ti99iuc Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 (edited) The historical videogame par excellence is undoubtedly Pong. The first commercialized digital tennis game. Did we need yet another version in 2022? I would have answered no but, in this enhanced version which includes the use of the joystick and also a single player mode that include the AI for the computer player.... well, I had to change my mind! ? This is how an Italian developer who signs himself with the pseudonym 'Skirla' (but also known as 'Piso' ), who as his first official complete game, gives us a version of Pong that we did not yet have on the TI-99/4A! It will take the additional 32K to be able to get it started. The Downloads including the XB, EA5 for the .BIN I created it using the Make Cart @Tursi utility (Thanks!). It is a GROM image and on my FG99, I do now know why, it seems to not work but it is ok with emulators. Can maybe Help with this please? maybe to create a ROM image? Module Creator seems to have a limit in doing the conversion of these EA5 files. In the meanwhile, I also created a couple of labels for the cartridge: Description and free downlaod can be found in the TI99iuc website following this page these are the direct link for the .ZIP files: - XB - EA5 - Cartridge image (GROM) - (include the labels) Edited February 27, 2022 by ti99iuc 8 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tursi Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 That's very impressive! Nicely polished, and the AI concept feels very fair. My only thought was that the ball is considered missed 'too early' - it should move past the paddle, and it'd be nice to use the button for an accelerated movement so you can 'dash' for the ball. These are very minor nitpicks though. Only guess on the FinalGROM is that I notice the GROM file is not padded to an 8k multiple, perhaps that is causing an issue. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ti99iuc Posted February 28, 2022 Author Share Posted February 28, 2022 (edited) thanks @Tursi yes I agree with your nitpicks maybe something could be done on these. I will alert the developer to take a look also for the GROM files. to be honest I would prefer to obtain an -8.bin and not a G. This could help also to create real cartridges using a normal eprom. Edited February 28, 2022 by ti99iuc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+arcadeshopper Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 6 hours ago, ti99iuc said: thanks @Tursi yes I agree with your nitpicks maybe something could be done on these. I will alert the developer to take a look also for the GROM files. to be honest I would prefer to obtain an -8.bin and not a G. This could help also to create real cartridges using a normal eprom. tried to make a rom module with modulecreator but *** Cartridge LO-MEM out of bounds <start=2000, end=4000> *L99 v1.6.3 Loaded files (4): PONG9-E : Startaddres: >B724 Size: >1FFA PONG9-F : Startaddres: >D71E Size: >1FFA PONG9-G : Startaddres: >F718 Size: >0886 PONG9-H : Startaddres: >2000 Size: >2000 REF/DEF table 2 entries, 0 unresolved references. BLOB >6116 PRG1PG >601A 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmop69 Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 1 hour ago, arcadeshopper said: tried to make a rom module with modulecreator but *** Cartridge LO-MEM out of bounds <start=2000, end=4000> *L99 v1.6.3 Loaded files (4): PONG9-E : Startaddres: >B724 Size: >1FFA PONG9-F : Startaddres: >D71E Size: >1FFA PONG9-G : Startaddres: >F718 Size: >0886 PONG9-H : Startaddres: >2000 Size: >2000 REF/DEF table 2 entries, 0 unresolved references. BLOB >6116 PRG1PG >601A All the compiled games with 4 EA files seems not working with ModuleCreator. Usually if you select the option to put the runtime in low memory the ModuleCreator fails. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+arcadeshopper Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 9 minutes ago, tmop69 said: All the compiled games with 4 EA files seems not working with ModuleCreator. Usually if you select the option to put the runtime in low memory the ModuleCreator fails. @F.G. Kaal this seem fixable? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OLD CS1 Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 4 hours ago, tmop69 said: All the compiled games with 4 EA files seems not working with ModuleCreator. Usually if you select the option to put the runtime in low memory the ModuleCreator fails. Is it too big not to compile without using low memory? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senior_falcon Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 This surprises me. There are programs such as "Attack of the Creepers" that use all 24K. Extending ModuleCreator to accommodate all 32K of memory would seem to be quite straightforward. