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The Atari VCS Controversies Thread

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3 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

The Amico was supposedly around 15,000 pre-orders by the middle of 2020. I haven't seen updated numbers since, but then I haven't been looking for them. That was no doubt due to some of the early coverage and momentum, including retail partners and other announcements and promotions. I wouldn't be surprised if they're around 20,000 or so by now. I suspect whatever they've pre-sold is about it for now based on the lost momentum and sales won't pick up again until post release.

 

Based on the crowdfunding numbers, the VCS 800 probably pre-sold just under 10,000 units. Based on the ready availability to this day of units at BestBuy.com and GameStop.com, as well as having a small handful of units available in select physical retail stores and other factors like lack of discussions around it (outside of a site like this), maybe a few thousand more units (being kind) may have sold once it went live several months back.

 

Supposedly, the target for Amico to be sustainable is just over 100,000 units out in the wild, but they're targeting much more, obviously. They would likely need to have a solid launch and good word of mouth to pass six figures considering all that's happened since.

 

There's no word on what the break even for the VCS is. They may have already reached it considering the relative minimal investments they had to make. Again, there's no scenario that I can imagine that they suddenly get an uptick in sales. I think they've pretty much hit their maximum audience (at least before any potential liquidation, sort of the pre- and post-liquidation Jaguar sales). My prediction is support will be dropped some time in 2022 unless platform maintenance levels can be maintained without losing money (which is possible). I don't have enough info obviously to make any guesses in that regard. Either way, I don't see an updated version being released (but would be happy to be wrong with that as well).

 

Again, without speculating on the immense number of Atari superfans who somehow have yet to hear about the VCS, can you tell us why you think the system and platform is suddenly going to an unprecedented uptick in sales? In other words, what will the exact catalyst be?

Are you counting the pre-order cancellations…FYI…those have a (-) in front of them…FYI.

 

FYI…when you count them…they actually make the pre-orders smaller…being they are negative numbers…FYI. 

Edited by El Livo Cat
Addition & Subtraction

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1 minute ago, El Livo Cat said:

ditto…that other guy’s marketing campaign…oh wait…AARP magazine adverts…yeah…that magazine is in all the households with young kids. 
 

My bad. 

Why do you keep trying to change the subject? This is an Atari VCS thread. 

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Just now, El Livo Cat said:

Are you counting the pre-order cancellations…FYI…those have a (-) in front of them…FYI. 

Note that I edited my post. Even with any cancellations, the Amico has still probably pre-sold almost 10x the amount that the VCS sold to date. That's just not a winning argument on your part.

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3 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

Note that I edited my post. Even with any cancellations, the Amico has still probably pre-sold almost 10x the amount that the VCS sold to date. That's just not a winning argument on your part.

Oh…because of the storefront pre-orders…NOT…real pre-orders. You do know that the stores can & will hand those units back…and expect(receive) their money back?

 

Edit…if they go unsold…haha. 

Edited by El Livo Cat
Clarification

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5 minutes ago, El Livo Cat said:

ditto…that other guy’s marketing campaign…oh wait…AARP magazine adverts…yeah…that magazine is in all the households with young kids. 
 

My bad. 

Must have missed this is in actuality a Box A versus Box B thread, I thought it was merely a you being utterly delusional about Box A's future possibility thread.

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5 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

Note that I edited my post. Even with any cancellations, the Amico has still probably pre-sold almost 10x the amount that the VCS sold to date. That's just not a winning argument on your part.

Since I went back and edited and since the original version of the post was quoted, I just want to make sure I'm crystal clear going forward.

 

Based on the link provided, the Amico claim is "Over 100,000 units pre-sold to fans and retailers." Legally, they can't lie about that due to the investment nature of that particular campaign. Of course, the "...and retailers" is key and accounting that some companies do that I don't care for. Those are units retailers are committed to purchasing, but are not actual sales. So we're still looking at a big number pre-sold to consumers, but definitely not the 100,000 units it seems on the surface. 

 

Based on the best available data, the VCS is easily under 15,000 units. Again, based on what we know, they're unlikely to move many more beyond that.

Edited by Bill Loguidice
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2 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

Since I went back and edited and since the original version of the post was quoted, I just want to make sure I'm crystal clear going forward.

