General PC Mode Questions, can't get too technical.

[Mockduck]

I have to admit my experience over the past year with PC Mode hasn't been all that great. Now, I'm not very techie, just enough to get me in trouble, so I have Windows 10 running fine on a 3.1 USB SSD (500 gig) on my VCS. Otherwise the console is stock. 

 

I can play emulators fine, browse fine, surf, etc., but just about any game that needs some level of 3D graphical support tends to tank. By that I mean "You get maybe half way into the game then the game crashes" and occasionally takes the OS with it. 

 

Rocket League does this, for example; I've never been able to get into a game natively through Steam. My own studio's games do this, which is sad, because I'd love to sic an engineer on it but that would not be appropriate. I am pretty up on my games and you can get in world on super low settings, but get too much or try to add antialiasing and the thing dumps to desktop. My games are not particularly demanding for MMOs. I have also run into this trying to run games like Scrap Mechanic, Stormworks, and Brick Rigs. I can run something like Space Invaders Extreme fine.

 

Here's my rough thought on it: Probably the embedded GPU, right? The 1606g is sweet for what it is, but it's probably just too low for most 3D games, right? The other thought I've had is that I'm ramming up to and then past the 8gig RAM on the system, which again is being used by the CPU/GPU as it doesn't have separate dedicated graphics memory.

 

SO: In general is it safe to say the VCS stock is suitable for typical consumer PC uses outside of 3D gaming, and for 3D gaming it works well as a cloud streaming solution? 
I also ASSUME that running Windows off a 3.0 USB is far worse then running it off a SATA M.2 drive that is installed in the system. So here are my specific questions:

 

1. Is it a night and day difference, enough (for me) to justify the $100 or so it'd take to buy one?
2. Then presumably I would also want to and maybe need to install more RAM. If the 8 gigs is being eaten up then the M.2 wouldn't solve that problem, right? BUT: Does just more RAM help? I - could - get faster RAM but without the ability to adjust the clock speed in the settings that additional speed would not be used. 
3. Today I am going to try running a Windows Debloater that I found on VCS culture YouTube, seemed pretty cool. Anyone had issues using it?

 

I did want to say that I don't typically know about nor adjust BIOS settings, have never and probably will never know how to do something like get a Raspberry Pi working (the one afternoon I tried I just couldn't get it started even...), and wouldn't know how to run a Powershell Script if my life depended on it.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Mockduck
typo

[zzip]

My first thought is RAM,  do these games run on other systems with 8Gb RAM?      Unlike PC GPUs with dedicated RAM, I believe the VCS shares main memory with the GPU?   You may need to change the amount allocated for that

[+Gemintronic]

In my experience running emulators for the PS2, PS3 and PSP on the VCS the graphics performance is pretty lacking.  It'd follow that modern gaming isn't going to be impressive either.

 

As long as your USB HDD is nVME based you should be good to go.  Something like the Crucial x8 1tb USB drive is ideal.

 

Can't say anything that you could do on the Windows optimization front.  Everything that would actually effect performance and stability is advanced stuff and sometimes gotcha prone.  I like to run a Windows AME slipstreamed install and then manually apply tweaks including using Classic Shell.

[hoagtech]

I would upgrade the ram and allocate more to GPU Framebuffer

 

Up your CPU wattage 

 

ETA Prime has a great guide that worked for me. 

 

 

This is the RAM if you want to upgrade to 32GB 3200 MHZ. Most 32GB 3200 mhz RAM is incompatible so buy this one exactly if you want it work. 

 

https://www.newegg.com/team-32gb-260-pin-ddr4-so-dimm/p/N82E16820331504

 

I'm receiving the Dock setup for external GPU tomorrow so look for an easy upgrade forum tutorial soon as well

[Mockduck]

On 3/6/2022 at 11:43 PM, hoagtech said:

I would upgrade the ram and allocate more to GPU Framebuffer

 

Up your CPU wattage 

 

ETA Prime has a great guide that worked for me. 

 

 

This is the RAM if you want to upgrade to 32GB 3200 MHZ. Most 32GB 3200 mhz RAM is incompatible so buy this one exactly if you want it work. 

 

https://www.newegg.com/team-32gb-260-pin-ddr4-so-dimm/p/N82E16820331504

 

I'm receiving the Dock setup for external GPU tomorrow so look for an easy upgrade forum tutorial soon as well

My understanding is that the BIOS access needed to let the whatever know about the extra RAM speed requires a password that currently is not known, though, right? 

[zzip]

9 minutes ago, Mockduck said:

My understanding is that the BIOS access needed to let the whatever know about the extra RAM speed requires a password that currently is not known, though, right? 

The password issue seems to only affect certain models.  