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOME AUTOMATION Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 This seems to produce a file fixed at 64K... PONGEY.BIN 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ti99iuc Posted March 1, 2022 Author Share Posted March 1, 2022 (edited) Oh! it works on my FinalGrom99 too, thanks! I had problems with the previous one. Edited March 1, 2022 by ti99iuc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tursi Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 4 hours ago, HOME AUTOMATION said: This seems to produce a file fixed at 64K... PONGEY.BIN 64 kB · 5 downloads It has to, you are saving all 32k of memory and there still needs to be code space for the loader code. The next size after 32k is 64k. But, yes, Classic99's Save Memory function was the replacement for my old MakeCart. I realize it takes a little more knowledge to use but it's about as flexible as it's possible to be, since it can save anything you can load. Still don't understand why you guys /insist/ on deleting the tag character. FinalGROM won't reject the file if there's an 8 in it. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senior_falcon Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 2 hours ago, Tursi said: It has to, you are saving all 32k of memory and there still needs to be code space for the loader code. The next size after 32k is 64k. Could do the loader in GPL. Of course, that would make it impossible hard to run from a V2.2 console. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tursi Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 40 minutes ago, senior_falcon said: Could do the loader in GPL. Of course, that would make it impossible hard to run from a V2.2 console. The loader is running from ROM in cartridge space, so that's not an issue. Besides, the very first post has the GROM loader version Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tursi Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 46 minutes ago, senior_falcon said: Could do the loader in GPL. Of course, that would make it impossible hard to run from a V2.2 console. Wait... I think you have that backwards. And I didn't even notice the first time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senior_falcon Posted March 2, 2022 Share Posted March 2, 2022 7 hours ago, Tursi said: Wait... I think you have that backwards. And I didn't even notice the first time! You are right! I didn't notice either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicarni Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 Testing the EA5 version on a real TI wouldn`t start, because the loader (EA5/FW/Menu, or what you prefer) will be overwritten. An easy solution: change the loading order! The original File PONG9-G loads on adress >F718, this file should be renamed to PONG9-HH and PONG9-H should be renamed to PONG9-G. Change the first 2 bytes of the header of this file to >FFFF and save it. Now rename PONG9-HH to PONG9-H and change the first 2 bytes of the header to >0000, save it. That`s it... EA5 will now work... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicarni Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 and I forget to say: thank you very much for this great TI version of Pong 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ti99iuc Posted March 6, 2022 Author Share Posted March 6, 2022 42 minutes ago, publicarni said: Testing the EA5 version on a real TI wouldn`t start, because the loader (EA5/FW/Menu, or what you prefer) will be overwritten. An easy solution: change the loading order! The original File PONG9-G loads on adress >F718, this file should be renamed to PONG9-HH and PONG9-H should be renamed to PONG9-G. Change the first 2 bytes of the header of this file to >FFFF and save it. Now rename PONG9-HH to PONG9-H and change the first 2 bytes of the header to >0000, save it. That`s it... EA5 will now work... Thanks for the kind words and suggestions you mean in this way? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airshack Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 On 2/28/2022 at 9:25 PM, senior_falcon said: Extending ModuleCreator to accommodate all 32K of memory would seem to be quite straightforward. As well as very much apprecaited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOME AUTOMATION Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 On 3/1/2022 at 1:15 PM, Tursi said: Still don't understand why you guys /insist/ on deleting the tag character. FinalGROM won't reject the file if there's an 8 in it. HOME AUTOMATION_8C.bin viewed through FG99's eyes becomes... HOME AUT.bin so would need to be changed to... HOME _8C.bin ...see the problem(es sucio y feo)! ...can we steal any more characters from the file's name? ...I know, let's use the DOS shortname. HOME A~1.bin ...oops, it got plastered again. ...I'd strip the .bin off too if I could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tursi Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 (edited) It's only one character - the 8 (or the C). Some people use the