 

Based on the link provided, the Amico claim is "Over 100,000 units pre-sold to fans and retailers." Legally, they can't lie about that due to the investment nature of that particular campaign. Of course, the "...and retailers" is key and accounting that some companies do that I don't care for. Those are units retailers are committed to purchasing, but are not actual sales. So we're still looking at a big number pre-sold to consumers, but definitely not the 100,000 units it seems on the surface. 

 

Based on the best available data, the VCS is easily under 15,000 units. Again, based on what we know, they're unlikely to move many more beyond that.

What’s your stake in the other guy’s system? Are you an investor wanting to see the fabled 10x return?

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4 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

Since I went back and edited and since the original version of the post was quoted, I just want to make sure I'm crystal clear going forward.

 

Based on the link provided, the Amico claim is "Over 100,000 units pre-sold to fans and retailers." Legally, they can't lie about that due to the investment nature of that particular campaign. Of course, the "...and retailers" is key and accounting that some companies do that I don't care for. Those are units retailers are committed to purchasing, but are not actual sales. So we're still looking at a big number pre-sold to consumers, but definitely not the 100,000 units it seems on the surface. 

 

Based on the best available data, the VCS is easily under 15,000 units. Again, based on what we know, they're unlikely to move many more beyond that.

Also…you didn’t answer my question about the 11th Flashback? What’s the status on that?

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11 minutes ago, El Livo Cat said:

Are you counting the pre-order cancellations…FYI…those have a (-) in front of them…FYI.

 

FYI…when you count them…they actually make the pre-orders smaller…being they are negative numbers…FYI. 

Needs more FYI's, unclear who this information is for, I'm leaning toward this "your" guy.

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1 minute ago, pesh42 said:

Needs more FYI's, unclear who this information is for, I'm leaning toward this "your" guy.

If you like kiddie/hyper(scan) casual games…it’s for you. 

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10 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

Since I went back and edited and since the original version of the post was quoted, I just want to make sure I'm crystal clear going forward.

 

Based on the link provided, the Amico claim is "Over 100,000 units pre-sold to fans and retailers." Legally, they can't lie about that due to the investment nature of that particular campaign. Of course, the "...and retailers" is key and accounting that some companies do that I don't care for. Those are units retailers are committed to purchasing, but are not actual sales. So we're still looking at a big number pre-sold to consumers, but definitely not the 100,000 units it seems on the surface. 

 

Based on the best available data, the VCS is easily under 15,000 units. Again, based on what we know, they're unlikely to move many more beyond that.

Maybe start working on Mattel’s 2nd Flashback…that could be a real huge money maker for you & the other folks there + it’s been 7 years I see now. Maybe include bonus HyperScan games…that might help move units. 

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7 minutes ago, El Livo Cat said:

If you like kiddie/hyper(scan) casual games…it’s for you. 

Hyperscan sold about 10,000 units total, or close to that. By your own metric this was a rousing success and sales should explode any day now.

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1 minute ago, pesh42 said:

Hyperscan sold about 10,000 units total, or close to that. By your own metric this was a rousing success and sales should explode any day now.

ATARI is already well past that…so if you want to say ATARI > Mattel again & always…I won’t stop you. 

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1 minute ago, El Livo Cat said:

What’s your stake in the other guy’s system? Are you an investor wanting to see the fabled 10x return?

My stake is an academic one, nothing more. I don't see how presenting facts somehow means I have a stake in the Amico or anything else. Are you struggling to come up with an answer to the large difference in sales between the Amico and VCS? Is it because the Amico had a clear vision that they executed well (to a point, before stumbling) and Atari and VCS didn't and wasn't? I think so.

 

Do you have a large collection of unsold VCS's you're trying to unload? (see how that ridiculousness works?)

 

Just now, El Livo Cat said:

Also…you didn’t answer my question about the 11th Flashback? What’s the status on that?

I'm not sure what a potential Flashback 11 has to do with anything. It's no secret that the traditional plug and play market is not great these days with minimal retailer interest and depressed consumer interest thanks to an evolving market. I'm not sure it will ever really recover. The big focus is on the home arcade market, which, in contrast, is thriving. 

 

5 minutes ago, El Livo Cat said:

If you like kiddie/hyper(scan) casual games…it’s for you. 

