right now.
Are those in this thread who are interested only in old topics, also interested in the actual system too?

Yeah these ancient threads and the doom and gloom threads need locked already. Why are we still discussing Atari VCS controversy here? Not only does the console exist but games continue to be released for it and the console ecosystem has improved a lot since launch. That is a huge achievement for a small budget company in itself unlike Intellivision with the Amico and other consoles that either continued to get delayed or abandoned entirely like the Ouya and others like the retro VGS project that never made it. But hey i'm a guy that likes to see the glass half full rather than half empty.

Edited by Djmicklovin

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41 minutes ago, Djmicklovin said:

Yeah these ancient threads and the doom and gloom threads need locked already.

Disagreed.  All viewpoints should be accommodated, not just the ones you want to read.

 

If it bothers you so tremendously that someone may not think the same way about something that you do, then by all means feel free to find another thread to participate in.

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1 hour ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Disagreed.  All viewpoints should be accommodated, not just the ones you want to read.

 

If it bothers you so tremendously that someone may not think the same way about something that you do, then by all means feel free to find another thread to participate in.

Tell yourself that. You people don't have to come here if you don't like the VCS. There are plenty of other forums. And there's no reason to still be talking about old topics and beating a dead horse. There's plenty of new things going on with the VCS to discuss.

Edited by Djmicklovin

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1 hour ago, Djmicklovin said:

Tell yourself that. You people don't have to come here if you don't like the VCS. There are plenty of other forums. And there's no reason to still be talking about old topics and beating a dead horse. There's plenty of new things going on with the VCS to discuss.

But… this is the VCS controversy thread, not the new VCS releases thread. There are positive threads on here for sure. So, why stop people from expressing themselves? I still miss my TPB VCS thread, haha 

Edited by jerseystyle
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51 minutes ago, Djmicklovin said:

Tell yourself that. You people don't have to come here if you don't like the VCS. There are plenty of other forums. And there's no reason to still be talking about old topics and beating a dead horse. There's plenty of new things going on with the VCS to discuss.

Like it or not, this is a device that generated a lot of controversy both before and after its development.  Removing the threads detailing the many reasons why that happened or that happen to contain any critical commentary or would be equivalent to rewriting history so that you can feel better about your emotional investment in a lump of plastic and silicon.

 

Neither you nor I, however, have the final say as to what ultimately happens in that regard.  It would be appreciated if @Albert could weigh in on this, though.

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I might need to purchase a new VCS just because of all the controversy surrounding it. If I just needed another pretty piece of desk plastic. I really like the case design and the new upgraded CX40 with the blinky lights and built in paddle.

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8 hours ago, Bill Loguidice said:

It's definitely a system for a select group of enthusiasts and hopefully they'll be able to enjoy it for a few more years with the emotional investment they've made. 

Weird that you state it this way.  I could say I am emotionally invested in my Atari 800xl, as it is the computer I grew up with.  I could see being emotionally invested in my Amiga 4000 that refuses to be a friend...

 

But really have no emotinal investment in the Atari VCS.  At best it gets great support and becomes a sweet little Atari box with a perfecf display and controller for playing some old, ir old style games that are a blast.  At worse, Atari folds for the Nth time and I have a cool little Linux box!  Either way it is a win, but I don't think emotion is really tied to it.  Sometimes it just comes down to 'best tool for the job' and the VCS PERFECTLY fits that tiny space between where the Raspberry Pi is not quite good enough to run something, and not being this huge PS4/5 sized thing that you have to stash off to the side and the fan noise STILL gets too loud, where the VCS really only rarely kicks on the fan now and has a small footprint that sits under the front of the TV.

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1 hour ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Neither you nor I, however, have the final say as to what ultimately happens in that regard.  It would be appreciated if @Albert could weigh in on this, though.

Speaking of Albert.  Don't you love it when you order something from him while he is away... then completely forget about it and then get the notification that it shipped?  I am excited to know what I ordered.  It is like Christmas for the senile!

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Weird that you state it this way.  I could say I am emotionally invested in my Atari 800xl, as it is the computer I grew up with.  I could see being emotionally invested in my Amiga 4000 that refuses to be a friend...
 
But really have no emotinal investment in the Atari VCS.  At best it gets great support and becomes a sweet little Atari box with a perfecf display and controller for playing some old, ir old style games that are a blast.  At worse, Atari folds for the Nth time and I have a cool little Linux box!  Either way it is a win, but I don't think emotion is really tied to it.  Sometimes it just comes down to 'best tool for the job' and the VCS PERFECTLY fits that tiny space between where the Raspberry Pi is not quite good enough to run something, and not being this huge PS4/5 sized thing that you have to stash off to the side and the fan noise STILL gets too loud, where the VCS really only rarely kicks on the fan now and has a small footprint that sits under the front of the TV.

