Is the Amico dead?

[Rev]

1 minute ago, Cebus Capucinis said:

Ah, the Mario Kart approach.

In Mario Kart, are the power ups set in a specific predetermined location from the start of the game, OR do they appear in front of the losing player?     I actually dont know. 
 

Putting power ups on purpose in front of a bad player sounds like cheating! And “everyone gets a trophy” crap.

To each their own….

[Cebus Capucinis]

1 minute ago, Rev said:

In Mario Kart, are the power ups set in a specific predetermined location from the start of the game, OR do they appear in front of the losing player?     I actually dont know. 
 

Putting power ups on purpose in front of a bad player sounds like cheating! And “everyone gets a trophy” crap.

To each their own….

I guess I just mean like in Mario Kart, the player in front only sees certain power ups whereas the 8/8 player can get better ones, etc., even though they're just in the predetermined spots.

[MrBeefy]

17 minutes ago, Downland1983 said:

It seems to me they are absolutely paying for parts twice, considering the $1.35 million paid to Ark Electronics for components that IE admitted they have not and may never receive or the cash back that was used to purchase them.  Since they have or will have to repurchase those components from someone else, the components themselves are being paid for twice.  I made sure to mention that in the tail end of my post, which you edited out in your reply.

I think it's safe to say they've mismanaged a lot of stuff. Word is they had a chance to secure everything at $150 and make $100 per console and passed up on that.

 

I would be willing to bet they breached a contract with Ark or something or thought they could buy the parts from them and have someone else manufacture. Either way that it literally over a million dollars they might as well have set on fire and roasted some hotdogs with at one of their office parties.

[MrBeefy]

4 minutes ago, Rev said:

In Mario Kart, are the power ups set in a specific predetermined location from the start of the game, OR do they appear in front of the losing player?     I actually dont know. 
 

Putting power ups on purpose in front of a bad player sounds like cheating! And “everyone gets a trophy” crap.

To each their own….

In MK you still have to hit a power up block when driving. Those in front will get weaker weapons while those in last will get stronger ones.

 

I know people don't like rubber banding and such but MK didn't feel that bad.

 

Big Brain Academy on Switch has a different way to do it that I think works well. You might get the same puzzle but it could be slightly more difficult to do for one person. So me and a young kid could still compete but also be on our own level.

 

Honestly in Shark Shark you could remove the screen and have a power up system like MK.

[Cebus Capucinis]

My off the cuff, completely based on no facts (but educated guess as I draft these types of contracts) conjecture is that the underlying supply agreement with Ark had either a most favored nations clause OR an exclusivity clause (i.e. they either had to buy only from Ark OR had to make sure Ark got the best price).

 

My guess is, whether because of shortages, the pandemic, or just pigheadedness (I suspect a combination of all), they breached the agreement by attempting to go to another supplier. Certainly, if Ark's agreement was worth its salt, it was a material breach to do so, and Ark could keep the $ as liquidated damages (especially if they'd already started manufacturing).

 

The legal question would be whether, if caused by the pandemic, a force majeure situation or impossibility/impracticability would be a defense to such a breach. My guess is, if the breach was a breach of exclusivity, probably not, but I'd have to read the agreement.

 

I can certainly see a knee-jerk, pandemic-caused freakout leading to "WE HAVE TO FIND ANOTHER SUPPLIER ASAP!" - consequences be damned attitude. I wouldn't even really fault IE for that. Plenty of others did that. Nonetheless, I do agree that $1.3M down the drain is a terrible outcome for an already cash-strapped entity.

[Rev]

6 minutes ago, Cebus Capucinis said:

I guess I just mean like in Mario Kart, the player in front only sees certain power ups whereas the 8/8 player can get better ones, etc., even though they're just in the predetermined spots.

Thats what i thought.  Predetermined spots is fine.  An even playing field. Karma isnt an even playing field. Maybe Amico will have an option to disable Karma. 

[Cebus Capucinis]

A second assumption I'm making is that Ark is a Chinese supplier. If so, the contract may have been governed by Chinese law, which would likely be much less favorable toward IE to begin with, though admittedly I know absolutely nothing about Chinese contract law. Either way, I'd suspect if it had to be disputed in China, the home court will be a little more likely to side with the domestic manufacturer than the "idea guys."

 

I also can't say whether COVID would be a valid avoidance argument, whether here or there. A lot of contracts post-pandemic have added "COVID clauses" where the parties explicitly acknowledge and agree that COVID doesn't count for purposes of impossibility/impracticability because it's now a "known quantity."

[number6]

22 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

I think we will know more after NDAs are up. At that point will we care or be discussing the next retro brand bought by someone trying to hook gamers with nostalgia bait?