 

Try the known password and see if you can get in before upgrading

[THX-1138]

I personally would not recommend pushing the hardware upgrades beyond what Atari themselves recommend. For that, tinkering with the BIOS isn't needed.

Edited March 10, 2022 by THX-1138

[THX-1138]

On 3/3/2022 at 5:37 PM, zzip said:

My first thought is RAM,  do these games run on other systems with 8Gb RAM?      Unlike PC GPUs with dedicated RAM, I believe the VCS shares main memory with the GPU?   You may need to change the amount allocated for that

All AMD Ryzen APUs use main RAM for the integrated Vega GPU, even on desktop.  Only a separate GPU card would have its own memory.  The games are just Linux AMD64 binaries and run on other systems with 8GB.  I even run them on my Linux laptop that has only 4GB (and swap) just fine.

[hoagtech]

3 hours ago, THX-1138 said:

I personally would not recommend pushing the hardware upgrades beyond what Atari themselves recommend. For that, tinkering with the BIOS isn't needed.

Why would you not upgrade the Atari? There are so many good upgrades and 1,000’s of games to play and better performance to be had.. Also I don’t remember Atari recommending a limit to their upgrades.. 

 

I don’t understand where your coming from I guess..

 

Here’s Elden Ring playing like butter.. 

 

[Mockduck]

13 hours ago, hoagtech said:

Why would you not upgrade the Atari? There are so many good upgrades and 1,000’s of games to play and better performance to be had.. Also I don’t remember Atari recommending a limit to their upgrades.. 

 

I don’t understand where your coming from I guess..

 

Here’s Elden Ring playing like butter.. 

 

Man, that hurts to see you playing that while I can't even get Skatebird or Rocket League to run.

[digdugnate]

13 hours ago, hoagtech said:

Why would you not upgrade the Atari? There are so many good upgrades and 1,000’s of games to play and better performance to be had.. Also I don’t remember Atari recommending a limit to their upgrades.. 

 

I don’t understand where your coming from I guess..

 

Here’s Elden Ring playing like butter.. 

 

What external video card are you running?

[roots.genoa]

14 hours ago, hoagtech said:

Here’s Elden Ring playing like butter..

So you're using a video card and its own power supply outside of the VCS? That's not the most convenient way of upgrading a game system, but you do you.

Edited March 10, 2022 by roots.genoa

[Mockduck]

1 hour ago, roots.genoa said:

So you're using a video card and its own power supply outside of the VCS? That's not the most convenient way of upgrading a game system, but you do you.

I am such a PC expert I didn't even know this was possible. Have to admit it's pretty appealing to me.  Plug in and it just works? Yeah! Could also use it to boost up my laptop when needed for streaming for example.

[hoagtech]

3 hours ago, Mockduck said:

Man, that hurts to see you playing that while I can't even get Skatebird or Rocket League to run.

It runs very smoothly without the video card if you disable ambient occlusion, particle, bloom lighting, shadows, in 1080p at 60FPS as long you up the APU wattage to 54 watts, Upgrade the RAM to 32GB 3200 mhz, allocate 8GB to GPU framebuffer. Once again buy this exact RAM if you want it to work properly: https://www.newegg.com/team-32gb-260-pin-ddr4-so-dimm/p/N82E16820331504

 

To access the BIOS, you simply hit ESC, backspace or both while booting up and type in Piano18482 or Atar!C3l3br8te$50Ye4r$ when it asks for the password. The rest of the info is at the 6:55 mark of the video. 

 

3 hours ago, digdugnate said:

What external video card are you running?

Its just a 3GB GTX 1080. I was surprised how optimized Elden Ring is with this setup . 

 

3 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

So you're using a video card and its own power supply outside of the VCS? That's not the most convenient way of upgrading a game system, but you do you.

 

Currently it takes up more space than I would like but I'm waiting on my Beast external power connector So I can use an inline PSU with a single cord similar to an XBox 360 or Gamecube power supply to the card and ditch the ATX. And because its HDMI you can Extend the Video card connection through a cheap HDMI extension and set your video card somewhere away from your credenza. 

 

1 hour ago, Mockduck said:

I am such a PC expert I didn't even know this was possible. Have to admit it's pretty appealing to me.  Plug in and it just works? Yeah! Could also use it to boost up my laptop when needed for streaming for example.

Its plug and play once you install the plug. 

 

Take the 4 screws off the bottom and route the Beast plug into the PCI Express slot and then out the back vent

 

 

 

Once my case arrives. My video card will look more like a Nintendo Wii and I can enjoy staring at a little Atari to play my modern games. 

 

 

With the Dell cord setup I can power up to an RTX 3060ti, With the ATX I can power up to an RTX 3090. (Im bidding until I can get a 3060ti to run in the power cord Wii looking case)

 

If you run into a snag. I'm happy to help you get through it. 

