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This is what is ruining 2600 collecting

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1 hour ago, roadrunner said:

Grading is not going away.

No matter what you collect, every hobby seems to have graders, resellers or hoarders.


Happy collecting.
 

True, but in this case we are talking about a small group of the same people running both the grading and auction sites, selling specifically to each other, with press and PR support, in order to artificially inflate the overall perception of the market's value. Grading in general is just stupid, but this is either borderline illegal or maybe it should be, and that is the making of a specific collector price bubble that is likely to eventually burst.

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Posted (edited)

True enough. I always say just don't buy. And I don't. None of this stuff is more than a frivolous distraction to those believing they're true retrogamers.

 

One thing pissing me off at the moment is looking on ebay for a CL-GD5434 2MB ISA card. Even a 1MB CL-GD5422 low-end card goes for $50-$100. And the average is over $100, with some going as high as $200 - $500. Because "retro games".. Pffftt.. Fucking RETRO GAMES. DO YOU HEAR ME?

 

R E T R O  G A M E S

 

No! This is e-waste! Low-performance garbage. Stuff that's been rotting in landfills for the past 20 years! Way too many vintage 80's & 90's PC graphics cards listing in the $100-$300 range. Gotta remember this is scrap material and needs to be valued as such. So no no no, just no.

Edited by Keatah
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On 3/8/2022 at 8:36 PM, keithbk said:

Because Atari Adventure is a key plot point in the "Ready Player One" movie, I think it has a bigger value now than a few years ago, just by putting the title in front of all the younger generations. 

 

 

Anyone else find it annoying they put the Adventure "win" sound in for finding the Easter Egg, when the real game doesn't do that? LOL

I think any halo effect caused by the RP1 movie has since abated. Yes, it did cause a price spike around that time but since the movie's been out of the spotlight for awhile, prices have returned to mostly normal. 

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On 3/10/2022 at 3:16 PM, bikeguychicago said:

I think any halo effect caused by the RP1 movie has since abated. Yes, it did cause a price spike around that time but since the movie's been out of the spotlight for awhile, prices have returned to mostly normal. 

No, they haven't. I just auctioned off an excellent condition CIB Adventure, starting at a $9.99 opening bid. Final hammer was $146.50.

 

Nice complete boxed examples routinely go for over $100 on eBay.

 

A sealed, non-graded example just recently hammered on eBay for over $3,526.

 

-Chip

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Posted (edited)

You pretty much can get anything graded now. There are dozens of grading companies for practically anything. How good their reputation is, that's a guess. The scam with Wata is out there. Yes, they were bought by the company of PSA, which also owns an auction company. Wata was partnered with Heritage and yes, Heritage owners and Wata people were buying Wata NES games. I believe things were reported to the FTC, but there is always a way around most of the time.

 

True collectors don't care much about the most pristine items. As for the "ridiculous" price of sealed games, that's a judgment call. Some sealed product, such as this Adventure, is extremely rare to find in higher grade. People with money drop hundreds of thousands if not millions on frivolous stuff... boats, art, houses, antiques, memorabilia, etc. It's nothing for them and us little guys are usually the ones asking "WHY???". People with money just buy, then sell, then move on to other things. Whether they ruin a hobby is irrelevant to them. 

 

If you happen to own some stuff you can make money on because of these people, I say go for it. If you enjoy your hobby for what it is, then enjoy it. Don't fret. I'm a collector. I always have been since before teenage years. I happen to own a lot of stuff. I mean,  A LOT OF STUFF. I can make a mint off of what I have. Most items I can't sell because of my job, but hopefully when I do retire, all this stuff will be worth more. I've been buying and selling for almost 40 years now. I don't own a holy grail that would net me over $100k, but I probably do have some items that could break $10k, and definitely hundreds that will break a thousand. But most of this stuff I'd need to get graded. Grading costs money, Grading also costs time. I think one of my true gems is the 1986 Snoopy and the Red Baron. My copy is sealed and in very nice condition. This is truly rare. You barely see a boxed copy and you never see a sealed one (watch one pop on Ebay within the next few days). I just looked There is one 1986 boxed copy open with no manual. Anyway, it's all about condition. You can find SMB for the NES boxed all day, it's not rare. But try finding sealed copies, especially of specific variations. All you need is one or two buyers to create a market. "I have to own one" and if that person has money, they don't care if it's $100 or $10,000. 

 

When I owned my store in the 1990s, I always told people to buy what you like and if it went up in value, consider it a bonus. If you enjoyed your item for what it was, then hopefully you already got your money's worth. You can remember going to a movie, concert or sporting even, but you don't get the price of admission back. You eat a good meal for your anniversary, but you get nothing in return short of some nutrition and a trip to the bathroom. If you own a comic, you can read it over and over if you wish, or even share it afterwards. If you like your video game, you can play it over and over. If you collect cards or coins or stamps, or any type of art, you can look at them as much as  you want. In the end you can resell items you possess, hopefully for a profit, when you're done enjoying them or if you get bored or if you need money. But at least you can get a return if you are still in possession of them, even if it's at a loss.

