Jump to content
tschak909

#Fujinet For Atari ST/TT/Falcon

Recommended Posts

Calling all #AtariST hardware and firmware hackers

 

It should be possible to make a version of #FujiNet that uses the ASCI port, to act as a full fledged network adapter and virtual disk drive adapter.

 

What is #FujiNet? Watch this video here for the #Atari8bit version.

 

The Virtual disk drive should be a no-brainer. It is the no.1 use case for the current installed base of FujiNet users, being able to access disk images directly from the network beyond or from a local SD card storage has proven to be the biggest win. It is useful within 30 seconds of coming out of the box.

 

The Virtual printer is the no.2 use case, and it provides a complete PDF rasterizer, emulating a variety of printers, so that you can quickly print something on modern printers by just opening it up in the web interface.

 

There is a WiFi modem in the firmware, how this would be exposed on the ST, would be up for debate, so I won’t go too far into it.

 

But the most powerful aspect of the #FujiNet comes from its network adapter functionality, which is designed in a way similar to a mainframe channel processor, in that the #FujiNet handles all the network protocol arbitration, and presents a nice clean and simple I/O channel that the target computer can sample at its leisure.

 

One of the problems with accessing the modern Internet, has to do with lackluster support for modern encryption. Offloading this onto the FujiNet fixes this problem completely, and #FujiNet has support for protocols like TLS(SSL) and SSH out of the box. There is also support for JSON and XML parsing of the channel, which means that coupled with the encryption support, modern web APIs can be directly accessed by FujiNet equipped machines. Wins all around.

 

All of this, in a device with an average target price between $60 to $80.

 

So why not see if we can bootstrap an effort? There are already efforts underway for the #ColecoAdam, #Apple2, and #C64, in addition to the #Ataribit version which has been in production for over a year, and has over 2000 happy customers.

 

What say you all? :) Come to our discord, https://discord.gg/7MfFTvD and let’s talk about trying to make this a reality. -Thom

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First complains about terminology: it is not hackers who can develop such adapter. It is not ASCI but ACSI port on Atari ST. Abbrev from Atari computer system interface, if I remember correct. Basically very early SCSI port (called SASI in that time) .

It is huge work to implement all those features.

Where can see documentation about details needed for diverse features, like printing ?

Btw. there is NetUsBee network adapter for Atari ST machines. Goes to cartridge port. Maybe it needs only software for Fuji Net goodies usage ?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The majority of what you're talking about is implemented in the existing firmware:

https://github.com/FujiNetWIFI/fujinet-platformio/

 

What would need to be made is a bus protocol for ACSI, and a hardware interface (that could probably be done with e.g. a set of 74HCT595's talking to the ESP32 GPIO pins). 

 

The power of FujiNet is in its usage of the very powerful 240MHz microcontroller, using it not unlike a mainframe channel controller. 

 

While NetUsbee is a great technical achievement, it can't go where FujiNet can. 

 

-Thom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would likely be more productive to add those features to CosmosEx.  The hardware is already out there and supports ACSI and SCSI if you prefer.

 

USB Printing is also something being worked on (since the ST's now can have real USB ports)

 

I mean, I'm sure you're going to disagree and spout off a few profanities while you're at it, but I really honestly don't see that big of a need for it given what's already available... Best of luck though.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Tillek said:

It would likely be more productive to add those features to CosmosEx.  The hardware is already out there and supports ACSI and SCSI if you prefer.

 

USB Printing is also something being worked on (since the ST's now can have real USB ports)

 

I mean, I'm sure you're going to disagree and spout off a few profanities while you're at it, but I really honestly don't see that big of a need for it given what's already available... Best of luck though.

 

Nothing stopping them from taking the code, that's why it exists.

I linked to it above.

 

No ego here. Just trying to spur development.

 

-Thom

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, tschak909 said:

Nothing stopping them from taking the code, that's why it exists.

I linked to it above.

