DracIsBack Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 I spent most of yesterday addicted to 7800 KLAX. This cart is finnicky in my 7800 -- sometimes it works, sometimes I just get a blank screen. Anyway, not wanting to fiddle with it, I left my 7800 on most of the afternoon and just immersed myself in the game. I made it to level 20 or 21 (the level that has the store parking lot as the backdrop). For you Klaxers, how high does this version go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 I spent most of yesterday addicted to 7800 KLAX. This cart is finnicky in my 7800 -- sometimes it works, sometimes I just get a blank screen. Anyway, not wanting to fiddle with it, I left my 7800 on most of the afternoon and just immersed myself in the game. I made it to level 20 or 21 (the level that has the store parking lot as the backdrop). For you Klaxers, how high does this version go? The startup bug is rather annoying. Though, I think it proves that the Klax version that we have available is just a late proto and not the final rev. (No music either) I think there are 99 levels in all, maybe someone else can verify this. I've only made it into the teens. Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted September 6, 2003 Author Share Posted September 6, 2003 Hi Mitch, Is there a sure-fire way around that "startup" bug? Nothing ever seems to get KLAX started the same way twice. <sigh> Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 I just power it off and back on again. It usually works after one or two power cycles. Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzLee Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 Ok gang, I have been asked a few of questions about this. I cannot explain why Klax does this. When we made the 1st batch, we tested exclusively on my 7800, which work every time with every cart we have ever made. We noticed on the 2nd run, that some seemed a little finicky on my partners 7800, but still work fine on 4 of my 5 7800s. The 5th one exhibited some finicky behavior. Strange for sure. I had one customer, who couldn't get Klax to work at all, but used another 7800 and found that it works flawlessly on another. Baffled by this, we thought that is may have to do with the speed of the chips and various revisions of 7800s, but a few tests with various chips seem to indicate that is is not the case. Also, Sentinel seems to work perfectly with the same chips, same boards, etc.. on all 7800s. I have no explaination as to why we see this strange phenomenom. Perhaps, something to do with the startup vectors for the banking not being initalized properly (randomly or a timing issue). I have no idea, perhaps Eckhard, Chad et. al. can explain further. BTW: One guy in Europe claims that his copy works on his PAL 7800. Maybe Mitch, can verify this. I find it hard to believe, but who knows. As far as the number of levels, hmmm.. David Dentt stated that he was given the data tables from the 2600 version and began from there. He added and extra set of levels that he thought were impossible. He believes he had 3 impossible levels where one required simultaneous Klaxs to complete the level, while another required a certain score to complete and the 3rd one ..... he can't remember. I know this doesn't help matters much, however, I do relealize there is a problem. Usually, it seems that folks can work around it by cycling the 7800 on/off once or twice. Take care, -Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eckhard Stolberg Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 BTW: One guy in Europe claims that his copy works on his PAL 7800. Maybe Mitch, can verify this. I find it hard to believe, but who knows. The game doesn't crash right away on a PAL 7800. But IIRC the timing is completely messed up, and some of the colours look too similar on PAL to really be able to play the game. Since you say that there are some 7800s where KLAX works every time and some where it fails sometimes, do you know what's different between the consoles? Is it the same compatibility issue as with 2600 Decathlon? And wasn't there a problem with KLAX sometimes hanging after the key validation in the MESS emulator as well? Or did that only affect older version of MESS? Ciao, Eckhard Stolberg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayhem Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 Klax worked pretty much okay on my PAL 7800, but yes there are some timing issues and colour screwups of course... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzLee Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 Since you say that there are some 7800s where KLAX works every time and some where it fails sometimes, do you know what's different between the consoles? Is it the same compatibility issue as with 2600 Decathlon? And wasn't there a problem with KLAX sometimes hanging after the key validation in the MESS emulator as well? Or did that only affect older version of MESS? The console problem is not related to the Activision bankswitch problem. Of the ones that play Klax everytime, some play Decathalon while some don't. So I don't believe that is the problem. I have heard rumours that the problem is similar on MESS, but have never tried MESS myself. -Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 I still think it's just a proto bug in the game. The problem in MESS is identical to the one on the real thing except it happens every time in MESS, though you can kick it past the problem by hitting reset. Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 As far as the number of levels, hmmm.. David Dentt stated that he was given the data tables from the 2600 version and began from there If that's true then there are 102. I believe the 2600 version says something like "Winner 100" when you reach the 100th level. I've never done this, but I did see the message hidden in the game code. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shannon Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 doesn't mess have a built in debugger? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+davidcalgary29 Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 I've never encountered the "startup" bug with my version of "Klax", and I've played it continuously for a week now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angusjake Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 No bug in mine - its a great game and its challenging enough that I'll never get too far in the levels... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Apologies for the thread necromancy, but I spent some time looking at the Klax bug in the MESS debugger. There's a race condition between Non Maskable Interrupts and some of the startup code. Delaying DMA (and thus NMIs) until after the crash point fixed the issue in MESS. Hopefully this version works better burned to a cart. Klax (19xx)(Atari)(NTSC)(proto) - fixed.bin Klax (19xx)(Atari)(NTSC)(proto) - fixed.a78 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Not sure which version you are referring to in your post. There is a fixed version from Eckhard out there that seems to fix the bug though. Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Ah, wasn't aware I had been beaten to the punch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Any idea where one can get Eckhard's version? Google isn't showing the way, and the one in the AA database has the bug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Ditto that request. Carts are still being made with the faulty dump - I have a copy that was made a couple of years ago that doesn't play nice on one of my A1 serials with Expansion port - plays fine on several other consoles - the "good"/"fixed" dump has definitely not been widely known or utilized by all. FYI, the work around I found is to hold down one of the P1 joystick buttons during the BIOS load/check screen. It starts up fine every time. The reverse is true for NTSC consoles where Klax plays fine. Hold down a button on the P1 joystick and Klax will "blank screen" after the BIOS load/check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eckhard Stolberg Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Any idea where one can get Eckhard's version? Google isn't showing the way, and the one in the AA database has the bug. Here is the fixed binary I did in 2003. IIRC, I removed several unnecessary writes to INPTCTRL in the startup code. That seems to have fixed the issue on real consoles. I think if you access INPTCTRL too soon after you locked the console mode, it might lock up the 7800. KLAXfix2.bin BTW, it seems that you forgot to update the signature key in your binaries. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Fixed. Thanks for that, and the binary! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynxpro Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 It's too bad they didn't put more work into this port so that it would match the graphics of Tengen's NES and Sega Master System versions. Of course, that would've meant more memory in the carts and a POKEY for the audio. Some of the audio fx sounds as if they were taken from Tower Toppler. If Tengen's SMS version uses the FM chip used in the Japanese SMS, an enterprising coder could borrow it and adapt it for use with the XM's YM2151. Either way, is anyone going to do a cartridge run of this fixed version? Any chance of throwing in HSC support in the code too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godzillajoe Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Why would you put "impossible" levels in a game. Seems like a dickish move. The two things I HATE about games are ones that become "impossible" due to difficulty ramp up or stuff like this and "unlocking" things. If I buy a game, give me the ^%$#@! game. You don't buy a car where the air conditioner doesn't work until you "achieve" 3 oil changes or hit 60,000 miles. KLAX WAVE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinMos3 Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 (edited) If Tengen's SMS version uses the FM chip used in the Japanese SMS, an enterprising coder could borrow it and adapt it for use with the XM's YM2151. Unfortunately, it doesn't. I own the SMS game and an FM enabled SMS. No Tengen releases had FM sound, but all of the Activision releases did. Sure would be nice if Klax did have FM sound though... those games sound awesome. Speaking of which, did you see that Sonic for the SMS has recently gotten an FM sound upgrade? It sounds absolutely amazing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WRwpcV9_30 Edited September 10, 2014 by KevinMos3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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