 

So enjoy your collection and don't worry about the big boys. Most of those guys pass around the same high value stuff every few years just so they can make the news that they either sold or spent the most money ever on said item.

 

Phil

Edited by Philflound
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13 hours ago, Philflound said:

People with money drop hundreds of thousands if not millions on frivolous stuff... boats, art, houses, antiques, memorabilia, etc. It's nothing for them and us little guys are usually the ones asking "WHY???". People with money just buy, then sell, then move on to other things. Whether they ruin a hobby is irrelevant to them.

I bet many don't even know they're ruining a hobby. Or maybe they do.

 

I do know that when I see something I want I pull out all the guns and just take it by force, price irrelevant. Something for Apple II, I want it, I just bid $500 or $1000. And it's mine. And I sometimes feel bad for having done it thataway. Taking it away from someone that might actually use it, whereas with me there's a chance it'll go into a slowly collapsing-under-its-own-weight pile in the spare room. With all kinds of rot happening. Bit rot, paper fungus, disk fungus, rubber and plastic undergoing gelification. Or brittlizing. And whatever other decay is going on.

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My wife and I used to have the philosophy of trying to save items. When we saw cheap ceramic figurines at the thrift store, we'd buy them to keep them from little hands picking them up and breaking them. But as Bill Murray said in Scrooged, "You can't save everyone, Claire". If anything I collect was cheap enough and in decent shape, I'd save it. When I moved from NJ, I left behind like 20-25 copies of games like Asteroids and Missile Command (loose carts) because they weren't in the condition (still worked but labels were worn) and I didn't really have room for them. My mother packed everything I left behind and shipped it down here. I don't know if she saved that stuff because I haven't opened any of the boxes she packed. And there were at least a hundred. Eventually I'll go through all my stuff. My guess is I have at least 700-1000 boxes just sitting in my house. All my rooms are pretty much filled with unopened boxes. My wife is lazy and though we've been here almost 2 years in this house, not much has been done. Maybe I'll wait until I retire in another 15-20 years and then it'd be like Christmas. :)

 

\

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22 hours ago, Philflound said:

My wife and I used to have the philosophy of trying to save items. When we saw cheap ceramic figurines at the thrift store, we'd buy them to keep them from little hands picking them up and breaking them. But as Bill Murray said in Scrooged, "You can't save everyone, Claire". If anything I collect was cheap enough and in decent shape, I'd save it. When I moved from NJ, I left behind like 20-25 copies of games like Asteroids and Missile Command (loose carts) because they weren't in the condition (still worked but labels were worn) and I didn't really have room for them. My mother packed everything I left behind and shipped it down here. I don't know if she saved that stuff because I haven't opened any of the boxes she packed. And there were at least a hundred. Eventually I'll go through all my stuff. My guess is I have at least 700-1000 boxes just sitting in my house. All my rooms are pretty much filled with unopened boxes. My wife is lazy and though we've been here almost 2 years in this house, not much has been done. Maybe I'll wait until I retire in another 15-20 years and then it'd be like Christmas. :)

 

\

Yup I'm just as bad. I see something interesting at a thrift and think, "Hey maybe that will be worth something in 20 years!" So I buy it and keep it in a box. 20+ years later I'll open the box and look at it and think, "Now why in the hell did I buy that?" Too funny. Just going through some stuff here today I've not looked at in awhile and found an old PDA I used back in the 90's. Trying to get it to charge but I think it's dead. Well back in the box it'll go for another 20+ years. Maybe my nephews, nieces or great nieces will find it and wonder what it is. LOL 🤣😛

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On 3/8/2022 at 2:03 PM, CapitanClassic said:

I don't really do video game collecting any more, and am much happier with a Harmony cart (or other flashcart) and original hardware, or even emulation.
 

These prices won’t last forever though. Adventure (1980) should have hit its price peak about 25 - 35 years (2005-2015) after its release, when nostalgia kicks in and people have hit their peak earning years. Everyone who wanted a copy of the game likely bought a copy years ago. Eventually people die, and the market for people who grew up with these games (or transferred their excitement to their kids) disappears. At that point (65-75 years), the majority of those games are just old peoples junk, and most will end up in the dump.

 

Just hope you aren’t the sucker holding the bag when this bubble collapses. It will by 2055 (or earlier).

