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Schmutzpuppe

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The ATARI800 is graphical the better emu. But the sound is absolutely unlistenable.....

Will there be once in time a proper emulation.... :roll:

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We all knew the atari 8bit was better than the C64 from the start :D

 

Oh lets so not go there... =-)

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The ATARI800 is graphical the better emu. But the sound is absolutely unlistenable.....

Will there be once in time a proper emulation.... :roll:

 

There are very bad glitches with the sound on Atari800 on Win32 at the moment. It used to be better' date=' but they've done a new pokey emulator, and everthing plays an octave too high - also volume only doesn't work anymore. There is a new version of Atari800 on the way though - don't know whether these things will be fixed though - they don't seem to look at the bug reports in the CVS repository too often!

 

Atari++ does the mid-line changes and the sound is a bit better. Still early days though for other compatibility though.

 

Yes, the demo looks much nicer with the proper mid-line changes :D

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We all knew the atari 8bit was better than the C64 from the start :D

 

-----

mux

 

Well.... the ATARIs are still having more colors, more soundchannels, more cpu-speed.... and it is driving in circles around the specs of the c64.

The result on the XL would only be better, if those "endless" colors are usable for a detailed resolution that is showing colorfull pictures AND doing those effects. Impossible? I think not. Because the count of bytes and CPU cycles is the same....

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We all knew the atari 8bit was better than the C64 from the start :D

 

Oh lets so not go there... =-)

 

:D Just kidding !!!

 

Off course the two systems have their own quality.

 

I've had that C64 envy for years, but it's gone now.

 

The systems should be regarded as being equivalent.

 

-----

mux

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The systems should be regarded as being equivalent.

 

Nah, they both have strengths and weaknesses and, personally, that's why i like working with both machines; there is a fair bit of common ground there but getting something interesting out of either machine takes a different mindset for each job.

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The systems should be regarded as being equivalent.

 

Nah' date=' they both have strengths and weaknesses and, personally, that's why i like working with both machines; there is a fair bit of common ground there but getting something interesting out of either machine takes a different mindset for each job.[/quote']

 

Even though I'm an A8 fan, I admit there's a whole class of games that the A8 doesn't handle well, mainly because of the sprite limitations. There are a lot of cool things things only the A8 can do, but the 64 was tuned for the direction gaming was going.

 

I do believe that there's probably more potential left in the A8, because the 64's hardware has been exploited to a much larger degree.

 

 

-Bry

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I do believe that there's probably more potential left in the A8' date='....

 

-Bry[/quote']

 

Ofcourse it is....

 

Pictures like the following in the ZIP would be possible with the "right" tools for the 8-bits were made once...

Those are not over the top...It is possible to reach the colors and the resolution is similar to gr. 7 (!!!)

 

Look at them and think about it 8)

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Er -- well what the heck emkay won't talk to me anyway -- but dude -- you're smokin' crack!

 

Those images are simply not possible on the A8 -- much as I like to imagine world where the Atari 800 was omnipitent, well, its not. And even though at 32 colors those images still look good -- there are ALWAYS more than 9 colors per scanline, and the A8 palette just does not even have the width to display the each tonal range-- remember the A8 can only display 8 shades of each color it has (unless in GTIA modes) -- these images are not gonna look anything like that on the Atari...

 

Even if you lay the whole PRIOR glitch on these, its just not going to look like those images...

 

I've not even managed to get this image on the looking as good as the C64 version yet:

 

sTeVE

post-579-1063218883_thumb.jpg

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There are more colors at the screen than we would need for my "fake" pics. The pics above were made by simple GTIA mode interlace... The "kernal" pictures in higher resolution would not flicker...

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What's really needed is an interactive PC tool that will allow you to place players, DLI's, and cycle exact changes. Then it can dump out executable kernel code.

 

-Bry

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What's really needed is an interactive PC tool that will allow you to place players' date=' DLI's, and cycle exact changes. Then it can dump out executable kernel code.[/quote']

 

A standard would be nice to start off with, s'a bit difficult to write an editor without having a display routine that defines how the data is laid out. Actually, an image converter rather than an editor would be a quicker and probably easier first step (and no, i'm not modding ImageWire for MCS okay?! =-)

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But those pics u show there are standard Technicolor Dream or HIP style -- GTIA resolution images -- either stable 80X96 or more flickery HIP images. If you want those style images there are editors out there already...

 

The pictures you included in that ZIP were 160X171 and 160X120 resolution in 256 colors which mape out about 40 to 80 unique colors/shades each...