Really? That's your argument? Who cares what the games are and who they're targeted to? It's worked up to this point. Again, it was a clear vision with a clear market that did gain considerable interest and obviously resonated with people enough to generate a good number of pre-orders. Why does that bother you and what possible relevance does it have to the VCS? We'll see if it works for the Amico long term, but the VCS has a very long way to go with no obvious path to do it to get anywhere near to what the Amico is doing. Again, though, they're not in any competition with each other so why does it really matter? If someone buys one or the other, it's not going to be at the expense of one or the other. The only relevant comparison is that one had a provable reason for its creation and the other didn't, and both have loose ties to past companies and platforms.

 

3 minutes ago, El Livo Cat said:

Maybe start working on Mattel’s 2nd Flashback…that could be a real huge money maker for you & the other folks there + it’s been 7 years I see now. Maybe include bonus HyperScan games…that might help move units. 

You have a weird Mattel fetish. Are you a child who was accidentally teleported from 1982? I'm sorry to tell you that the platform wars ended a very long time ago.

 

Are you ever going to explain to us how, outside of informing countless Atari superfans who have somehow missed the VCS news the past several years, the VCS is going to suddenly sell in droves? 

 

2 minutes ago, pesh42 said:

Hyperscan sold about 10,000 units total, or close to that. By your own metric this was a rousing success and sales should explode any day now.

Their mistake was not marketing to all of those unmarketed to Intellivision fans on the 27th anniversary of the console.

 

2 minutes ago, El Livo Cat said:

ATARI is already well past that…so if you want to say ATARI > Mattel again & always…I won’t stop you. 

Evidence? Source? Anything? We know for a fact it's around 10,000 units. Anything more is pure speculation. What do you base anything more than 10,000 - 15,000 units on?

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1 minute ago, Bill Loguidice said:

My stake is an academic one, nothing more. I don't see how presenting facts somehow means I have a stake in the Amico or anything else. Are you struggling to come up with an answer to the large difference in sales between the Amico and VCS? Is it because the Amico had a clear vision that they executed well (to a point, before stumbling) and Atari and VCS didn't and wasn't? I think so.

 

Do you have a large collection of unsold VCS's you're trying to unload? (see how that ridiculousness works?)

 

I'm not sure what a potential Flashback 11 has to do with anything. It's no secret that the traditional plug and play market is not great these days with minimal retailer interest and depressed consumer interest thanks to an evolving market. I'm not sure it will ever really recover. The big focus is on the home arcade market, which, in contrast, is thriving. 

 

Really? That's your argument? Who cares what the games are and who they're targeted to? It's worked up to this point. Again, it was a clear vision with a clear market that did gain considerable interest and obviously resonated with people enough to generate a good number of pre-orders. Why does that bother you and what possible relevance does it have to the VCS? We'll see if it works for the Amico long term, but the VCS has a very long way to go with no obvious path to do it to get anywhere near to what the Amico is doing. Again, though, they're not in any competition with each other so why does it really matter? If someone buys one or the other, it's not going to be at the expense of one or the other. The only relevant comparison is that one had a provable reason for its creation and the other didn't, and both have loose ties to past companies and platforms.

 

You have a weird Mattel fetish. Are you a child who was accidentally teleported from 1982? I'm sorry to tell you that the platform wars ended a very long time ago.

 

Are you ever going to explain to us how, outside of informing countless Atari superfans who have somehow missed the VCS news the past several years, the VCS is going to suddenly sell in droves? 

 

Their mistake was not marketing to all of those unmarketed to Intellivision fans on the 27th anniversary of the console.

 

Evidence? Source? Anything? We know for a fact it's around 10,000 units. Anything more is pure speculation. What do you base anything more than 10,000 - 15,000 units on?

Well…how about you give me the exact Mattel HyperScan sales figures…and then we’ll go from there?

 

FYI…those sales are done…they have been for over a decade…FYI. 

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8 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

My stake is an academic one, nothing more. I don't see how presenting facts somehow means I have a stake in the Amico or anything else. Are you struggling to come up with an answer to the large difference in sales between the Amico and VCS? Is it because the Amico had a clear vision that they executed well (to a point, before stumbling) and Atari and VCS didn't and wasn't? I think so.

 

Do you have a large collection of unsold VCS's you're trying to unload? (see how that ridiculousness works?)

 

I'm not sure what a potential Flashback 11 has to do with anything. It's no secret that the traditional plug and play market is not great these days with minimal retailer interest and depressed consumer interest thanks to an evolving market. I'm not sure it will ever really recover. The big focus is on the home arcade market, which, in contrast, is thriving. 

