+saxmeister Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) I always loved the arcade game Karnov and felt the 7800 could do it justice. So, just for giggles I started throwing together some graphics and code to see what I could come up with. I don't know if this will go anywhere as I am still learning 7800 Basic and the intricacies of the 7800, but it started out better than expected. I can already see some major improvements that I could make, especially using 320A mode for the text - especially where the screen splits at the bottom of the main playfield. The text and the icons could be monochromatic high-res icons and would work much better. Edited January 21, 2022 by saxmeister Replaced title graphic 31 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Back Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 I personally love it and encourage you to keep testing and asking for input. There are some 7800 coding all stars here and it would be awesome to have another developer for the 7800 bringing awesome ideas to the library. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cris1997XX Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 Yes!! Karnov was one of my favourite arcade games when I was a kid, and the NES version even improves on it. It would be great to see someone tackle a 7800 port with better colors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 Don't be afraid to leave out scrolling for a first attempt. No shame! There are versions of Super Mario Brothers and Castlevania that do fine without it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+swlovinist Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 Looks great and thank you for sharing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlidellMan Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 Wow, I bet plenty of former Data East staff would be impressed with what you have done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Muddyfunster Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 Great start! Karnov isn't a title I'm that familiar with, other than the ZX SPectrum version, which probably isn't a good frame of reference 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BydoEmpire Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 I always thought that was a cool game... but I also remember being very disappointed in the NES port. Excited to see where this goes on the 7800! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+saxmeister Posted January 21, 2022 Author Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) Revisions to the title screen for now. - Split the screen into 160A and 320A - Defined the font and made the letters and alphabet look like the arcade font - Tweaked palette for the dragon fire I'm still not sure about this title. The "KARNOV" letters are marbled like the arcade version, but at this lower resolution it isn't as clear. I'm thinking of removing the dithering for this presentation. Also, I'm really digging this blue color palette for the dragons, but that was "borrowed" from the NES version and the arcade version is more of a blue-grey/gray color. I probably will take your advice, @Geminitronic, and may not implement scrolling just yet. I'm also thinking of sound chip options for this since I could target TIA, POKEY, or even YM2151. The YM2151 would be closest to the arcade hardware (YM3526) but I'm worried about CPU cycles since the 7800 doesn't have a sound co-processor. Edited January 21, 2022 by saxmeister Added link to responder 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+saxmeister Posted January 23, 2022 Author Share Posted January 23, 2022 I started working on the code for this and realized just how much variation was in this including the levels and monsters. That is a bit much for me to bite off for now, so I may continue work on other items until I feel confident enough to get this going properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 Very nice start! On 1/21/2022 at 11:09 AM, saxmeister said: I probably will take your advice, @Geminitronic, and may not implement scrolling just yet. I'm also thinking of sound chip options for this since I could target TIA, POKEY, or even YM2151. The YM2151 would be closest to the arcade hardware (YM3526) but I'm worried about CPU cycles since the 7800 doesn't have a sound co-processor. We kinda worried about that prior to getting trackers running, but honestly the cycles involved isn't a major concern. In this demo video, the blue flashing represents the amount of CPU used by the tracker. (I turn the background blue when the tracker driver starts, and black after it's done). You can see it's a rather small proportion of a frame. The small bit of blue you do see flashes from frame to frame, since CPU isn't used by the driver between notes. IMO the bigger concern is the lack of YM availability for real carts or non-DF flash carts, which divides your potential audience greatly. There are some solutions for this which may be on the horizon - Rafal's passthru cart, or batari's Hokey with YM emulation - but none of those are guaranteed, nor are they imminent. Personally, I try to develop around tech that's available now or really soon, to avoid my code getting stuck on someone else's timetable. (...he said with some irony, after just showing off his tracker written for the XM) 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Back Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 I think we all understood from the title that your just seeing what can be done so don’t feel discouraged or obligated to do any more. I think the most exciting thing was seeing the potential of a talented programmer being showed off! Can’t wait to see what else you do whether it’s finishing karnov or something completely different! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7800Knight Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 Keep up the good work. The level of genius we have here on the AtariAge forums is staggering. We have some of the best & brightest minds out there! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+saxmeister Posted January 23, 2022 Author Share Posted January 23, 2022 6 hours ago, RevEng said: Very nice start! We kinda worried about that prior to getting trackers running, but honestly the cycles involved isn't a major concern. In this demo video, the blue flashing represents the amount of CPU used by the tracker. (I turn the background blue when the tracker driver starts, and black after it's done). You can see it's a rather small proportion of a frame. The small bit of blue you do see flashes from frame to frame, since CPU isn't used by the driver between notes. IMO the bigger concern is the lack of YM availability for real carts or non-DF flash carts, which divides your potential audience greatly. There are some solutions for this which may be on the horizon - Rafal's passthru cart, or batari's Hokey with YM emulation - but none of those are guaranteed, nor are they imminent. Personally, I try to develop around tech that's available now or really soon, to avoid my code getting stuck on someone else's timetable. (...he said with some irony, after just showing off his tracker written for the XM) I had seen this before but love to see it more. That is great work! Yes, the lack of availability is a concern. I really wish there was a preexisting way to add the YM to carts now. For many arcade games the YM is the closest, though I love the POKEY. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+saxmeister Posted January 23, 2022 Author Share Posted January 23, 2022 One thing I discovered is something that was talked about in other threads on this forum - sometimes order is everything. When I was splitting the modes on screen I kept having the sky line go one scanline beneath the defined area. This was the code: And the result: I switched the order and set the background color first THEN set the screen mode with this code: And the result: Just in case anyone else is running into a similar problem. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+x=usr(1536) Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 I'm just going to beat the rush and put in a request for Dance Dance Karnov now. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+saxmeister Posted January 25, 2022 Author Share Posted January 25, 2022 I had never seen that before. Too funny! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlidellMan Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 You're progressing quite nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bratwurst Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 This looks really nice, can't deny. Would love to see it turn into a full fledged game but I respect the decision not to if it comes down to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggy the Atarian Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 On 1/21/2022 at 9:09 AM, saxmeister said: Revisions to the title screen for now. - Split the screen into 160A and 320A - Defined the font and made the letters and alphabet look like the arcade font - Tweaked palette for the dragon fire I'm still not sure about this title. The "KARNOV" letters are marbled like the arcade version, but at this lower resolution it isn't as clear. I'm thinking of removing the dithering for this presentation. Also, I'm really digging this blue color palette for the dragons, but that was "borrowed" from the NES version and the arcade version is more of a blue-grey/gray color. I probably will take your advice, @Geminitronic, and may not implement scrolling just yet. I'm also thinking of sound chip options for this since I could target TIA, POKEY, or even YM2151. The YM2151 would be closest to the arcade hardware (YM3526) but I'm worried about CPU cycles since the 7800 doesn't have a sound co-processor. Out of curiosity, have you tested doing the whole title screen as 320B (which I thought was the higher color mode) or is there an issue in doing so? I thought that you'd be able to get some more color out of it with something like that, but I'm probably misremembering or just not sure what I'm talking about with 7800 modes While I haven't been able to wrap my head around coding, I've found the idea of combining resolutions to be a fascinating one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevaside Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 (edited) Very cool to see, regardless if you decide to go through with it or not. Karnov is one of those games that stuck with me over the decades. Just unforgettable, surreal enemies & stages, it was quite a trip & really captured my imagination as a child lol My arcade had it & we rented it couple times for the NES. I have owned the NES cart in my collection for ages, but just could not beat that final boss for the life of me Edited January 27, 2022 by Stevaside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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