 

No ego here. Just trying to spur development.

 

-Thom

Agreed... and hey, we've had our differences to be sure, but I've also made it clear in various places that I still respect the skills and what you're trying to do.

 

I just honestly think in this specific case, working with what is already out there might be a better effort than coming up with something somewhat new given how many great projects already go by the wayside because we just don't have the time to do everything we want to (and still pay those damn bills.... who's f'in bright idea was it to have them come EVERY month???????)

 

But for what it's worth, if you decide to go ahead with it, the "best of luck" was sincere.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe this will give you some ideas necessary for ACSI hardware interface.

This is based on my ACSI to Teensy 4.1 hard drive interface.

There is still few things needed to be addressed I marked them with the circles green and red. (working progress...)

1783500337_T4.1ACSI.thumb.png.e3a1e1d885a9bc45e44c8e2a358816a7.png

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Tillek said:

It would likely be more productive to add those features to CosmosEx.  The hardware is already out there and supports ACSI and SCSI if you prefer.

 

USB Printing is also something being worked on (since the ST's now can have real USB ports)

 

I mean, I'm sure you're going to disagree and spout off a few profanities while you're at it, but I really honestly don't see that big of a need for it given what's already available... Best of luck though.

 

 

To be completely honest, the timing is sort of funny. I saw a post on one of the ST Facebook groups just a few days ago asking if there were a FujiNet-like device available for the ST line. I replied that there were several devices that each did one or two of the things the FN does, but that the CosmosEx was the only one that seemed to do most, if not all of the things the FN does. Then this post shows up. I agree that the CosmosEx already exists, and that the FN won't bring a whole lot new to the table, but it would be nice to see all that brought at a more reasonable price. I certainly don't want to knock the CosmosEx in any way for what it does. It's an awesome little device, no doubt, but it is horribly expensive. While the FN doesn't have any sort of USB keyboard/mouse hosting capabilities like the CosmosEx, it does have pretty much everything else I believe, and would come in at less than half the price of the CosmosEx. It would be nice to see that many features come in at that price point, which would open it up to a lot of people that either can't afford, or just won't spend that much for the CosmosEx.

 

It should prove interesting watching the development. I look forward to seeing where it goes. For what it's worth, I love the FN for my 8-bit and I've never seen any negative press for it at all.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im on the fence with the 8bit Fujinet (I bought an AVG cart).  It does alot of great stuff and on the ST could provide an easier and cost effective network interface.

 

Im not sure if this is feasible with any device but something that would be great is the ability for the Spectre 128 to also use this interface (its just a HD right?)  Anyhow, I know Im dreaming but getting Mac software transferred from the ST to a Spectre partition is hard.  There is 0% chance of networking on the Spectre 128 and this may open up a whole new world of possibilities for the ST running Mac software.

 

Having said that - even with just ST emulation this could be very interesting and at ~$70 would be tempting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, bfollowell said:

 

To be completely honest, the timing is sort of funny.

 

How so?

 

Someone posed the question on FB, it is only natural that Thom would see if there was interest in helping out since you'll find a decent segment of the community doesn't get on FB anymore (or never was).

 

Once posted, it was inevitable that someone would make the CosmosEx comparison.  This will happen over and over as it hits the other forums too.  Actually, the only thing strange about any of it is that you find it odd. ;)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, bfollowell said:

 

. For what it's worth, I love the FN for my 8-bit and I've never seen any negative press for it at all.

 

 

I hope you said that last part "tongue in cheek" and with a straight face...  :)

 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, DarkLord said:

 

I hope you said that last part "tongue in cheek" and with a straight face...  :)

 

If you have something to say to me, you can say it to my face, and not be under-handed about it. If there is an issue, we can talk it out and resolve it.

-Thom

 

Edited by tschak909

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, tschak909 said:

If you have something to say to me, you can say it to my face, and not be under-handed about it. If there is an issue, we can talk it out and resolve it.