 

I still don't see how 9 colors per scaline would achieve those images.

 

sTeVE

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But those pics u show there are standard Technicolor Dream or HIP style -- GTIA resolution images -- either stable 80X96 or more flickery HIP images. If you want those style images there are editors out there already...

 

The pictures you included in that ZIP were 160X171 and 160X120 resolution in 256 colors which mape out about 40 to 80 unique colors/shades each...

 

I still don't see how 9 colors per scaline would achieve those images.

 

sTeVE

 

How is it possible to argue with people who don't know nothing and allways denieing the possible in a negative way?

 

The Images are using a max of 48 colors on the whole screen. Ofcourse it is not possible to set every pixel exactly like on those "fakes" but if you will take a look, when they are exisiting (also the expected tools) , you will see those images on the screen as they are in the fake-images.

 

The biggest problem on creating programs and tools for the XL is, coders are seeing - by doing their stuff- pictures like "Koronis Rift" or "Alternate Reality" but not beyond them.

Looking at the customized MCS-DRUID from Schmutzpuppe, this Image is more colorfull than every other gametitle I've seen on the A8.But: Near the full color-resolution of it you can use in ONE scanline and repeat and update it on every other scanline exept line 0 of a charmode-line.

In addition, I used a "less" resolution for the fakes, so you can dither colors too, to gain more authentic colors (because of the 8 brightness steps).

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Note: this doesn't work on emulators' date=' because this type of graphics makes use of GTIAs line interlace, which mixes colors in consecutive rasterlines.[/quote']

 

*sigh* well again as i mentioned that in another thread already: that color mixing is not a feature of the GTIA. it happens when the pal decoder in the monitor/tv decodes the pal color carrier, so it happens on every pal machine (800xl, c64 etc etc).

 

and: it works on emulators... perhaps not the 800xl emus, but vice (c64, vic20, plus4 etc etc) is able to emulate that.

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...it happens on every pal machine (800xl' date=' c64 etc etc)..[/quote']

 

So, you mean it won't work on NTSC machines:

 

F.e. TIP-pictures are not possible on NTSC 8bits???

 

-----

mux

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...it happens on every pal machine (800xl' date=' c64 etc etc)..[/quote']

 

So' date=' you mean it won't work on NTSC machines:

 

F.e. TIP-pictures are not possible on NTSC 8bits???

 

-----

mux[/quote']

 

I have no idea why this effect would look better on PAL machines. Each line is displayed separately in time, with no regard for the previous line, isn't it? I know SECAM TV's mix lines together (because in SECAM, the vertical color resolution is cut in half and distributed over 2 lines) but I wonder why this effect works on PAL.

 

What's a good example of a TIP picture? I'll photograph my NTSC monitor and post it.

 

Here's how te.mod looks: The lines really don't appear to mix on NTSC (actually, they look more mixed in this picture than they do on the screen. On my monitor the gray lines are clearly visible).

 

-Bry

post-3606-1063289431_thumb.jpg

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How is it possible to argue with people who don't know nothing and allways denieing the possible in a negative way?

You would probably get along great with this guy.

 

Haha.. that guy needs to strap a bomb to himself and show'em all!!!

 

-Bry

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How is it possible to argue with people who don't know nothing and allways denieing the possible in a negative way?

You would probably get along great with this guy.

 

Maybe this guy really did to much work on computers or look TV... The whole world seems to be a cube for him ;)

 

Your comparing between "him" and me is very interesting. It's like to say inside is outside ;)

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What's really needed is an interactive PC tool that will allow you to place players' date=' DLI's' date=' and cycle exact changes. Then it can dump out executable kernel code.[/quote'']

 

A standard would be nice to start off with, s'a bit difficult to write an editor without having a display routine that defines how the data is laid out. Actually, an image converter rather than an editor would be a quicker and probably easier first step (and no, i'm not modding ImageWire for MCS okay?! =-)

 

Right, a standart would be nice but i don't think that this is the way it would work.

The editor has to adapt the code for each scanline.

It's not usefull to have a generall routine that write the values to each register in each scanline.

The job isn't that easy... :(

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Emaky -- How is it possible to argue with people who don't know nothing and allways denieing the possible in a negative way

 

Yeah you're right the last 24 years of Atari ownership and work on this platform have taught me nothing - yeah that's right I admit to knowing nothing, and you know everything, well I have nothing constructive to say to that :roll:

 

So long, and thanks for all the fish...

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