Why atari sold the atari xe as a hybrid system?

[johannesmutlu]

 While it is true that the atari 7800 did sell well as atari hoped,but why did they come up sooo fast with their atari xe As a hybrid pc & game console?

because eventrough they released 2 sets of their atari xe (1 with a keyboard and controller and 1 with a lightgun and controller),but what they should,ve was never gave up on their atari 7800 supersystem because they had to realize that games such as mariobros,donkeykong & dk jr,ms pac man Among their library of atari 2600 games could,ve still cause the system to selling well,

their was no need for a atari xe since they had already the more advanced 16bit atari st and those atari 400 & 800 systems from the early 80’s,so why also bringing up just another 8bit system the atari xe? Did it not became obsolete by that point,am mean even gold classics like donkeykong,mariobros and pac man etc,,, couldn’t save the system,

and if atari really wanted to release their atari xe ,then they should,ve bundle 1 set with both a keyboard and (thirthparty) diskdrive along with os software for it and sell it as a hybrid pc while in the other set they should and did had still put in a controller and light gun with it but they also should,ve include in 1 game and sell it as a hybrid game console,then they should,ve mention on the back in smaall letters in a corner on both sets that it functions as both a game console and pc to reduce confusion while still convincing people to buy one, and off course both should,ve been sold with the same price, to futher reduce confusion, the bundled pc swt should,ve only be sold in pc stores while the game console set should,ve been only sold in toy stores,i bet that would,ve worked better,alltrough i do like how atari did put stickers on existing atari family computer games stating that it also works on their atari xe,that’s a pretty smart way to increase that library of existing games  to get ridd off it and to futher courage people for buying the atari xe,

that’s like putting stickers on old master system games stating that it is also compatible with the sega genesis trough an master convertor adaptor,briliant?

[gilsaluki]

If you are referring to the last 8-bit released (at least in the USA) the XE Game System, that story is well documented.  It was simply a why for the always cash-strapped Tramiel Atari Corp. to squeeze every oz. of revenue out to the 8-bit line.  I never bought the bull that it would 'help' all 8-bitters by introducing more folks to the possibilities of computing.  As you have well stated, more capable computers were readily available by that time.  No, it was just to generate more  money for the company.  The real short-sightedness came when the Tramiels took over Atari.  They should have green-lighted the 7800 three years prior.  Who knows if it would have been able to compete with Nintendo.  Somehow, I still don't think it would, due to Atari's  problem with software authors, due credit to them, and reluctance to be totally transparent to developers and retailers.  The Tramiels did keep Atari alive with these stunts, but in the end (as the the famous Forbes Magazine article aptly pointed out), Cheap Did Not Sell.  And Atari Corp. always operated on the cheap.  All is well documented.  

[youxia]

1 hour ago, johannesmutlu said:

 While it is true that the atari 7800 did sell well as atari hoped,but why did they come up sooo fast with their atari xe As a hybrid pc & game console?

because eventrough they released 2 sets of their atari xe (1 with a keyboard and controller and 1 with a lightgun and controller),but what they should,ve was never gave up on their atari 7800 supersystem because they had to realize that games such as mariobros,donkeykong & dk jr,ms pac man Among their library of atari 2600 games could,ve still cause the system to selling well,

their was no need for a atari xe since they had already the more advanced 16bit atari st and those atari 400 & 800 systems from the early 80’s,so why also bringing up just another 8bit system the atari xe? Did it not became obsolete by that point,am mean even gold classics like donkeykong,mariobros and pac man etc,,, couldn’t save the system,

and if atari really wanted to release their atari xe ,then they should,ve bundle 1 set with both a keyboard and (thirthparty) diskdrive along with os software for it and sell it as a hybrid pc while in the other set they should and did had still put in a controller and light gun with it but they also should,ve include in 1 game and sell it as a hybrid game console,then they should,ve mention on the back in smaall letters in a corner on both sets that it functions as both a game console and pc to reduce confusion while still convincing people to buy one, and off course both should,ve been sold with the same price, to futher reduce confusion, the bundled pc swt should,ve only be sold in pc stores while the game console set should,ve been only sold in toy stores,i bet that would,ve worked better,alltrough i do like how atari did put stickers on existing atari family computer games stating that it also works on their atari xe,that’s a pretty smart way to increase that library of existing games  to get ridd off it and to futher courage people for buying the atari xe,

that’s like putting stickers on old master system games stating that it is also compatible with the sega genesis trough an master convertor adaptor,briliant?

