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The Atari VCS Controversies Thread

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7 minutes ago, El Livo Cat said:

What other ATARI games will be on that guy’s system? I just hope ATARI received most of their licensing payment upfront. 

Miner 2049er is now an Atari game apparently.   This seems to have been acquired by them some time this year.     But Amico is getting a new version of that game apparently, and so far it has not been announced for VCS.

Edited by zzip
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6 hours ago, zzip said:

Have you even read the threads???   You also contradict yourself in your last paragraph.

Yes, I've read the threads.

 

Please explain how you think "That's why people don't think of it as the real Atari, and someone who used to work at the company forty years ago turning up to endorse a product doesn't change that." could possibly mean that I think Atari aren't the legal owners of the IP, because that certainly wasn't my intention when I wrote it.

 

It's a bit like how Michael Jackson used to own Paul McCartney's publishing rights. Do you think that made him the real Paul McCartney? Most would disagree.

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1 minute ago, Nall3k said:

@Bill Loguidice do you think there would be a great proposition value for the VCS if Atari added Lynx and Jaguar games to it like they are with 7800?

I think it is a big missed opportunity if they don't.   It doesn't make sense to produce standalone flashbacks for these systems since they weren't as big as the 2600.   But something like the VCS could cover all the lesser known Atari systems.

 

But a lot of the speculation about why they added DOSBOX to VCS was they might be planning to release the DOS version of Tempest 2000 instead of the Jag version.   We will see.

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3 minutes ago, zzip said:

I think it is a big missed opportunity if they don't.   It doesn't make sense to produce standalone flashbacks for these systems since they weren't as big as the 2600.   But something like the VCS could cover all the lesser known Atari systems.

 

But a lot of the speculation about why they added DOSBOX to VCS was they might be planning to release the DOS version of Tempest 2000 instead of the Jag version.   We will see.

I'm curious if they would be willing to get the license from Disney and Rebellion to release the Jaguar AVP game.

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6 minutes ago, Nall3k said:

I'm curious if they would be willing to get the license from Disney and Rebellion to release the Jaguar AVP game.

My opinion is that's way too expensive for too little of a return on investment.

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1 minute ago, Matt_B said:

Yes, I've read the threads.

 

Please explain how you think "That's why people don't think of it as the real Atari, and someone who used to work at the company forty years ago turning up to endorse a product doesn't change that." could possibly mean that I think Atari aren't the legal owners of the IP, because that certainly wasn't my intention when I wrote it.

 

It's a bit like how Michael Jackson used to own Paul McCartney's publishing rights. Do you think that made him the real Paul McCartney? Most would disagree.

Because on one hand you claim that the "not the real Atari" argument is a straw-man,  even though that argument has been used countless times in these threads,  then you go onto make it yourself.

 

Regarding the Paul McCartney argument.   If I buy a reissued Beatles album, I hear John, Paul, George and Ringo,  I don't hear Michael Jackson performing Beatles songs.  The fact that Michael Jackson's estate gets paid is neither here nor there.  That's for the business people and lawyers to sort out.

 

When I'm buying Atari,  I'm not going into it thinking I'm buying an Al Acorn, Nolan Bushnell, Ray Kassar, or whoever console,  I'm buying an Atari console.  I went through most of my early life not even knowing the names of the people behind the scenes, it was just a brand that meant a lot to us GenX kids.

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1 minute ago, Bill Loguidice said:

My opinion is that's way too expensive for too little of a return on investment.

Yeah. It's a shame too, because if they were able to release the licensed games like Raiders, AVP, Gremlins, the system would have a greater value proposition possibly.

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23 minutes ago, Nall3k said:

@Bill Loguidice do you think there would be a great proposition value for the VCS if Atari added Lynx and Jaguar games to it like they are with 7800?

I don't think it would add much value in terms of selling more systems, but as others have stated, why not? They don't have a huge amount of first party holdings that have gone unreleased, but certainly Lynx, Jaguar, Atari 5200, and Atari 8-bit stuff that do have should be made available on their own system. Obviously, we have Lynx stuff on the Evercade, but nowhere else as of yet.

 

I'm not sure what the state of emulation is on the Jaguar (as in if it's improved from the last time I saw and it wasn't that great - it's one of those systems that's best on original hardware), but certainly there's sufficient horsepower there and they can also only select the games that run properly (but if I recall correctly, they didn't even have a half dozen in their holdings, so it's an already small pool).

Edited by Bill Loguidice

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6 hours ago, Bill Loguidice said:

Anyway, the concepts I like most and probably would give it something relatively unique is to turn it into a mainstream tinkerer/hacker box -- even if that's just from a software standpoint rather than hardware (it's obviously not designed for hardware-modding). There are of course plenty of solutions to do that out there already, but to have a platform that guided that with a recognizable name behind it would be rather interesting.

This is exactly wtf I said w/o all the long school words.

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5 minutes ago, Nall3k said:

Yeah. It's a shame too, because if they were able to release the licensed games like Raiders, AVP, Gremlins, the system would have a greater value proposition possibly.

Yeah, licensing can be a bear. Knowing what I know from my own dealings, some companies are fair with that stuff and others are absolutely outrageous, which is why you just won't see some stuff officially ever. There are at times this weird overvaluing without understanding what something will actually sell and how your brand won't be damaged by allowing an old game to be re-released on a limited basis.

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1 minute ago, Bill Loguidice said:

I'm not sure what the state of emulation is on the Jaguar (as in if it's improved from the last time I saw and it wasn't that great - it's one of those systems that's best on original hardware), but certainly there's sufficient horsepower there and they can also only select the games that run properly.