underscore just to make it more clear. HOME_AU8.BIN is not that much worse than HOME_AUT.BIN By throwing away the metadata, you make it difficult for future people coming across the file to have any idea what it is... that one character is the /only/ metadata we have (excluding the data in MAME rpks, but even that has been deprecated). Is it ROM or GROM? Is it bank switched or not? Is it inverted bank order or not? Is it another memory type altogether? You can't even tell by looking at the header cause ROM and GROM use the same header. Needs to be inferred/guessed at. Worse are the ones that accidentally use a reserved character at the end of the name - they get misinterpreted and break on loading on systems that honor the extension. For instance, BARNYARD.BIN would be misinterpreted as bank 2 of an Extended BASIC style module, because that's what the filename says (D.BIN). This has already happened a few times. I did a bunch of work on the Phoenix codebase stripping out as much of fatFS as I could to support long filenames without all the bells and whistles in a small memory space - I wonder if it would fit in the FinalGROM firmware? https://github.com/tursilion/Phoenix-Colecovision/tree/master/gameMenus/coleco/src/fatFs (Edit: guess it could still be tricky. Lots of long data types and on the Z80 it still took almost 12k. Mind you, the code SDCC generates for anything longer than 8 bits is really awful, and I guess you could get a bit more by removing directory support... ) Edited March 16, 2022 by Tursi 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 Just to add some detail on that, the RPKs seem to enjoy some longer life than expected, since they were promoted from the TI-only access to a general MAME access (they moved up the tree). ? In MAME, the ZIP cartridges only contain the dumps, but the metadata are stored in a XML file which is distributed with MAME. (The reason is obviously that after more than 10 years, no one came up with a reasonable extension of the ZIP format to homebrew cartridges.) So I'd like to introduce another wording: The RPKs are not deprecated anymore, but the ZIP files are recommended for standard cartridges (not homebrew). 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tursi Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 20 hours ago, mizapf said: The RPKs are not deprecated anymore, but the ZIP files are recommended for standard cartridges (not homebrew). I like to hear that (most of it anyway)! I think standardizing on RPKs is a good idea. The ZIP files are not because they are dependent upon the MAME source code. Bad for sharing, bad for preservation. You have a bunch of bytes and no idea what they mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 10 hours ago, Tursi said: Bad for sharing, bad for preservation. You have a bunch of bytes and no idea what they mean. I have to disagree; from the MAME point of view, the ZIP do make more sense than the RPKs in terms of preservation - but it's not the ZIPs that preserve; the relevant file is the XML file. The hash codes contained in the MAME xml file (in our case, <mamedir>/hash/ti99_cart.xml) determine whether dumps are genuine or not. You know that we have a lot of cartridge dumps that were modified to make them work in special environment, or to prevent autostart. This is probably even worse for other computer systems. In the end, you have a bunch of dump files that all claim to be pulled from one game. MAME does not distribute ROMs; it attempts to play its role in preservation by saying "if you have a dump, we tell you whether it's genuine". The RPKs are somewhat more handy, but with respect to authenticity, they do not guarantee anything. Anyone can build a RPK and say that it's the right one. But if preservation is not the primary goal (like in homebrew software or work-in-progress), they are the better choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOME AUTOMATION Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 On 3/16/2022 at 5:08 AM, Tursi said: HOME_AU8.BIN is not that much worse than HOME_AUT.BIN It's only one character - Tomorrow, the WORLD! Does not one grain of sand, a heap make? I guess some inner-mechanism causes me to advocate for filename chastity. Your points regarding files' internal organization, while true, and clever, still seem imposing. Maybe we could put the _8, in an .xml file. ...Just kidding. Yes, HOME_AUT.BIN is far too constrained in the first place, as if it isn't bad enough that my name is somewhat indescript. This might be better: HOME AUGHT-O-NATION ...Oops, now I'm running as a GROM ...because my 8th character is a G. Looks like I'm just a bill. Not even sittin' there on capital hill. P.S. ...How many more Great Names ...shall be invalidated or forbidden... by these indiscriminate re-naming conventions! P.P.S. You can't win... I'm too ZANY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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