Startropics on Everdrive N8 Pro with original toaster NES

[timepilot]

I have tried multiple versions of Startropics on my Everdrive N8 Pro, in my original toaster NES. Every one of those versions produces a blank screen.

 

The Internet seems to indicate that Startropics should be supported.  Checking the game from the Everdrive N8 Pro menu indicates that it is supported.  Can't figure out why it wouldn't work.

 

Any thoughts?  I am in my first week of using the Everdrive N8 Pro, so I may be making rookie mistake(s).

[timepilot]

2 hours ago, timepilot said:

I have tried multiple versions of Startropics on my Everdrive N8 Pro, in my original toaster NES. Every one of those versions produces a blank screen.

 

The Internet seems to indicate that Startropics should be supported.  Checking the game from the Everdrive N8 Pro menu indicates that it is supported.  Can't figure out why it wouldn't work.

 

Any thoughts?  I am in my first week of using the Everdrive N8 Pro, so I may be making rookie mistake(s).

Fixed it by applying the "mapper fix" patch. Have others found that this is necessary when using Startropics with the Everdrive N8 Pro?

[Tanooki]

Unless it's something relatively new, there has been a mapper fix patch basically anyone would want to use for years now because the base setup has problems.  I know I applied it when I got the normal N8 some years back and it made things far better.

[timepilot]

1 hour ago, Tanooki said:

Unless it's something relatively new, there has been a mapper fix patch basically anyone would want to use for years now because the base setup has problems.  I know I applied it when I got the normal N8 some years back and it made things far better.

Do you mean a mapper fix for Startropics or a mapper fix for the Everdrive N8 Pro?  I applied an IPS "mapper fix" patch to Startropics, but if there is another fix that I should apply to the Everdrive firmware, please let me know.

[Tanooki]

General mapper fix across the board, applies to either N8 (pro, standard, fc, nes)  I don't know of a specific one for that only game, you saying it is news to me.

[timepilot]

5 hours ago, Tanooki said:

General mapper fix across the board, applies to either N8 (pro, standard, fc, nes)  I don't know of a specific one for that only game, you saying it is news to me.

I'm now seeing the same black screen with Crystalis. Is that probably due to the same problem?  If so, is there a page with instructions on the "general mapper fix"?

[Tanooki]

I have no idea, never had a problem with either game.  I also don't have the newer Pro but the original model.  This could be anything from firmware or update issue, or a defective kit I really have no clue.

 

Just google it and see if someone else has the same fail because Crystalis has nothing related to it with Startropics at all as they're not even on the same mapper.

[timepilot]

29 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

I have no idea, never had a problem with either game.  I also don't have the newer Pro but the original model.  This could be anything from firmware or update issue, or a defective kit I really have no clue.

 

Just google it and see if someone else has the same fail because Crystalis has nothing related to it with Startropics at all as they're not even on the same mapper.

As I experiment more and more, I am finding that some games work correctly on one dump but not on others.  Maybe it's as simple as that.  From multiple dumps, just find the one that works?

[Tanooki]

Well yeah possible depending on the set you're playing around with or finding them randomly.  Over the years some games were not understood right as far as contents but probably more so the header goes, emulation and all that too since they're intermixed entirely as a side effect.  Because of that blending you do end up where things end up being redumped and having the header redone to accept things.  If I remember right when a game like that ST title and sequel popped up they got shoehorned into MMC3 like many games use (Mario 3, Kirby, etc) but it wasn't right, they had light glitches.  In time it was figured out it used another mapper I think it was thrown up against MMC6, uniquely no less because while it was a MMC3 it wasn't, there was a smidge more memory involved but largely was pretty close to the same.  You can see the details here:https://wiki.nesdev.org/w/index.php/MMC6

Another was the MMC4 which was found only again to be used uniquely but a couple Nintendo made titles, the Famicom only Fire Emblem series which like the MM6 being a MMC3 variant, the MMC4 is a play off the MMC2 only used by Punchout.  Due to these slight changes and people not understanding them back when largely this stuff was coordinated and developed for headers for emulation, and the dumps themselves too throughout the latter half of the 1990s, it took into the 2000s and earlier 2010s even to totally get the picture.  Even now little glitches still crop up I see on emulation update notes get handled.  When people largely thought stuff was done done, it wasn't really done, just like 99.?% there.     

 

It's funny I was part of that community in the 90s in a few ways, even have a 20+ year old document on gamefaqs about headers that's still somewhat useful today I beileve.  That's how I kind of get it, despite the fact I can't code let alone compile a damn thing.