I’m not sure people aren’t emotionally invested after waiting for years and discussing it in threads like this one. I’m always a bit emotional about my purchases that take a long time to be fulfilled.
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Speaking of Albert.  Don't you love it when you order something from him while he is away... then completely forget about it and then get the notification that it shipped?  I am excited to know what I ordered.  It is like Christmas for the senile!

It’s the best LOL!! I’ve had that happen with Vectrex purchases from overseas.

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1 minute ago, adamchevy said:


I’m not sure people aren’t emotionally invested after waiting for years and discussing it in threads like this one. I’m always a bit emotional about my purchases that take a long time to be fulfilled.

Ha, I mean I felt excitement that it showed up, and that it is fun to play with.  And would like it to succeed, but mostly for reasons not directly to it being anything that I backed or that it is Atari, or that there was controversy.

It is more about seeing another love of mine succeeding to be utilized for the most random things, and that is Linux.  Most modern consoles are using some form of Free software, but most are BSD based as it has a license that doesn't force sharing, so companies like to just snag it.  Atari actually did a morally correct thing and picked Linux instead, so you can download the source code yourself.  Though so far I don't think they have really said what license thelayer on top is.  If they did a release of that and stripped logos, and let anyone build upon that, it would be pretty sweet!  Like the Red Hat method of development.  A bleeding edge version of AtariOS where coders could tweak and develop new interfaces on it, and then Atari could stabilize that and make it the version on the consoles...

 

Then ultimately if they got the library going, it could be that people could build their own AtariBox and Atari could just make a new game store that tries to full on embrace Indy game makers and be like a Steam-Mini...

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It's weird enough to spend all that energy typing negative garbage for years before a console is released that you aren't actually buying anyway, and doubly so to continue to do so for (almost) a year after it is released. All that wasted time on something you aren't even involved with is strange. Talk about unhealthy emotional investment! 

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28 minutes ago, Mockduck said:

It's weird enough to spend all that energy typing negative garbage for years before a console is released that you aren't actually buying anyway, and doubly so to continue to do so for (almost) a year after it is released. All that wasted time on something you aren't even involved with is strange. Talk about unhealthy emotional investment! 

From my own perspective, I sometimes find things interesting to discuss, particularly as it relates to the business side of things, even if I have no personal interest in the platform. It's a fun mental exercise to try and find out the "why?" behind things, and this is a particularly interesting case of "why?" from both the business side of things and the consumer side of things. I have no skin in the game with the VCS beyond that (disclaimer: I was privy to the earliest, pre-public pitches of the concept). So I don't consider it an emotional investment on my part, more an intellectual one.

 

Of course, like anyone, I'm completely irrational myself when it comes to some products, particularly products that don't necessarily have a genuine value over other products or what I already have. Case in point, earlier today I decided to invest big-time in an Evercade collection. It's something I don't need, probably won't use as much as I'd like (or presently think), and for all practical purposes shouldn't have even bothered with (one of the reasons why it's taken this long to purchase). With that said, I felt moved to support the licensing of such games and having the products with manuals, albeit modest ones. 

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3 hours ago, Bill Loguidice said:

From my own perspective, I sometimes find things interesting to discuss, particularly as it relates to the business side of things, even if I have no personal interest in the platform. It's a fun mental exercise to try and find out the "why?" behind things, and this is a particularly interesting case of "why?" from both the business side of things and the consumer side of things. I have no skin in the game with the VCS beyond that (disclaimer: I was privy to the earliest, pre-public pitches of the concept). So I don't consider it an emotional investment on my part, more an intellectual one.

 

Of course, like anyone, I'm completely irrational myself when it comes to some products, particularly products that don't necessarily have a genuine value over other products or what I already have. Case in point, earlier today I decided to invest big-time in an Evercade collection. It's something I don't need, probably won't use as much as I'd like (or presently think), and for all practical purposes shouldn't have even bothered with (one of the reasons why it's taken this long to purchase). With that said, I felt moved to support the licensing of such games and having the products with manuals, albeit modest ones. 

Tell me what you think of the Evercade, I have been tempted to pick one up myself!  And now that they have the console version, even more so.

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11 hours ago, Mockduck said:

It's weird enough to spend all that energy typing negative garbage for years before a console is released that you aren't actually buying anyway, and doubly so to continue to do so for (almost) a year after it is released. All that wasted time on something you aren't even involved with is strange.

OK, I'll bite.

 

I'm asking you this in all seriousness: did you actually read any of the analytical criticism that was written about both Atari SA and the new VCS before (or after) it was released?  Things weren't rosy before by any means, and after wasn't a lot better.