Yes, no one wants Action Comics#1, or Babe Ruth Baseball cards anymore.  The only reason old Atari games aren't worth much is because they made so many of them.  You can get most of the still brand new in the box.  No one wanted a boxed copy of Adventure until that movie came out.

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10 hours ago, reklen said:

Yes, no one wants Action Comics#1, or Babe Ruth Baseball cards anymore.  The only reason old Atari games aren't worth much is because they made so many of them.  You can get most of the still brand new in the box.  No one wanted a boxed copy of Adventure until that movie came out.

Yeah, no one wants comics or baseball cards from the late 1980s and early 1990s anymore. Adventure sold over a million copies, it is difficult to find buyers who care about a cellophane wrap. No one was willing to pay much for a sealed Adventure game until WATA scammed the market.

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IIRC you can list a certain number of items for free on eBay, so there is really no cost to letting those sealed Atari games sit on eBay for months on end hoping for a sucker to come along.

 

Last time I checked sealed 2600 games on HA were cooling off, so I think that guy will be sitting on that stock for awhile unless he decides to take a bath.

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I remember reading that plenty of ebay sellers will include one or a handful of ridiculously priced games as a way of generating links to their online store... 🤔

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Posted (edited)
On 3/10/2022 at 12:38 PM, roadrunner said:

Grading is not going away.

No matter what you collect, every hobby seems to have graders, resellers or hoarders.


Happy collecting.
 

And scalpers

 

Good morning 

D. 

Edited by delmero
Put my signature and give good morning to Atari Age

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You know, after soaking all this in for over 25 years online, the only constant in this hobby, is people blaming other people for selling games as ruining the hobby.

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The video game market is huge.   People are going to try to sell things on the high end.   Don't let it bother you or disrupt your game collecting.  Sealed collecting has been around a bit and is definitely not for the mainstream game collector.   I do not own a single graded game.   Going to a recent game swap meet there were some excellent priced non graded Atari games.   Celebrate what you can still find and support the local game stores and sellers that you like.   

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On 3/10/2022 at 10:38 AM, roadrunner said:

Grading is not going away.

No matter what you collect, every hobby seems to have graders, resellers or hoarders.


Happy collecting.
 

Unfortunately, you're correct.

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Honestly, grading is so ludicrous that I just don't think it has much of an effect on non-graded items.  Plus most graded stuff is sealed, and frankly if you're collecting majority sealed games, probably should see a good shrink (no pun) by now.  In stuff like comics or sports cards, where there is an astounding amount of graded crap, there remains a majority trade out there in non-graded items that actual collectors and casuals still buy and sell.  Again, the graded prices are so off the wall, the gap is simply monstrous.  The sellers who price stuff according to grades, that stuff never sells, it just sits there.

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5 hours ago, delmero said:

And scalpers

 

Good morning 

D. 

It's this way with PC parts too. For a long while it's been GPUs being scalped. And for a short instant it was TPM modules. Now their attention is turning to the new DDR RAM standard, and some used motherboards.

 

The best thing the small-time gamer & collector can do is avoid the bandwagon. Get on with with playing your games. Get on with building your small collection. And if you're into PC, avoid all the latest'n'greatest overpriced beta products just coming out. Look for last year's tech.

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What's ruining 2600 collecting is that all of YOU keep participating and taking away MY holy grail R10s for $2.99!.....

 

 

..... it's like Cobra Kai said, sour grapes are sour grapes no matter the time.

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20 hours ago, Keatah said:

It's this way with PC parts too. For a long while it's been GPUs being scalped. And for a short instant it was TPM modules. Now their attention is turning to the new DDR RAM standard, and some used motherboards.

 

The best thing the small-time gamer & collector can do is avoid the bandwagon. Get on with with playing your games. Get on with building your small collection. And if you're into PC, avoid all the latest'n'greatest overpriced beta products just coming out. Look for last year's tech.

Yes indeed, I have a Computer Sciences degree and the thing that knocks it out of the park are the video graphics cards like GNvidia. I'm not looking there. 

 

For game collecting

I'm doing this: I scour online game stores and it doesn't matter if I have the console or not, if a game is at a reasonable price I buy it. 

Recently I bought Menacer 6 cart for Sega Genesis (MegaDrive in Europe) although I don't have the accessories. Over time I'll get them, I do happen to have the console. 

 

Regards 

D. 

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When it comes to graded items, you have to take into effect the cost of shipping the item to the grading company, the grading cost, and the shipping back to you. For a comic book, you are looking at a minimum of probably $30-35. High end can cost you a mint. People put prices on items to see if anyone bites, or like someone said, maybe to generate traffic to their store. I own something that is hot right now. My particular item is rarer than most of the others of the same item because it contains something that 99% of the others do not. My item is the highest graded one with that added bonus. I gave it to a friend to sell for me and literally I'm asking double what the going rate is in that same condition. So far, no bites, but it gets lots of looks. If I'm desperate, I can take a little bit lower and sell it instantly. But for now, I'm content with letting it sit out there being oogled at shows.