You don't have to buy a brand to do this (obviously). Retro Games Ltd. has achieved success by just licensing what they require for their products.

Given that the parent companies that the products relate to are all constantly in court and/or fighting with trademark authorities, it is rather remarkable what they have been able to achieve.

 

#6

[Tommy2D]

32 minutes ago, Cebus Capucinis said:

Ah, the Mario Kart approach.

Yeah. It's hard to improve on the classics.

 

Here's an innovative idea: have the lead car randomly break down.  Then for added realism, use the Amico controller touch screen to show an incoming call about the car's extended warranty. 

[Razzie.P]

12 hours ago, mr_me said:

It shouldn't affect competitive play.

 

3 hours ago, mr_me said:

 

That's right, it's not meant for single player or cooperative game modes.

 

30 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

Pick a lane. ?

 

 

That made me laugh a bit.  I was reading those and my thought was --- If it doesn't impact Competitive, Single player, or co-op, what does it impact?  Attract mode?  Title screen? 

 

 

20 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

I know people don't like rubber banding and such but MK didn't feel that bad.

 

 

Many of us feel that things like the Blue Shell ruin Mario Kart entirely.  Not much fun to run a perfect race only to get hit by a blue shell right before the finish line and then come in 4th or so.

[Cebus Capucinis]

4 minutes ago, Tommy2D said:

Here's an innovative idea: have the lead car randomly break down.  Then for added realism, use the Amico controller touch screen to show an incoming call about the car's extended warranty. 

Wouldn't That Be Something?™️

 

Or you have to go to a used car lot to buy a replacement.....and the sleazy salesman has a suspiciously familiar Poochie-esque look about him...™️

[MrBeefy]

7 minutes ago, Cebus Capucinis said:

A second assumption I'm making is that Ark is a Chinese supplier. If so, the contract may have been governed by Chinese law, which would likely be much less favorable toward IE to begin with, though admittedly I know absolutely nothing about Chinese contract law. Either way, I'd suspect if it had to be disputed in China, the home court will be a little more likely to side with the domestic manufacturer than the "idea guys."

 

I also can't say whether COVID would be a valid avoidance argument, whether here or there. A lot of contracts post-pandemic have added "COVID clauses" where the parties explicitly acknowledge and agree that COVID doesn't count for purposes of impossibility/impracticability because it's not a "known quantity."

Either way, I think it is safe to assume it was a lack of planning and foresight. Heck I've still yet to hear a plan that doesn't seem to be about selling the company or finding an investor willing to burn their money.

 

If they are not manufacturing now, summer is out. If they don't have enough money for parts then it sounds like, 2023 is a best possible scenario.

 

They can't even show a production ready box without glaring errors so I question if 2023 is a bit too optimistic.

[Tommy2D]

5 minutes ago, Razzie.P said:

Many of us feel that things like the Blue Shell ruin Mario Kart entirely.  Not much fun to run a perfect race only to get hit by a blue shell right before the finish line and then come in 4th or so.

I haven't played a ton of Mario Kart (mostly single player on GBA).  Is there a way to turn off blue shells, in multiplayer?

Edited March 25, 2022 by Tommy2D

[MrBeefy]

4 minutes ago, Razzie.P said:

 

That made me laugh a bit.  I was reading those and my thought was --- If it doesn't impact Competitive, Single player, or co-op, what does it impact?  Attract mode?  Title screen? 

 

Many of us feel that things like the Blue Shell ruin Mario Kart entirely.  Not much fun to run a perfect race only to get hit by a blue shell right before the finish line and then come in 4th or so.

Yeah I can see the blue shell being a drag when hit right at the end. I'm alright with stars and such though. I wouldn't say the blue shell ruins it. I'm trying to think of when the blue shell was introduced. It wasn't in SNES or GBA (from what I remember).

[MrBeefy]

1 minute ago, Tommy2D said:

I haven't played a ton of Mario Kart (mostly single player on GBA).  Is there a way to turn off blue shells, in multiplayer?

I still think the GBA one is one of the better ones. I don't think you can turn off blue shells.

[Cebus Capucinis]

2 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

Yeah I can see the blue shell being a drag when hit right at the end. I'm alright with stars and such though. I wouldn't say the blue shell ruins it. I'm trying to think of when the blue shell was introduced. It wasn't in SNES or GBA (from what I remember).

I believe it was DS/Wii. Definitely not in 64. (EDIT: Apparently it was 64!)

 

People have been clamoring for an option to turn it off since then. Don't know whether they actually did it or not (haven't played Nintendo systems since Wii).

[MrBeefy]

Just now, Cebus Capucinis said:

I believe it was DS/Wii. Definitely not in 64.

Part of me thinks it was in 64 but not annoyingly perfected. I do think it was for sure in DS and Wii.