  

yes Ialso thun'k basic text formatting is vastly overrated let us all,speak in one sestence f punctuation streams of consciousnessand be frrree forever so brilliant??

[oracle_jedi]

1 hour ago, johannesmutlu said:

if atari really wanted to release their atari xe ,then they should,ve bundle 1 set with both a keyboard and (thirthparty) diskdrive along with os software for it and sell it as a hybrid pc while in the other set they should and did had still put in a controller and light gun with it but they also should

 

In Europe Atari continued to offer the 130XE/800XE right through until mid 1992, so they did position it as a cheap entry level computer/games system.  It was sold along side the XEGS.  I think there was also a package with the XEGS, keyboard and Flight Sim II.  Various packages aimed at different price points and potential buyers.  I don't know what approach Atari was using Stateside, but I would imagine by 1991/92 the market was mostly consoles for games and 16-bit - and probably increasingly PC cloned - for computing.

 

We've had numerous discussions on the merits of Atari selling 3 different 8-bit systems all at the same time (2600, 7800, XEGS) and people have raised many good points.   My opinion remains that it was simply a way for Tramiel to squeeze a last bit of revenue from the 8-bit line, and to monetize the portfolio of licensed IP that was the 8-bit game library with minimal capital investment.  

[zzip]

I think it was designed for the UK market and maybe other parts of Europe were gaming was done on computers at the time and NES never really took off.   

 

So something like XEGS makes a lot of sense and I believe it sold well in those markets.

 

But it didn't make sense to me to sell it in the US along side the 7800.   In fact I can remember Atari was having a computer faire in my town around the time they  announced it,   and many of the 8-bit owners at the show were quite upset at the announcement and so some of the speakers had to address it.  The 8-bit owners wanted their computers to be accepted as serious machines and Atari rereleasing it as a game system didn't help with that image.   I think in the end though, it helped extend the life of the 8-bit line.

 

and yes, it was standard operating procedure for the Tramiels to squeeze every sale out of the 8-bit inventory, so no doubt that heavily influenced the product.

[stepho]

Don't forget that other companies also continued selling old lines next to the new lines.
Eg, Apple updated the Apple II line and sold it alongside the Lisa and Mac.
Commodore continued selling the Pet and VIC-20 when the C64 was released

.

Updating an old line is cheap and uses simpler parts, so the price can be cheap.
And there is already plenty of software.

 

The new line has to recoup a lot of development cost and uses more complicated parts, so must be expensive.
And there is little software for it at first.

 

So companies sell the old lines to bring in money until the new line is established.

[ugliestgolf]

not sure who was first but in was very much in vogue, to eek life out of your 8 bit platform by inttroducing a consolised version... for about a week till everyone noticed noone bought them.... ie. Amstrad, Commodore, Atari

[ugliestgolf]

research tells me atari was first ....commodore and amstrad didnt do it till 1990...

[Fred_M]

I think the timeline of Atari 8-bit computers and their success in various countries play a big part in this situation.

 

The XE Game System was released in 1987. At that time the Atari 8-bit series were relatively successful in the UK and Germany. Many UK software companies supported the A8 computers with a lot of games. In Germany the A8 computers were also relatively succesful as a serious computer. Funny enough, the ST computers had a similar position. In the UK as a games machine and in Germany as a serious machine. This "discussion" between Atari UK and Germany lasted until the introduction of the Falcon. The XEGS was created for the already "succesful" markets.

 

The 7800 was never successful in Europe, the A8 series was way more popular than the 7800. So that could explain why Atari tried to sqeeze everything out of the A8 series to make a profit in Europe.