[timepilot]

On 1/21/2022 at 12:18 AM, Tanooki said:

Well yeah possible depending on the set you're playing around with or finding them randomly.  Over the years some games were not understood right as far as contents but probably more so the header goes, emulation and all that too since they're intermixed entirely as a side effect.  Because of that blending you do end up where things end up being redumped and having the header redone to accept things.  If I remember right when a game like that ST title and sequel popped up they got shoehorned into MMC3 like many games use (Mario 3, Kirby, etc) but it wasn't right, they had light glitches.  In time it was figured out it used another mapper I think it was thrown up against MMC6, uniquely no less because while it was a MMC3 it wasn't, there was a smidge more memory involved but largely was pretty close to the same.  You can see the details here:https://wiki.nesdev.org/w/index.php/MMC6

Another was the MMC4 which was found only again to be used uniquely but a couple Nintendo made titles, the Famicom only Fire Emblem series which like the MM6 being a MMC3 variant, the MMC4 is a play off the MMC2 only used by Punchout.  Due to these slight changes and people not understanding them back when largely this stuff was coordinated and developed for headers for emulation, and the dumps themselves too throughout the latter half of the 1990s, it took into the 2000s and earlier 2010s even to totally get the picture.  Even now little glitches still crop up I see on emulation update notes get handled.  When people largely thought stuff was done done, it wasn't really done, just like 99.?% there.     

 

It's funny I was part of that community in the 90s in a few ways, even have a 20+ year old document on gamefaqs about headers that's still somewhat useful today I beileve.  That's how I kind of get it, despite the fact I can't code let alone compile a damn thing.

Yeah, I came of age in the emulator world in the mid/late 1990s, when the most modern emulator was Bloodlust Software's Nesticle (and not the final version, either!). I thought it was so amazing to be able to play ColecoVision, Coleco ADAM, and NES games on my Pentium, with crystal-clear VGA graphics rather than a snowy coax TV signal. I know that many of the dumps that we used back then had been modified to work with Nesticle.

 

That said, the set that I am using is more recent and, I believe, more accurate. Circa 8,000+ dumps. It looks like most of the games have at least one (and often more than one) dump that will work with the Everdrive. And, where every dump failed (Startropics, which was featured in the first issue of Nintendo Power that I ever received in the mail!), I found an ips patch to fix it.

 

I tried one of the "no-intro" sets from archive.org, but every file in the set came back as incompatible with the Everdrive. Not sure what I am doing wrong there.

[Tanooki]

Hmmm I'll start with your last part first, either you found a uniquely busted archive or you have a problem with your downloads/computer because those are made for accuracy and everdrives, often updated, reuploaded, etc in case of takedowns.  They're the most reliable front in public view for working games.

 

My first run into an emulator was pre-internet by some earlier months of 1995 on a local dial up BBS.  I found VGB that marat made with the original known at the month/times 50 odd gameboy games in one convenient little bundle that still took on 56k a bit to get carried over -- blew my mind, then there was VSMC with its sorta early SNES emulation(barely functional), and Pasofami, the pre .NES format style emulator out of Japan.  I did use Nesticle some, never liked the immaturity of it or the huge ego that coded it, who also by a few friends in my circles proved he was using some stolen code within his emulator too.  If I remember those within damaged cybernetics and friends really set off sardu of nesticle bad enough he terminated it, his genesis emu, and supposed upcoming snes one too.  Truth is he was quite good a 'borrowing' code and puffing up his own self importance enough he could fluff a resume enough to get picked up to work with EA (couldn't fit a better class of classy business as that.)  I saw him in person once at E3 2001, some people were aware of what his earlier alter ego was, it was pointed out to good effect.

[timepilot]

29 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

Hmmm I'll start with your last part first, either you found a uniquely busted archive or you have a problem with your downloads/computer because those are made for accuracy and everdrives, often updated, reuploaded, etc in case of takedowns.  They're the most reliable front in public view for working games.

 

All of the games uncompressed fine into individual files.  But none of them were readable by Nestopia or by my Everdrive. Will try another version.  (In the meanwhile, I will keep using my 8,000+ dump set, which seems pretty good, even if it does necessitate picking the best dump among many.)

[Tanooki]

Yeah that's not normal.  Is nestopia even updated anymore or did someone pick it up again?  It got stopped some years back, but I have used a modern set with it and other stuff since (primarily mesen which is insanely good/accurate) and not had your issues.

[timepilot]

3 hours ago, Tanooki said:

Yeah that's not normal.  Is nestopia even updated anymore or did someone pick it up again?  It got stopped some years back, but I have used a modern set with it and other stuff since (primarily mesen which is insanely good/accurate) and not had your issues.

Found another "no-intro" pack, and these work fairly consistently.  Startropics still produces a blank screen, so it looks like I'll just use the mapper fix ips patch that I found.  This, plus the 8,000-plus pack that has all sorts of rarities, obscurities, and translations, should keep me occupied for a long time to come.