 

I am genuinely glad that those who spent their money on the units received them, but that doesn't make up for Atari SA's incompetence, lack of vision, or outright lying as regards the new VCS prior to that point.  Even past that point, Atari SA doesn't seem to be doing much to support it, and it's been stone-cold dead in the retail market.  Both of those were things that were predicted in the event of delivery, and both have come true.

 

To my mind, it's equally weird that a unit that wasn't even in production - let alone in any of the purchasers' hands - drew such a degree of defensiveness from its supporters when there was no objective argument to be made by them over the same period of years.  Tit, meet tat.

 

Quote

Talk about unhealthy emotional investment! 

What's funny is that pretty much everyone who was in the detractor camp has moved on, yet it seems as though there's a small percentage of pro-VCS folks who, for whatever reason, just can't seem to let it go.  I'm not going to speculate as to the reasons for that, but it does seem odd that for the apparent winners of this battle (sure, take that title; it's all yours) there's still a need to continue on as if everything is still where it was a year (or longer) ago.

 

You know how there's always that one person who graduates from high school, but never really leaves it?  That's kinda what this looks like from the perspective of everyone who stopped caring months ago.

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In response to x=usr and Bill, I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in.

 

I don't own a VCS, wasn't a backer, but I'm watching it from the sidelines, and have been since it was first announced as "Ataribox". All the skepticism and criticism for the device and for Atari SA is well deserved in my opinion. When first announced, I asked "who is this for?" In their original videos they had "Atari on" as if it would have the capabilities of the Connect for Xbox. Not to mention the constant delays, radio silence, being sued by two designers of the project, etc. Atari only has themselves to blame for all this.

 

With all that said, I have to point out the community has moved the goal posts themselves from "it will never launch" to "its a raspberry pi in a plastic case" to finally "okay, its an under powered PC" when discussing the VCS. I feel Atari SA has taken a 180 turn ever since Wade Rosen replaced Fred Chesnais as CEO, ditched casinos, television production and sidelining the whole NFT as a separate division (they'll probably axe this down the road as Rosen possibly hinted at).

 

Atari SA has made some positive moves the last several months with the recharged series, I've been playing Centipede and Black Widow on Xbox One, and they are a lot of fun. They plan on "recharging" Asteroids and Breakout later this year, and I think Rosen is right on focusing on premium games again for consoles and PC instead of free to play mobile games or non-gaming ventures.

 

Returning to the VCS, I doubt it will move past 100,000 sales or even 50,000. It's a niche system, but Atari is supporting it, and I have to give them props for the flashback Friday series they've started. If they started bringing more Atari emulation like 5200, 7800 (started here), lynx and Jaguar to the VCS, I'd seriously consider buying it to play on an "Atari" device for modern televisions. Legacy Atari systems are getting older, and unless you mod them, aren't easy to play on modern televisions. The VCS is essentially a premium "flashback" console with access to streaming services.

 

Again, it's a niche system that won't move a ton of units, but Atari is supporting it with updates, games, etc. The Coleco system was a scam, Amico is MIA, essentially, it could have been a lot worse for the VCS simply being a raspberry pi, but watching the teardown videos, it becomes apparent whoever was working on the system did at least CARE. It will be interesting to see if its still supported a year from now. I wish Wade Rosen success, because I think he has the right idea of where Atari should go, and I think the recharge series speaks for that. I'm grateful Fred ain't running the show anymore.

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9 hours ago, Nall3k said:

With all that said, I have to point out the community has moved the goal posts themselves from "it will never launch" to "its a raspberry pi in a plastic case" to finally "okay, its an under powered PC" when discussing the VCS. I feel Atari SA has taken a 180 turn ever since Wade Rosen replaced Fred Chesnais as CEO, ditched casinos, television production and sidelining the whole NFT as a separate division (they'll probably axe this down the road as Rosen possibly hinted at).

I feel like the goal post thing is a myth. A few people definitely thought it was never going to come out, but that definitely was not representative of most of the skeptics. As you stated, most of the issues were around the "why?" and the actual value of the thing in comparison to other options. Nothing has changed in that regard.

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10 hours ago, Nall3k said:

With all that said, I have to point out the community has moved the goal posts themselves from "it will never launch" to "its a raspberry pi in a plastic case" to finally "okay, its an under powered PC" when discussing the VCS.

To be fair, the reasons for that were down to Atari SA's lack of any clear messaging surrounding the specs of the device.  Bear in mind that at the outset they only had renders of the case, followed that up by demoing a device that couldn't do anything more that light up the logo on the case, and then finally revealed that they were using a low-end AMD chipset (which itself underwent at least one revision).

 

If anyone was moving the goalposts, it was Atari SA; those of us spectating (and commenting) were following the moves.  It would have been pointless to continue with the belief that they would do one thing when they themselves made it apparent that they were moving in a different direction.