 

The 800XE was introduced in 1987/1988 too. This model was intended to be sold in Eastern Europe (a.o. Poland, Czech Republic) and Germany (succesful A8 market) only. Atari made those machines from everything they still had left. That is why the 800XE uses the mainboard of the 130XE with just 64k. The name was chosen because the name 800XL was much more known than the 65XE or 130XE in Europe. Those 800XE computers were intended to be as cheap as possible, because the Eastern European countries were still under the influence of the Soviet Union. So these people did not have much money to spend. After the fall of the iron curtain (1989) the A8 was very succesful in Poland (which was still a poor country at that time). It was probably one of the most popular home computers in Poland between 1989 and 1992. The XEGS was not popualr in Poland: it was too expensive.

 

So Atari (Jack Tramiel) researched in which countries he could make the biggest profits and with which model. I think that is not really strange for a commercial company. Just do a google search for the Aldi C64  

 

@johannesmutlu By the way, the "old" games with a sticker are actually new releases of those games. To cut the costs of designing new packaging and new games, Atari decided to rerelease some of their old games and did not want to invest in new packaging. So they used the designs of the old packaging, removed the mention of 400/800 computers, removed the Warner Communications statement and put on a sticker that those games could be played with the XL, XE computers/systems as well. Just take a closer look at those boxes, you will see that they are different to the original boxes.

 

The name XE Game System was also used in Brazil, but there it was a 65XE with a XC12 datarecorder (probably also specifically made for Brazil). There are more XEGS packages than you mention. For example the keyboard was also sold separately, the lightgun with Bug Hunt was sold separately and there was a big box too with "everything" (console, keyboard, lightgun, controller, games). The XC11 and XC12 data recorders, the XF551 disk-drive, the XM301 modem and other peripherals were sold separately for the XE series.

 

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Fred_M

[johannesmutlu]

Well that explaines alooot.

[suspicious_milk]

Time Warner had (over) produced so much Atari product, one can still purchase NOS in 2022.  In 2022 there still exists warehouses of 80s Atari inventory.

 

Tramiel now owned all this product.  Games and periphery sell 200 times better for a system that is seen as current, supported, and new.  Selling the 2600, 7800, XE(gs) was NOT a mistake.  It was NOT Tramiel being some kind of penny pincher (what dumb ass critisism of the Tramiels thrown about, "just after money", like EVERY business) ?.

 

Jack Tramiel was the best thing for Atari at that time.  Atari was damaged goods between a rock and a hardplace when he got it.  He did an Amazing Job all things considered.

[+Stephen]

1 hour ago, suspicious_milk said:

It was NOT Tramiel being some kind of penny pincher

Tramiel was such a penny pincher, it's been said that it was he who invented copper wire.

[_The Doctor__]

well he could have actually released a final 8 bit using all the parts that were in the warehouses to put out the 8 bit Atari's people wanted and he knew they wanted, you know the ones, already designed and ready to go... stereo (dual pokey, aka gumby to the masses) and so on. It was and always will be doing it on the cheap and not doing anything to jeopardize Jackintosh ST's... Had he blew the 8 bit line out with fireworks showing all it could be, many people would have been more confident in buying his later offerings. People wanted to know there would be support for the new machines and looked to what they did with the old machines as well as treatment of the old user-base as clue to what would be expected with the new line. Taking a big dump on the dealer network and cutting everyone out didn't help, especially with the Federated fiasco.... who needs anybody else if you can save a dime... oh wait, oops, they wouldn't be able to handle the entire 50 states and er um, but it was going to be super duper cheap... except well Federated Trammied the Tramiels like they had done to so many others. So with the user base feeling abandoned and no real dealer network left... let's make a cheap K B toy store model and unload some some crap since we won't have anywhere else to go with it.

To state anyone or any business needs to make money is just common sense, not realizing you will lose future sales by being cheap and short sighted is not a good move for anyone. Screwing people over as you get there left them with few friends and that is documented history. That is why they took the money by reverse merger and ran away with tons of bank leaving the shareholders bereft.

Edited April 8, 2022 by _The Doctor__

[gilsaluki]

13 hours ago, suspicious_milk said:

Time Warner had (over) produced so much Atari product, one can still purchase NOS in 2022.  In 2022 there still exists warehouses of 80s Atari inventory.