[Cebus Capucinis]

Not to derail this too much, but wasn't F Zero really bad about rubberbanding? I recall being really frustrated with ships magically being able to go 3x their top speed for no good reason.

 

Either way, other than cheezy power up spamming and rubberbanding I can't really see any other way for this Karma thingie (whether it exists or not!) to be anything but disdained. Unless you're playing with kids, I guess, (in before the "well of course, that's the primary market" reply).

[mr_me]

15 minutes ago, Razzie.P said:

 --- If it doesn't impact Competitive, Single player, or co-op, what does it impact?  Attract mode?  Title screen? 

If two players are close to each other skill wise, you wouldn't want game balancing effects just because one is losing.  That's a competitive game.  If one player is destroying the other, than the weaker player is not being competitive.  That's when it can be used.

Edited March 25, 2022 by mr_me

[number6]

46 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

Either way, I think it is safe to assume it was a lack of planning and foresight. Heck I've still yet to hear a plan that doesn't seem to be about selling the company or finding an investor willing to burn their money.

 

If they are not manufacturing now, summer is out. If they don't have enough money for parts then it sounds like, 2023 is a best possible scenario.

 

They can't even show a production ready box without glaring errors so I question if 2023 is a bit too optimistic.

Their principal mark (Intellivision Amico) which you can see shown in various places, is allowed 1 additional extension by uspto (soonish), prior to supplying a statement of use to uspto. This step is necessary to achieve the holy registered status. I would think they will do everything in their power to not risk the obvious here. Logically they need to push this through sooner than 2023.........imo.

 

#6

[MrBeefy]

47 minutes ago, Cebus Capucinis said:

Not to derail this too much, but wasn't F Zero really bad about rubberbanding? I recall being really frustrated with ships magically being able to go 3x their top speed for no good reason.

 

Either way, other than cheezy power up spamming and rubberbanding I can't really see any other way for this Karma thingie (whether it exists or not!) to be anything but disdained. Unless you're playing with kids, I guess, (in before the "well of course, that's the primary market" reply).

I haven't hardly played FZero to know. I'm alright with the concept if done right.

4 minutes ago, number6 said:

I would think they will do everything in their power to not risk the obvious here. Logically they need to push this through sooner than 2023.........imo.

What was said earlier? A year lead time on parts? If they don't have them currently 2023 is a best case scenario. And it would take what 3 months to manufacture and ship?

 

They better have the money now and have the parts ordered. 

[number6]

12 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

I haven't hardly played FZero to know. I'm alright with the concept if done right.

What was said earlier? A year lead time on parts? If they don't have them currently 2023 is a best case scenario. And it would take what 3 months to manufacture and ship?

 

They better have the money now and have the parts ordered. 

Before you enter panic mode (heh), I'll add that trademark law can be extremely complicated. Forgive the examples, but they are fairly well known names around here:

 

If you read my links about these steps when the forum was visible, you will recall that the owner of the Amiga mark submitted a statement of use, uspto granted/registered the Amiga trademark and issued certificate and renewal dates, etc. Reality? They can not use it.

Ditto for THEA500 (mini). There exists a registered trademark for:

THEAMIGAMINI

Again, that company can not use their tm either.

Then you have Commodore. uspto rules they lose a trademark due to failure to show use (remember the "use it or lose it" bit applicable to the U.S.).

Commodore responds "uhh...they kept us from using it by keeping us in court so the time to show use should really begin when our hands are not being tied" (my words, obviously not the direct quotes).

Result: uspto...."uhm...yeah. we missed that so the tm is still yours. (basically a repeal)

 

Bottom line: nothing is done until it's done.

 

#6

[Lost Monkey]

4 hours ago, number6 said:

Their principal mark (Intellivision Amico) which you can see shown in various places, is allowed 1 additional extension by uspto (soonish), prior to supplying a statement of use to uspto. This step is necessary to achieve the holy registered status. I would think they will do everything in their power to not risk the obvious here. Logically they need to push this through sooner than 2023.........imo.

 

#6

Would the trinkets in boxes they have been selling on-line be enough to complete their application - even without the finished console?

[roots.genoa]

The problem with the Karma Engine is it was supposed to be a global balancing system able to balance the difficulty of every Amico game. But they soon realized it was actually impossible to achieve, so games are balanced on an individual basis, which is just traditional game design and there is no "engine", then.

[MrBeefy]

1 hour ago, Lost Monkey said:

Would the trinkets in boxes they have been selling on-line be enough to complete their application - even without the finished console?

They aren't the Amico though. They are trinkets from Intellivision. Not sure how much that matters. If those worked I'd think they'd have it nailed down now. But I would have thought that of their FCC certs too.