Is the Amico dead?

[MrBeefy]

8 minutes ago, mr_me said:

Snafoo was a pack-in at one time but that was a change made early-on.  They've made several changes during the development of the system.  Where was it promised that Snafoo would be a pack-in?

On AtariAge by the former CEO.

[mr_me]

Yes he shared a lot of what they were working on and what they had planned.  That's different than promising it would be a packin.

Edited April 12, 2022 by mr_me

[MrBeefy]

Just now, mr_me said:

Yes he shared a lot of what they were working on what they had planned.  That's different than promising it would be a packin.

There comes a point when almost everything changes you have to accept that either there was a bunch of lying and puffery or they had zero direction and focus.

 

Considering their current financial situation with zero product I think the second one is a given at this point in time.

 

The constant changing of stories is why you can't rely on what the company says. It has a history of changing with the wind to fit what they need in that moment.

[MrBeefy]

January 2020 and they didn't know what games were pack ins to be released in approximately 9 months?

 

To further show they can't really be taken for their word much here is where the former CEO denied ever having said it.

 

I saved everyone the trouble of reading the entire thing and just highlighted the relevant part.

 

Former CEO has probably delivered more MISINFORMATION than anyone in the realm of Amico. Ask yourself why that is?

[mr_me]

At that time, Snafoo was a pack-in.  That's not misinformation.  Snafoo was replaced with Shark Shark, another dpad only game and a favourite of many Intellivision fans.

 

Now he said he won't let the guy down.  That may have happened because of the delays, but that's not promising any title as a packin.

Edited April 12, 2022 by mr_me

[flynnz]

22 minutes ago, mr_me said:

At that time, Snafoo was a pack-in.  That's not misinformation.  Snafoo was replaced with Shark Shark, another dpad only game and a favourite of many Intellivision fans.

Call it whatever you want, but it showcases just why TT should not have been the talking head of the company. He should have only told people what was all set and actually "on the launch pad" and ready to ship. It just seemed so amatuer the way he would constantly say things declaratively only to have them change later.

Edited April 12, 2022 by flynnz

[mr_me]

It was all stuff that would normally not have been shared publicly.  Target prices and release dates before any engineering work had been done.  Projects like this can undergo changes and delays over its development and not normally revealed to the public until ready.  Nobody was required to put money in to buy one and they didn't even start taking pre-orders until 2020.  Pre-orders probably should have waited until they got to manufacturing.  Still, I'm happy I got to hear about all the developments there.  Don't understand why others are offended. 

Edited April 12, 2022 by mr_me

[flynnz]

8 minutes ago, mr_me said:

It was all stuff that would normally not have been shared publicly.  

Exactly right and do you know why that is? For exactly the reason I mentioned above, it makes you and your company look amateur. I am sure there tons of other companies excited to share things on a forum with their potential customers, but they know better.

Just curious in regards to the Amico, can you name 5 things you think TT did that were great and 5 things you think were flat out terrible? 

Edited April 12, 2022 by flynnz

[Razzie.P]

37 minutes ago, mr_me said:

Don't understand why others are offended. 

You really don't?  Or is that just you-being-you and fighting the good fight, no matter how absurd?  You got dem smarts, for sure -- enough to work up an explanation to tell someone why they would be wrong for saying "water is wet," but can't understand why people might be offended?

 

 

Based on your lines of reasoning, it seems no company should ever be held accountable for what they say when they don’t deliver.   Just sweep it to the side and claim “they adapted…  they were working through it… it was a development change….  please understand….”

 

Something about spending $$$ based on the company’s word/BS has a tendency to offend people, I’d imagine.

 

It was rarely worded as “we plan to include…” or “we hope to add…”   Look at the example above – it states “I am also including the new version...”   In all caps and calling it an AA Exclusive, even.  

 

Some people paid money based on those promises, and may never see a refund.  Some people bought “physical games” with no game included based on promises and while it may happen, it’s sure not looking good at the moment.
 

[crade]

35 minutes ago, flynnz said:

Exactly right and do you know why that is? For exactly the reason I mentioned above, it makes you and your company look amateur. I am sure there tons of other companies excited to share things on a forum with their potential customers, but they know better.

Just curious in regards to the Amico, can you name 5 things you think TT did that were great and 5 things you think were flat out terrible? 

I tried, but could barely come up with anything for the terrible list..  Props!

 

Earthworm Jim Music,

Earthworm Jim2 Music,

Oddworld Abe's Oddysee Music,

Alladin,

Advent Rising

 

Amico

 

[roots.genoa]

6 minutes ago, crade said:

Earthworm Jim Music,

Earthworm Jim2 Music,

Oddworld Abe's Oddysee Music,

Alladin,

Advent Rising

Tommy Tallarico did not Oddworld's music even though, to be fair, he's not credited for EarthWorm Jim music either.

Also I find interesting he's not the sole composer credited for Aladdin and Advent Rising, and I wouldn't be surprised if the other guy did most of the job, to be honest. ?