 

Tramiel now owned all this product.  Games and periphery sell 200 times better for a system that is seen as current, supported, and new.  Selling the 2600, 7800, XE(gs) was NOT a mistake.  It was NOT Tramiel being some kind of penny pincher (what dumb ass critisism of the Tramiels thrown about, "just after money", like EVERY business) ?.

 

Jack Tramiel was the best thing for Atari at that time.  Atari was damaged goods between a rock and a hardplace when he got it.  He did an Amazing Job all things considered.

Wow. "Dumb Ass Criticism". Tell us how you really feel.  That's not our opinion only, it was the industries' opinion.  And, I might add Leonard Tramiel stated himself that the XEGS was their last effort to inexpensively extend the line.  I guess he too is a Dumb Ass.  DBM.

[zzip]

14 hours ago, suspicious_milk said:

Tramiel now owned all this product.  Games and periphery sell 200 times better for a system that is seen as current, supported, and new.  Selling the 2600, 7800, XE(gs) was NOT a mistake.  It was NOT Tramiel being some kind of penny pincher (what dumb ass critisism of the Tramiels thrown about, "just after money", like EVERY business)

If his goal was to keep the company afloat for a few more years by selling dated product, then yeah he was successful.

 

If his goal was to keep Atari the brand leader in the videogame market, then this is not the way to do it and he failed miserably.

[gilsaluki]

Atari = Great innovative products.  Atari (pre-Tramiel, Tramiel Era) was always terrible at the business side, marketing was never good.  Tramiel DOES deserve criticism (and praise for prolonging the brand) for cheaping out.  Just follow the lack of promotion for the ST, TT, Falcon, Lynx, Portfolio,Jag.  In the end, the company was so broke it was swallowed up by JTS Tandon for practically nothing. By then everyone one was tired of the failed promises (retailers not did trust them, magazines closed up shop, suppliers didn't trust them, the industry by and large just ignored them).   The brand name is all that is left.  And, with the now obvious low energy launch of (what can be disputed as unnecessary) the New VCS, history is repeating itself.  I am a long time supporter of all things Atari.  I just live in REAL-VILLE.  DBM. 

Edited April 8, 2022 by gilsaluki
skoe

[Hwlngmad]

Per Michael Katz who worked for Atari at the time, "XE Game System was a combination of game player and entry computer, but it never caught on".

[Lostdragon]

On 4/6/2022 at 7:57 PM, zzip said:

I think it was designed for the UK market and maybe other parts of Europe were gaming was done on computers at the time and NES never really took off.   

 

So something like XEGS makes a lot of sense and I believe it sold well in those markets.

 

But it didn't make sense to me to sell it in the US along side the 7800.   In fact I can remember Atari was having a computer faire in my town around the time they  announced it,   and many of the 8-bit owners at the show were quite upset at the announcement and so some of the speakers had to address it.  The 8-bit owners wanted their computers to be accepted as serious machines and Atari rereleasing it as a game system didn't help with that image.   I think in the end though, it helped extend the life of the 8-bit line.

 

and yes, it was standard operating procedure for the Tramiels to squeeze every sale out of the 8-bit inventory, so no doubt that heavily influenced the product.

The aspect of Atari UK MD Bob Gleadow apparently convincing Atari in the USA, the XEGS was  a far more suitable device for our cassette based market over here, has been documented in earlier discussions, so i won't linger on that aspect. 

 

It was just unfortunate that it was another WTF is Atari doing? type move at the time, when it came to announcing what we were to get, to replace the aging 2600.

 

 

The 5200 had been annouced for the UK, then canned after the US Crash. 

 

 

Atari then unveil the 7800 at a London show, hardware, games, pricing... 

 

 

Then it's postponed, instead we are getting the XEGS, at a time classified ads were groaning under weight of people selling off their old 800XL 's etc as there was so little software support for them from UK Games publishers. 

 

Jack having  offloaded the last lot of unsold 800 XL' s to UK Electrical chains some time before, in order to offload unsold inventory and whilst it boosted the user base, software support was still token at best. 

 

The market was C64-ZX Spectrum-Amstrad CPC. 