 

As for sports cards from the 1980s and 1990s, you're starting to see an increase in activity. Even non-sport Topps from the late 80s to early 90s that were dumped on the market with that black slash on top of the boxes are starting to see interest. These items are now 30+ years old. What you always have to consider is even though there is a ton out there, mishaps happen and supply eventually dwindles. When I first moved to Florida  6 years ago, the truck I had moved stuff in caught fire. I lost 17 long boxes of comic books. A couple of years later, the Extra Space storage I was renting had the roof leak. I lost another 6 long boxes. This may not seem like much, but it adds up and when hurricanes, floods and fires happen, those items are lost forever.

 

So there will always be jackasses out there pricing stuff way high and never selling it. For whatever reason they do it, it's their right. There will always be people with money that have nothing better to spend it on and throw it at a hobby. Most of us will never in our lifetime see a holy grail of any sort in any hobby. But like I've said before, buy what you like and enjoy it. I love small independent comics. I'm not talking about Image, Dark Horse, Valiant, etc. Small press and smaller companies. Just from the 1980s-1990s I have about 23 long boxes of these types of comics. Every time I see something that peaks my interest that I don't own, I grab it. I can go online and fill in gaps pretty cheap but usually choose not to. The thrill of the hunt. I think part of collecting IS finding stuff in the wild, even if it's not the holy grail.

 

Phil

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@Philflound

I'm sorry you lost your boxes, I Iost a collection of books: Harry Potter and A Series of Unfortunate Events. 

 

Loose Books like Memoirs of a Geisha etc. 

 

The Harry Potter books I won't be getting, the author J. K. Rowling is a big Nope. 

 

The others I'll be getting

 

Thanks for sharing 

D. 

 

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On 3/21/2022 at 12:18 PM, delmero said:

I lost a collection of books: Harry Potter and A Series of Unfortunate Events. 

[...]

The Harry Potter books I won't be getting, the author J. K. Rowling is a big Nope. 

 

Book collecting has not yet been taken over by resellers and there is no formal grading system (though most rare/antiquarian dealers have their own grading system for high-value items). Part of it is that there are so very, very many booksellers. These range from high-end specialist dealers to yard sales to the "free" shelf of books in the laundry room of my apartment building. It is just not physically possible for a reseller to check every possible source for inventory, and most vendors are more interest in clearing space than getting rich.

 

One example -- a local charity was selling all books for like $5/bag (and people could provide their own bag of any size). Most of the stuff was old textbooks and battered romance novels, but I found a 1950s book about Princess (now Queen) Elizabeth. This is worth easily $100 per ABE Books. I did not buy it to resell, but rather as a gift for my Mother (who actively collects Royalty books).

 

I am not interested in Harry Potter myself, but the books were printed in vast numbers, so it should be easy to acquire second-hand copies of the whole set. Presumably Rowling would not receive any royalties or other benefits from secondary (and tertiary) purchasers of the books. 

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30 minutes ago, jhd said:

 

Book collecting has not yet been taken over by resellers and there is no formal grading system (though most rare/antiquarian dealers have their own grading system for high-value items). Part of it is that there are so very, very many booksellers. These range from high-end specialist dealers to yard sales to the "free" shelf of books in the laundry room of my apartment building. It is just not physically possible for a reseller to check every possible source for inventory, and most vendors are more interest in clearing space than getting rich.

 

One example -- a local charity was selling all books for like $5/bag (and people could provide their own bag of any size). Most of the stuff was old textbooks and battered romance novels, but I found a 1950s book about Princess (now Queen) Elizabeth. This is worth easily $100 per ABE Books. I did not buy it to resell, but rather as a gift for my Mother (who actively collects Royalty books).

 

I am not interested in Harry Potter myself, but the books were printed in vast numbers, so it should be easy to acquire second-hand copies of the whole set. Presumably Rowling would not receive any royalties or other benefits from secondary (and tertiary) purchasers of the books. 

Oh yes indeed, the most valuable books I've seen on one TV show (I don't remember the name) are those very antique books by authors like Charles Dickens, Mark Twain etc. 

In one episode the buyer had a lady who was an expert in antique books examine a very old book, she stated it was a first edition because first editions often have orthographic errors that are corrected in subsequent printings. 

The buyer told the seller that if the book had its dust jacket he would have given him much more money. 

About Rowling, she had expressed some controversial beliefs against a specific group of people.

It isn't correct to spread hate and be a bully. 

 

Your idea about resellers I didn't remember about it, thanks for your kindness. 

😊

D. 

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