[MrBeefy]

1 hour ago, mr_me said:

At that time, Snafoo was a pack-in.  That's not misinformation.  Snafoo was replaced with Shark Shark, another dpad only game and a favourite of many Intellivision fans.

 

Now he said he won't let the guy down.  That may have happened because of the delays, but that's not promising any title as a packin.

Is SNAFOO a pack in? No. Did he say it was? Yes. He was the CEO when he made the statement, so it isn't more official than that.

 

He is delivering incorrect answers about his company to not only customers but investors as well (MISINFORMATION). It is also ignoring that the launch line up probably should have been set. Yet another example of no direction and focus.

 

Not to mention he flat out lied about saying it to begin with. They have been inconsistent and quite frankly that is on them. If they don't want to be held to the things they say they should have shut up until they had an actual product ready.

 

Instead it is continual moving of goalposts, lies, and/or puffery to extract more money. They are inconsistent and misleading with almost everything they do. 

[MrBeefy]

20 minutes ago, roots.genoa said:

Tommy Tallarico did not Oddworld's music even though, to be fair, he's not credited for EarthWorm Jim music either.

Also I find interesting he's not the sole composer credited for Aladdin and Advent Rising, and I wouldn't be surprised if the other guy did most of the job, to be honest. ?

Mark Miller did a good job I think.

[mr_me]

28 minutes ago, Razzie.P said:

You really don't?  Or is that just you-being-you and fighting the good fight, no matter how absurd?  You got dem smarts, for sure -- enough to work up an explanation to tell someone why they would be wrong for saying "water is wet," but can't understand why people might be offended?

 

 

Based on your lines of reasoning, it seems no company should ever be held accountable for what they say when they don’t deliver.   Just sweep it to the side and claim “they adapted…  they were working through it… it was a development change….  please understand….”

 

Something about spending $$$ based on the company’s word/BS has a tendency to offend people, I’d imagine.

 

It was rarely worded as “we plan to include…” or “we hope to add…”   Look at the example above – it states “I am also including the new version...”   In all caps and calling it an AA Exclusive, even.  

 

Some people paid money based on those promises, and may never see a refund.  Some people bought “physical games” with no game included based on promises and while it may happen, it’s sure not looking good at the moment.
 

I'm talking about changes to the product over it's development.  Obviously people are let down by the delays, as I already said.  If Snafoo not being a packin was a problem they were issuing preorder deposit refunds long after that change was made.  Something they could have avoided if they held off until they were in manufacturing as I suggested.  I think it was a mistake selling the boxed games before the system is released.  It was not limited production and completely optional for buyers.  They are accountable to their shareholders and investors.  If Snafoo not being a packin was a problem, it was known long before the Republic investment campaign closed.  If they don't deliver a return to investors, they'll be let down, but that's the risk of investing.

 

9 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

Is SNAFOO a pack in? No. Did he say it was? Yes. He was the CEO when he made the statement, so it isn't more official than that.

...

At the time it was said, it was a packin.

[MrBeefy]

20 minutes ago, mr_me said:

At the time it was said, it was a packin.

It is incorrect information.

 

Edit: And still shows the inability to be consistent.

Edited April 12, 2022 by MrBeefy
Pandemic ate SNAFOO!

[crade]

13 minutes ago, mr_me said:

At the time it was said, it was a packin.

At the time it was said, packins for amico didn't exist (and they still don't).  He said it would be a packin when they existed, now they changed their mind and it's no longer planned to be one (which is totally fine, except he had to throw a fit and lie about never claiming it would be one), at no point was it ever a packin..  Being in a list of planned packin's doesn't make it a packin any more than it makes me an Amico owner

[mr_me]

He didn't claim it wasn't a packin nor is he denying he said it would be a packin.  What he said was that it wasn't a promise. 

 

Snafoo was a game that had issues during its development.  We were told the game was scrapped and started over.  That's when it was replaced as a pack-in.  It's still listed in their faq but not among the ones expected around launch.  That's for people for whom Snafoo might be a dealbreaker.

Edited April 12, 2022 by mr_me

[Rev]

How in the world would a simple game like Snafoo have dev problems?  
 

Technical issues during development?

 

Or administration/company issues during development?

 

I bet Gaterooze could make it in a day. 

[Razzie.P]

1 hour ago, mr_me said:

 They are accountable to their shareholders and investors. 

"... and to their customers who pre-ordered with the promise (in writing) that the deposit is 100% refundable," I'm sure you meant to add.  Or was that promise only good "at the time" since things changed over the course of development?

 

Reminds me of the Sony mess when they sold a system with Linux, then later took it out.  One class action lawsuit later, and their fans were arguing that Sony did no wrong since "it had Linux when it was purchased, and things changed over the course of the system's life."   Cost them millions to settle, if I remember correctly.

 

 

[SegaSnatcher]

1 minute ago, Rev said:

How in the world would a simple game like Snafoo have dev problems?  

It's pretty simple, they hired College students with little development experience to work on these games.   Nothing against those College students, but it was always going to be an issue being so heavily reliant on them.  