 

 

 

 

The 7800 finally limps out and Atari is pitching 3 8-bit cartridge based consoles to a limited UK market, without the essential software support of publishers like Ocean, US Gold etc and very little internal  software of worth compared to what Sega and Nintendo were offering. 

 

Atari UK talked of encouraging software houses to convert ST titles to the likes of the 7800 and XEGS, in order to boost games support. 

 

 

But both systems failed to make any real impact in the UK, even compared to the NES. 

Edited April 8, 2022 by Lostdragon

[+slx]

I can't remember ever seeing an XEGS in a store in Austria. I don't even recall 130XEs/65XEs but that is probably because I was more interested in STs by then. 

 

For the Tramiels all this probably made sense as they could work every bit of the market. From a users' point of view some kind of evolutionary development in excess of RAM banking would have been nice. In all fairness they reported some development (AMY?) which just didn't pan out.

[www.atarimania.com]

58 minutes ago, slx said:

I can't remember ever seeing an XEGS in a store in Austria. I don't even recall 130XEs/65XEs but that is probably because I was more interested in STs by then. 

 

Speaking of Austria, do you have any issues of XEST by any chance? It would be great to have this magazine archived.

[+CharlieChaplin]

2 hours ago, www.atarimania.com said:

 

Speaking of Austria, do you have any issues of XEST by any chance? It would be great to have this magazine archived.

 

We are off topic:

 

I have a few issues of XE/ST magazine. My list says:

1986 issues: 3, 4, 5, 7, 8;

1987 issues: 9, 20;

None of them are scanned yet.

 

Same for Data Welt, which was more into C64 and later ST/Amiga and then PC. But several C64 listings of Data Welt were taken from their Data Becker books and some of these books were also available for the A8. My list says:

1984 issues: 4;

1985 issues: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5;

1986 issues: 4, 9, 10,11;

 

P.M. Computerheft: all issues complete in two blue P.M. binders

(But I think I have a CD of the scans somewhere ?!? Have to take a look...)

 

Let me know if you are (or someone else is) interested in scanning them. My deal: If I get a free copy of the scans, you can have these magazines for free. Besides, I have donated most of my A8 magazines to the Abbuc scan project and this resulted in more than 80GB of magazine scans (let me know if you want a copy on a 128GB USB thumb stick). Some months ago I did send a USB stick to Allan, who will upload most of these scans to archive.org (and he already uploaded dozens, ermm, hundreds of scans there).

 

 

[+CharlieChaplin]

See also here: https://www.atarimagazines.com/v7n4/firstlook.html

 

quote: "Atari executives asked the heads of several major toy store chains which product they'd rather sell – the powerful 65XE home computer for about $80, or a fancy new game system for about $150. The answer was, "You can keep the computer, give us that game machine!"  This "game machine" is what we now know as the Atari XEGS, the XL-compatible Extended memory Game System. It's simply an enhanced 65XE in a game machine package. It's also a brilliant idea. The XEGS has been selling out almost as fast as toy stores can get them in."

 

And here:

 

[jefffulton]

They used A LOT of stock parts and sold about 100K units at X-mas 1987 or 88 in just the UK. This gave them some cash and helped to fill the "Atari Game Centers" with budget games released across quite a few labels.  It was just a stop-gap maneuver, but you will find a of of good games released after the XEGS came out. Some by Atari and many by 3rd parties. 
But it WAS just  a way to re-package and sell older software and hardware with a few new products thrown in. 

[+wongojack]

In the end, I wonder if Atari made more money under Tramiel on the 2600/7800/XEGS or the many lawsuits they were pursuing at the time.

 

Either way, the company focus was the ST.  Everything else was just to keep the doors open long enough for the expected success of the Jackintosh - and it almost worked!

[+slx]

On 4/9/2022 at 10:04 PM, www.atarimania.com said:

 

Speaking of Austria, do you have any issues of XEST by any chance? It would be great to have this magazine archived.

I might have a couple. I think I even know where they are ? I wasn‘t aware they were not archived. I bought them because being locally published they were rather cheap but they were no match for Antic regarding content.