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Here is what I think, the price was too damn high. I have 300 other ways to spend 300 dollars. Regular folks were never going to get one.

They preyed on collectors. People that collect consoles and Atari specific collectors will have to have it.

It can't be for gamers, because, the Atari Vault collection and the Recharged series are on steam. You dont even need a VCS to play those games.

Edited by Draxxon

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I like the “recharged” games, and releasing those 7800 games on Fridays is a great idea which I hope they continue. If I could pick up a VCS with the classic controller for 100$ I’d grab it at this point. 

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1 hour ago, Bill Loguidice said:

I feel like the goal post thing is a myth. A few people definitely thought it was never going to come out, but that definitely was not representative of most of the skeptics. As you stated, most of the issues were around the "why?" and the actual value of the thing in comparison to other options. Nothing has changed in that regard.

I saw a LOT of people stating that the system was never going to come out or that the whole system was a scam. Check out YouTube for some videos. And, to be sure, Atari was doing a lot of sketchy stuff and most anyone would have thought the project was further along when they launched the crowdfunding campaign. Even media outlets like The Register were very skeptical it would see a release.

 

As far as the why, you were privy to the pitch so I would think you'd have a much better idea as to Atari's thinking than almost anyone else on here. I would love to know what the company's expectations were for sales and how the results have measured up. I feel like people have continually given pretty reasonable answers as to why they purchased one. Whether or not you want to accept those as answers is up to you, I suppose. But I am not sure why you continually seem to act like there is no reason for anyone to buy the VCS over another product when numerous people have stated their reasons.

Why I bought one:

- Before purchasing, I looked to see what other mini PCs were available on Amazon and NewEgg. I didn't find the VCS to be very overpriced compared to other Ryzen/Vega mini PCs. I get that I could buy a gaming PC in a big tower with spinning RGB lights at a better price but I wanted something that could easily fit into my living room. Home Theater/Media Center PCs have been a thing for quite some time so I think that market is pretty well known. When people have asked for examples of mini PCs that show the VCS is way overpriced I have seen responses ranging from Walmart laptops, barebone systems and claims that you should get an old work computer and buy a graphics card. None of those seemed like conclusive proof to me. At NewEgg now, I do see that there are mini PC Ryzen systems at lower price points than when I picked up the VCS a couple months ago, so the market is shifting. Hopefully Atari can discount the VCS.

 

- At any price, the VCS has the coolest case I've seen for a mini PC, IMO.

- Having a real Chrome browser that allows me to install ad blockers or other extensions gives me much more flexibility than a browser for another console would.

- I am a Mac user for work and I wanted to have a way to play my Steam library. Playing it on the living room tv is even better which is why I didn't want to drag a tower back and forth from my office (or have a PC tower in my living room).

- The classic controller gives a really unique play experience for the games that support it. Thrustlander with the classic controller is amazing. Having a system with quite a few games that support a rotary joystick is not something common to other systems.

Honestly, though, can we just be honest and admit that if you go into a forum of users of a system and essentially suggest that the product is worthless or has no reason to exist, you are going to get pushback? Why are people feigning surprise and suggesting the people on this forum can't let it go when the fans of the VCS are only responding to others?

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22 minutes ago, jerseystyle said:

I like the “recharged” games, and releasing those 7800 games on Fridays is a great idea which I hope they continue. If I could pick up a VCS with the classic controller for 100$ I’d grab it at this point. 

For 100 bucks... that is basically a controller and an RPi 4 kit... with no SD card. 

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8 minutes ago, stirrell said:

I saw a LOT of people stating that the system was never going to come out or that the whole system was a scam.  

Honestly, though, can we just be honest and admit that if you go into a forum of users of a system and essentially suggest that the product is worthless or has no reason to exist, you are going to get pushback? Why are people feigning surprise and suggesting the people on this forum can't let it go when the fans of the VCS are only responding to others?

Yes, many people, including myself, were surprised the system came out. I’m glad it did. Given Atari’s behavior over the previous few years I didn’t think they could pull it off. 

 

I’m happy you are happy with it as a mini PC. That said, as a console is has had about the impact of a wet fart. Even in a parts shortage there are plenty in stock and they are getting discounted. 
 

The “not letting it go” is due to the controversy. Most people are ignoring the VCS right now. It likely won’t be around for long (Atari SA doesn’t have a good track record) so it’s possible you can pick up some cheap soon. 

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25 minutes ago, jerseystyle said:

I like the “recharged” games, and releasing those 7800 games on Fridays is a great idea which I hope they continue. If I could pick up a VCS with the classic controller for 100$ I’d grab it at this point. 

You may soon have the opportunity. 

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