It depends on the game.   Some games run pretty well.   Others... well    

The best Jaguar emulator seems to be that Russian one-- Project Phoenix I think.  But it's also the hardest to integrate if you just want users to be able launch Jag games from the AtariOS dashboard.   It forces you to use its own front-end, and it isn't open sourced.

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2 minutes ago, Draxxon said:

This is exactly wtf I said w/o all the long school words.

Cool. It's difficult to keep track of what's already been said in a long-ass thread. Either way, it's not happening, so the idea is just that.

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5 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

I'm not sure what the state of emulation is on the Jaguar (as in if it's improved from the last time I saw and it wasn't that great - it's one of those systems that's best on original hardware), but certainly there's sufficient horsepower there and they can also only select the games that run properly.

There is also the problem of the controller. For the games that rely on the keypad, it would make the experience less than optimal.

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Just now, stirrell said:

There is also the problem of the controller. For the games that rely on the keypad, it would make the experience less than optimal.

If I remember the list, there was nothing on there that would require more than the total buttons on the wireless modern controller, so at least that part is probably OK.

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1 minute ago, Bill Loguidice said:

Yeah, licensing can be a bear. Knowing what I know from my own dealings, some companies are fair with that stuff and others are absolutely outrageous, which is why you just won't see some stuff officially ever. There are at times this weird overvaluing without understanding what something will actually sell and how your brand won't be damaged by allowing an old game to be re-released on a limited basis.

And a David and Goliath problem.   The amount that a company like Disney would receive in residuals for games sold in low quantities in the Atari store at a couple of dollars a pop is probably less than it costs the high-priced Disney legal team to type up the contract  😕

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If you own an Atari VCS, or you're interested in one, please read/engage with the normal useful friendly threads. :-)

- If you came here just to argue about a system you don't own, you've probably already done it many times before. 
- If you don't like Atari, and you want to write about that, it's what Atari General forum is there for. Atari discussion.
- If you love the Amico idea, and you want to promote that, please do so in the Amico forum.

-  People who just drop by to vent their bile here, can expect a ban; I've personally not blocked anybody to date but...
   every argument and criticism of Atari as it is today, and the new VCS have been made over the last 175 pages. 😕

Nobody is going to change anybody's mind right now about these last discussions; please agree to disagree now.
The suggestion of a few people to wait a year is good.
I'm locking the thread temporarily, so some people can cool off.

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13 hours ago, justclaws said:

N.B. This is not in reference to the most recent posts in this thread. This post is a bit overdue, really.

If you own an Atari VCS, or you're interested in one, please read/engage with the normal useful friendly threads. 🙂

- If you came here just to argue about a system you don't own, you've probably already done it many times before. 
- If you don't like Atari, and you want to write about that, it's what Atari General forum is there for. Atari discussion.
- If you love the Amico idea, and you want to promote that, please do so in the Amico forum.

-  People who just drop by to vent their bile here, can expect a ban; I've personally not blocked anybody to date but...
   every argument and criticism of Atari as it is today, and the new VCS have been made over the last 175 pages. 😕

Nobody is going to change anybody's mind right now about these last discussions; please agree to disagree now.
The suggestion of a few people to wait a year is good.
I'm locking the thread temporarily, so some people can cool off.

 

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So, - I’m not even sure if its available in European Stores, but heck I’m into import, so…

 

… to the issue:

 

What would I need to see on the Atari VCS to consider buying/importing one?

 

1) a large amount of games available at reasonable prices added a high frequency.

- this should include, in the same manner Atari has provided 2600games, 5200 games, and puts out 7800 games, it should also include Lynx games, Jaguar games, and Atari ST games.


2) More Arcade compilations from non-Atari companies (yeah, its possible to strike a win-win deal, and for Atari - just asserting themselves on the market again is a win.

 

3) external hardware pieces, which would serve to make the Atari VCS a console (when these pieces are connected), actually play original old (or new) 2600,5200,7800 carts, Lynx cards and Jaguar (whatever it used, carts, cd-roms). Making the Atari VCS a kinda ‘Atari-Retron’.

 

4) In time, new Atari games, being not just remakes of olden goldies, but full-blood 2020ies follow-ups to original classics, completely new, like say Gigapede, Missile Command 2, Star Raiders 3, Scrapyard Dog 3, Ninja Golf 2, etc etc… being as novel and fresh as anything Nintendo, Sega, Sony or Microsoft makes on their contemporary consoles 

 

- - -

 

But most importantly:

 

What are your thoughts on the matter?

 

What should Atari do with VCS to make it a competitor to Switch, IOS-games, Android games, PC-games and you-name it?

 

Please post and share your thougts!

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15 hours ago, Giles N said:

What should Atari do with VCS to make it a competitor to Switch, IOS-games, Android games, PC-games and you-name it?

I don't think it's aiming to be a competitor to those things.   Think of it more like a modern-day XEGS,  a device that is both a console and computer,  it can run large existing libraries or the games Atari brought to cart (or in this case, games Atari added to the Atari Store)

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I read what you'd need to see, to buy one.
Simple answer, way too much - forget the system, they cannot be met.

For those of us with less astonishing requirements, it's a great system.
For others, it will never be what they expect.
Atari are not trying, nor ever expected, to make it compete with others.

Another thread for pros-and-cons and what-Atari-should-do is not needed.
I'd refer you to all the earlier pages of this thread.

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