 

Really? That's your argument? Who cares what the games are and who they're targeted to? It's worked up to this point. Again, it was a clear vision with a clear market that did gain considerable interest and obviously resonated with people enough to generate a good number of pre-orders. Why does that bother you and what possible relevance does it have to the VCS? We'll see if it works for the Amico long term, but the VCS has a very long way to go with no obvious path to do it to get anywhere near to what the Amico is doing. Again, though, they're not in any competition with each other so why does it really matter? If someone buys one or the other, it's not going to be at the expense of one or the other. The only relevant comparison is that one had a provable reason for its creation and the other didn't, and both have loose ties to past companies and platforms.

 

You have a weird Mattel fetish. Are you a child who was accidentally teleported from 1982? I'm sorry to tell you that the platform wars ended a very long time ago.

 

Are you ever going to explain to us how, outside of informing countless Atari superfans who have somehow missed the VCS news the past several years, the VCS is going to suddenly sell in droves? 

 

Their mistake was not marketing to all of those unmarketed to Intellivision fans on the 27th anniversary of the console.

 

Evidence? Source? Anything? We know for a fact it's around 10,000 units. Anything more is pure speculation. What do you base anything more than 10,000 - 15,000 units on?

It’s interesting how you’ve made money off of ATARI but aren’t appreciative of that…I assume…truism. Did you lose money from this Flashback endeavor? 
 

If so…sorry.

 

Edit…that’s just common decency…FYI. 

Edited by El Livo Cat
Clarification
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6 minutes ago, El Livo Cat said:

Well…how about you give me the exact Mattel HyperScan sales figures…and then we’ll go from there?

 

FYI…those sales are done…they have been for over a decade…FYI. 

FYI, you're too funny with the trolling. What does anyone care about the Hyperscan other than for you to deflect off the questions you are unable to answer about the VCS? Hyperscan sales were probably around 10,000 like the figure cited, though obviously not all of those were during its prime sales period, but after close-out (parallels to the Jaguar). All we know for sure about the VCS so far is that it definitely sold around 10,000 units so far. I've no doubt a trickle of sales will continue for as long as it's going to be available at retail.

5 minutes ago, El Livo Cat said:

It’s interesting how you’ve made money off of ATARI but aren’t appreciative of that…I assume…truism. Did you lose money from this Flashback endeavor? 
 

If so…sorry.

 

Edit…that’s just common decency…FYI. 

FYI, you're REALLY funny with the trolling. My opinions about games and companies has nothing to do with past, current, or future business relationships. My opinions and thoughts are solely as a gamer with an interest in all aspects of past, present, and future platforms and everything around them. That's the way it's always been and always will be. I have decades of transparency about who I am, what I've done, etc. In turn, are you, "El Livo Cat," being honest about anything other than obvious biases and clearly trollish behavior?

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1 minute ago, Bill Loguidice said:

FYI, you're too funny with the trolling. What does anyone care about the Hyperscan other than for you to deflect off the questions you are unable to answer about the VCS? Hyperscan sales were probably around 10,000 like the figure cited, though obviously not all of those were during its prime sales period, but after close-out (parallels to the Jaguar). All we know for sure about the VCS so far is that it definitely sold around 10,000 units so far. I've no doubt a trickle of sales will continue for as long as it's going to be available at retail.

FYI, you're REALLY funny with the trolling. My opinions about games and companies has nothing to do with past, current, or future business relationships. My opinions and thoughts are solely as a gamer with an interest in all aspects of past, present, and future platforms and everything around them. That's the way it's always been and always will be. I have decades of transparency about who I am, what I've done, etc. In turn, are you, "El Livo Cat," being honest about anything other than obvious biases and clearly trollish behavior?

You think too deeply…and I don’t care about your opinions & I know you don’t care about mine.

 

You’re worried about something & you don’t like ATARI…got it. 

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Can we take a moment to appreciate the level of truly unique individual that bothered to go back and click on the “confused” face for each of Bill’s posts? Just…. Amazing. Slow clap my friend, slow clap. 

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4 minutes ago, pesh42 said:

Can we take a moment to appreciate the level of truly unique individual that bothered to go back and click on the “confused” face for each of Bill’s posts? Just…. Amazing. Slow clap my friend, slow clap. 

5 bucks it’s our Cat friend. 