 

 

 

 

 

[THX-1138]

On 3/10/2022 at 7:21 AM, hoagtech said:

Why would you not upgrade the Atari? There are so many good upgrades and 1,000’s of games to play and better performance to be had.. Also I don’t remember Atari recommending a limit to their upgrades.. 

 

I don’t understand where your coming from I guess..

 

Here’s Elden Ring playing like butter.. 

 

I am not against upgrading, I've added a M.2 drive and I will upgrade the RAM using the speed Atari and AMD recommend.

[stirrell]

On 3/10/2022 at 3:58 PM, Mockduck said:

Man, that hurts to see you playing that while I can't even get Skatebird or Rocket League to run.

Just curious - have you tried running games without the AMD drivers? I didn’t know about the drivers until I learned about them from you and after install, Steam started crashing on me. It may be a fluke or weird coincidence but figured it might be worth a try.

[Mockduck]

2 hours ago, stirrell said:

Just curious - have you tried running games without the AMD drivers? I didn’t know about the drivers until I learned about them from you and after install, Steam started crashing on me. It may be a fluke or weird coincidence but figured it might be worth a try.

Definitely something to keep in mind, especially if I end up giving the SSD a Windows refresh.

[hoagtech]

I wanted to set the record straight on a false claims I made unexpectedly. The start of the game is in caves and doesn't suffer from the open world.  

 

After getting out of the caves in Elden Ring I ended up getting a much worse frame rate and it did not "play like butter" in the open world. 

 

It was more like 27-42 FPS. 

 

I upgraded the card to RTX 3060 ti and it didnt change the performance too much. I'm still getting the same frame rate but changing the settings from low to high does not change my framerate at all. The CPU is dependent on loading certain assets in Elden ring and struggles to keep up on higher settings which makes sprites and background randomly appear even with the upgrade. 

 

My Tim espy had a jump but Elden Ring's dependency on CPU is whack on the latest updates. I'm sure if optimization for PC happened it would run smooth again but it still gets the most gameplay on my Atari

 

GTX 1060 eGPU: 

 

RTX 3060 ti eGPU: 

 

I got my case though and am looking forward to my output cord to make it a portable form factor 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[zzip]

On 3/18/2022 at 7:04 PM, hoagtech said:

After getting out of the caves in Elden Ring I ended up getting a much worse frame rate and it did not "play like butter" in the open world. 

 

It was more like 27-42 FPS. 

According to Digital Foundry,  framerate in ER is all over the place even on good PCs.    The only way to get a solid 60fps seems to be to play the PS4 version on a PS5.

[stirrell]

On 3/14/2022 at 12:04 AM, Mockduck said:

Definitely something to keep in mind, especially if I end up giving the SSD a Windows refresh.

Just wanted to follow up on this. I tried the AMD software again and experienced more problems with games not starting or crashing. I uninstalled the drivers and they started working fine.

 

I haven’t run any really intense games so I am not sure if I am missing something by not having AMD Adrenaline but performance seems good to me in Firewatch, Bioshock and Elder Scrolls IV. I’d be interested to hear from others if they are using the AMD drivers and what their experience has been.

[Mockduck]

10 hours ago, stirrell said:

Just wanted to follow up on this. I tried the AMD software again and experienced more problems with games not starting or crashing. I uninstalled the drivers and they started working fine.

 

I haven’t run any really intense games so I am not sure if I am missing something by not having AMD Adrenaline but performance seems good to me in Firewatch, Bioshock and Elder Scrolls IV. I’d be interested to hear from others if they are using the AMD drivers and what their experience has been.

Thanks for the reminder. I too ended up fairly recently doing a refresh of the Windows 10 installation on the SSD and didn't do the additional driver download. I can't say that it solved many of my problems; the games I want to run still don't run, including Rocket League. But in general I think you are onto something to probably not update those drivers unless you have a specific problem with your installed drivers.

[WAVE 1 GAMES]

7 minutes ago, Mockduck said:

Thanks for the reminder. I too ended up fairly recently doing a refresh of the Windows 10 installation on the SSD and didn't do the additional driver download. I can't say that it solved many of my problems; the games I want to run still don't run, including Rocket League. But in general I think you are onto something to probably not update those drivers unless you have a specific problem with your installed drivers.

I dont know about Rocket league or using any kind of external video card but after I put the 32 GB or RAM in my VCS I was able to run Wii U Mario Kart 8 and DKC Tropical Freeze on the Wii U emulator. They run flawlessly. I also have the PC version of DOOM ETERNAL running at 60 FPS. I am also using an external SSD for my PC based experience just like you say you are. Just do the RAM upgrade as the GPU shares the system RAM for video RAM

 

 

By the way I LOVE YOUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL! I SUBSCRIBED!!!

Edited April 24, 2022 by WAVE 1 GAMES