 

[mr_me]

26 minutes ago, Razzie.P said:

"... and to their customers who pre-ordered with the promise (in writing) that the deposit is 100% refundable," I'm sure you meant to add.  Or was that promise only good "at the time" since things changed over the course of development?

 

Reminds me of the Sony mess when they sold a system with Linux, then later took it out.  One class action lawsuit later, and their fans were arguing that Sony did no wrong since "it had Linux when it was purchased, and things changed over the course of the system's life."   Cost them millions to settle, if I remember correctly.

 

 

 

People were getting refunds promptly for a while. It became a problem when we learned they're running out of cash.  You can't get blood out of a stone.

 

With Sony, the difference is that the product was sold and delivered, the change came after.  With Amico, whether it's a deposit, prepayment, partial payment, a sale is not complete until the product is delivered.  Customers may have a right to a refund, although collecting has recently become an issue.  They do have to deliver Amico as advertised but that's still a while away.

 

31 minutes ago, Rev said:

How in the world would a simple game like Snafoo have dev problems?  
 

Technical issues during development?

 

Or administration/company issues during development?

 

I bet Gaterooze could make it in a day. 

Maybe the developer quit the project and they had to find another. We were just told they had to start over.  Maybe they also decided Shark Shark makes a better pack-in.

Edited April 12, 2022 by mr_me

[crade]

2 hours ago, mr_me said:

He didn't claim it wasn't a packin nor is he denying he said it would be a packin.  What he said was that it wasn't a promise. 

 

Snafoo was a game that had issues during its development.  We were told the game was scrapped and started over.  That's when it was replaced as a pack-in.  It's still listed in their faq but not among the ones expected around launch.  That's for people for whom Snafoo might be a dealbreaker.

lol if he is hanging his hat on "i didnt say the words 'i solomly swear on a stack of bibles so i never broke my promise'"..  i got nothing to say..  that could make sense as to how he acts.  

 

edit:  i take it back..  i'll say it is as much and as little of a "promise" as anything else i've ever seen or heard come from him, so it all goes in one bucket, the one that he is hugely offended anyone ever expected him to honor

Edited April 13, 2022 by crade

[MrBeefy]

2 hours ago, mr_me said:

He didn't claim it wasn't a packin nor is he denying he said it would be a packin.  What he said was that it wasn't a promise. 

 

Snafoo was a game that had issues during its development.  We were told the game was scrapped and started over.  That's when it was replaced as a pack-in.  It's still listed in their faq but not among the ones expected around launch.  That's for people for whom Snafoo might be a dealbreaker.

So by your logic he had no clue what he was talking about. This goes with IE's inability to show focus or that they have a plan. The CEO couldn't even accurately ID a game as a pack in.

2 hours ago, mr_me said:

 

1) People were getting refunds promptly for a while. It became a problem when we learned they're running out of cash.  You can't get blood out of a stone.

 

2)Maybe the developer quit the project and they had to find another. We were just told they had to start over.  Maybe they also decided Shark Shark makes a better pack-in.

1) tlThey better find a way to get blood out of the turnips since they promised it was 100% refundable. But another lie from them. Guy I know still hasn't got his back and IE hasn't even responded to PayPal. This shows their inability to keep their word.

 

2) With everything going on Ocams Razor would suggest they stopped paying devs which is why you saw little to no progress on a lot of games. That also brings in how the CCO presented a game with stolen assets. They probably stopped paying, dev stopped working, and like with Cornhole they probably tried to salvage it and were too dumb to realize there were stolen items from two different tank games or too cheap and cut corners thinking that anything on PngWing was free to use (one of their Cornhole boards was on there too )

 

47 minutes ago, crade said:

lol if he is hanging his hat on "i didnt say the words 'i solomly swear on a stack of bibles so i never broke my promise'"..  i got nothing to say..  that could make sense as to how he acts.  

 

edit:  i take it back..  i'll say it is as much and as little of a "promise" as anything else i've ever seen or heard come from him, so it all goes in one bucket, the one that he is hugely offended anyone ever expected him to honor

That just means anytime he opens his mouth you can't trust what he says. That is a lack of integrity on him. Which then goes back to years of puffery and everything was said to look positive but not be truthful.

[+lawdawg710]

I am so confused as to why mr me is choosing to so vehemently defend the Amico, given the direct slaps in the face to supporters from that company in the last few months, not to mention the SEC filing and obvious lies and deceit that has been cast out about the hardware and software.

 

It is commendable to be a fanboy but even fanboys need to be able to realize a ship is sinking when they are knee deep in water on the top deck.  

 

The Amico IS dead, even if it comes out, there will be little support for it and like others have said itll be a novelty item and paperweight!!!  

[flynnz]

20 minutes ago, lawdawg710 said:

I am so confused as to why mr me is choosing to so vehemently defend the Amico

On the one hand I really respect Mr me for defending what he believes in and in the respectful way he communicates. But on the other hand, I am really shocked that he doesn't see why it is so odd that he is the only one defending Amico/TT at this point. I mean, when does it kick in that thinking 'everyone else is wrong' is probably not that rational. 

Edited April 13, 2022 by flynnz