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did someone just mention flashbacks?

the home arcade stuff is the future, but here buy the Legends Core or Legends Connect, its totally not a flashback. You can APL link a flashback to a Legends Arcade... but they dont wanna sell flashbacks, because the arcade stuff is the future. ??? WTF ??? The fucking legends arcade is a flashback itself, if you ask me. They didnt stop selling flashbacks, they stuck them in pucks and cheap ikea arcade cabinets and overpriced them. Oh yeah, you can still get that cheap ass namco blast unit, thats the future too, I guess. people loved the original bait and switch version of that.

So whats the clear direction for the Legends connect, to swap it into a pandoras box? Ya thats brilliant.

how bout you guys shelve that legends connect and that $150 Legends Core Max Flashback 2 and give us another real atari please. Put the legends connect in an atari branded case. This isnt rocket science. If you dont think it will sell well, sell it through your website in limited quantities. 

Also, didnt tectoy just recently blow through all their AFBXs in Brazil at $115 USD each?

 

Edited by Draxxon
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7 hours ago, Bill Loguidice said:

FYI, you're too funny with the trolling. What does anyone care about the Hyperscan other than for you to deflect off the questions you are unable to answer about the VCS? Hyperscan sales were probably around 10,000 like the figure cited, though obviously not all of those were during its prime sales period, but after close-out (parallels to the Jaguar). All we know for sure about the VCS so far is that it definitely sold around 10,000 units so far. I've no doubt a trickle of sales will continue for as long as it's going to be available at retail.

FYI, you're REALLY funny with the trolling. My opinions about games and companies has nothing to do with past, current, or future business relationships. My opinions and thoughts are solely as a gamer with an interest in all aspects of past, present, and future platforms and everything around them. That's the way it's always been and always will be. I have decades of transparency about who I am, what I've done, etc. In turn, are you, "El Livo Cat," being honest about anything other than obvious biases and clearly trollish behavior?

Here’s a thought…do you realize that nowadays there are products in retail that get paid for on a scan-through basis?

 

That means…the store takes in the product…zero money…and ONLY pays for those items once they have been sold. That type of arrangement “could” be the reason for the other guy’s retailer pre-order numbers. That would certainly be a significant strain on finances…making & then sitting on the product without receiving payment until sales are out the final door with the customer taking the product home to collect dust.  
 

Just a thought…no harm or fowl…sorry to anyone offended even the super cool* people.

 

*Edit…the ones who dislike ATARI

Edited by El Livo Cat
Clarification

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I'm almost tempted to buy an Ataribox. This thread has provided value and entertainment over the years. To think that djmcdonald demanded all critical threads be locked a week ago, and there's been about a page of text every day since then. I wonder if ha had kept quiet, would there had been so much activity?

 

The only things holding me back from purchase at this point is the price ($50 seems reasonable) the convenience (No in store units nearby because most chains won't carry it) and the fact that I have no need or desire for anything it offers (I play Dark Chambers on a real 7800).

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This thread is a train wreck. 

 

Anyways, I am most interested in seeing how all this plays out after the Amico release. The thing about the Amico I think is possibly most limiting (besides the controller) is the fixation on JUST providing PG content. Obviously it's working for them now and makes a great soundbite, but we'll see. Many of the games look very similar and one dimensional to me as well. I don't fault people for liking it and besides the obvious comparison with Atari because they are a "legacy" company releasing a new crowdsourced console, they don't seem that similar to me. Tommy has done a great job with marketing and licensing, and Atari did poorly on that. Maybe they can recover, but they failed the PT Barnum "give the crowd a show and they'll pay for anything" test. While the delivery of Amico games stumps me, they did great at drumming up support. 

 

The beauty of gaming today though is something for everyone. The Amico looks dull to me but they would accuse me of burning money by buying a VCS. Watching my brother stalk online forums to get a PS makes me laugh, as he did seeing a VCS in my TV console. I had a Flashback. It rocked. The VCS is more fun to me though. As denizens of the gaming world we all get a vote. Whatever, choose with love.

 

And I would offer that a mild marketing push after releasing 5-7 more games, a couple exclusive to the VCS, with a $75 price cut, around Christmas or just after, would do wonders for sales (though I agree with Bill we're talking like 20k total, at best). But obviously Atari (see thread) hasn't excelled at maximizing the marketing department of late.

Edited by Atarick
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