-Thom

 

Whoah buddy. Back up and regroup there. I don't have anything to say "to your face" but if I feel the inclination, it'll come,

and I promise, you won't have to wonder about it.

 

All I was saying is that while the Fujinet is a great device, with lots of wonderful features and support, no one can say that

there's never been -1- negative thing said about it. That's all.

 

For the record, I don't own a Fujinet, so I can't directly comment on it's use. Just wanted to get that out in the open.

 

However, if anyone doubts there *ever* being anything negative said about the Fujinet, perhaps you should go talk

to the Atari 8bit BBS SysOps...

 

Edited by DarkLord

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, DarkLord said:

 

I hope you said that last part "tongue in cheek" and with a straight face...  :)

 

 

Definitely. I do love mine though.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, Tillek said:

How so?

 

Someone posed the question on FB, it is only natural that Thom would see if there was interest in helping out since you'll find a decent segment of the community doesn't get on FB anymore (or never was).

 

Once posted, it was inevitable that someone would make the CosmosEx comparison.  This will happen over and over as it hits the other forums too.  Actually, the only thing strange about any of it is that you find it odd. ;)

 

 

I didn't say it was odd, but that I found it funny, as in amusing, that's all.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just wanted to point something else out as well...and someone correct me

if I'm wrong here, but to the best of my knowledge, the CosmosEx is (and

has been for a while) unavailable...

 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, DarkLord said:

Just wanted to point something else out as well...and someone correct me

if I'm wrong here, but to the best of my knowledge, the CosmosEx is (and

has been for a while) unavailable...

 

One of the things we have deliberately tried to do, is make FujiNet available by as many vendors as possible, working with them to try and make them available for customers. We do not ask for anything at all in return, not even a licensing fee. 

 

(the reason being that many of us have our incomes coming in from elsewhere, and we just want this thing to exist and be used)

 

-Thom

  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, tschak909 said:

One of the things we have deliberately tried to do, is make FujiNet available by as many vendors as possible, working with them to try and make them available for customers. We do not ask for anything at all in return, not even a licensing fee. 

 

(the reason being that many of us have our incomes coming in from elsewhere, and we just want this thing to exist and be used)

 

-Thom

 

And most of us really appreciate it too!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/30/2021 at 3:31 PM, DarkLord said:

Just wanted to point something else out as well...and someone correct me

if I'm wrong here, but to the best of my knowledge, the CosmosEx is (and

has been for a while) unavailable...

 

Certainly wasn’t available when I was looking. Most of the people touting the CosmoEx never note this small detail. It really doesn’t matter how good something is if it’s unavailable. 
 

As for a FujiNet device I held of getting one for a long time because of other devices I had installed on my 8-bit. Didn’t see the need.  One came with my 576NCU+ and it’s quickly became one of my favorite hardware upgrades. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, mdivancic said:

Certainly wasn’t available when I was looking. Most of the people touting the CosmoEx never note this small detail. It really doesn’t matter how good something is if it’s unavailable. 
 

As for a FujiNet device I held of getting one for a long time because of other devices I had installed on my 8-bit. Didn’t see the need.  One came with my 576NCU+ and it’s quickly became one of my favorite hardware upgrades. 

 

And if you decide you want another for any other 8-bits you may have, Gavin is a beast when it comes to making news ones and getting them ready for sale. If he's out when you check, check back every two or three days. He rarely goes more than two or three weeks without a new batch becoming available.

 

I mentioned the CosmosEx as well, before looking a little harder at it myself and realizing that there aren't any available anywhere unless you happen to stumble on a used one somewhere. It really is an awesome little device, but just a little too rich for my blood even when it was available. While the FujiNet doesn't do any sort of USB hosting for mouse and keyboard connectivity, it will probably do most of everything else the CosmosEx does, and at a much, much better price. It' really hard to believe all that the FN does feature-wise for its price.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...