froggerchamp Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 Hi everyone! I am attempting to play an Atari 2600 on a modern-day television. Specifically, on the LG - 77" Class CX Series OLED 4K UHD Smart webOS TV. Its specs are a little different than your average digital TV, I believe. At least different enough to not be compatible with the recommendations I see for using an upscaler. Because it's not a 60hz TV; it's 120hz. And apparently that causes...interface problems with upscalers most ppl are using. So that's fun, right? LOL.... There is also some question as to HDMI being used, tho I am not entirely clear on the reasons associated with that. This model encompasses both HDMI 2.0 as well as HDMI 2.1 (thank goodness)....which other LG OLED models do not. Apparently HDMI 2.0 is getting "phased out"....but this model, thankfully, still allows its use! Something else of note....is the "Resolution" with this model. It's listed at 2160p (not 1080p)......is that unusual? I expected it to be 1080p. And since that is double what other models I've seen list, how does that impact use of an upscaler, or even use of an Open Source Scan Converter (OSSC) in this process of getting the Atari 2600 to play (well) on this model of TV? Here are the full specs of the TV in question, the one that will be used to play the Atari 2600 on. From the BestBuy website: ___________________________________ Specifications Key Specs Display Type OLED Resolution 4K (2160p) Screen Size Class 77 inches High Dynamic Range (HDR) Yes High Dynamic Range Format Dolby Vision, HDR 10, Hybrid Log-Gamma (HLG) Refresh Rate 120Hz Specific Manufacturer Technologies HDR Dynamic, Tone Mapping Pro, Advanced Contrast Enhancer, Face Enhancing, Ultra Luminance Pro, Billion Rich Colors, True Color Accuracy Pro Smart Platform webOS Featured Streaming Services Apple TV+, Paramount+, Crackle, Disney+, Fandango, Google Play Movies & TV, Hulu, Netflix, Pandora, Peacock, Prime Video, Redbox, SHOWTIME, SIRIUS, STARZ, Sling TV, Spotify, Twitch, Vudu, YouTube, YouTube TV, iHeartRadio Number of HDMI Inputs (Total) 4 Works With Amazon Alexa, Apple HomeKit, Google Assistant Voice Assistant Built-in Amazon Alexa, Google Assistant General Product Name 77" Class CX Series OLED 4K UHD Smart webOS TV Brand LG Model Number OLED77CXPUA Series CX Series Model Year 2020 Color Silver Color Category Silver Dimensions Product Height With Stand 40.3 inches Product Width 67.8 inches Product Depth With Stand 10.6 inches Product Height Without Stand 39.1 inches Product Depth Without Stand 2.2 inches Product Weight With Stand 79.1 pounds Product Weight Without Stand 58.9 pounds Adjustable Stand Width No Box Dimensions Height 44.5 inches Width 74.6 inches Depth 11.2 inches Display Display Type OLED Resolution 4K (2160p) Screen Size 76.7 inches Screen Size Class 77 inches High Dynamic Range (HDR) Yes High Dynamic Range Format Dolby Vision, HDR 10, Hybrid Log-Gamma (HLG) Picture Quality Enhancement Technology Cinema HDR Curved Screen No Refresh Rate 120Hz Closed Captioning Yes Language(s) Displayed English, French, Spanish 3D Technology No Features Remote Control Type Magic Specific Manufacturer Technologies HDR Dynamic, Tone Mapping Pro, Advanced Contrast Enhancer, Face Enhancing, Ultra Luminance Pro, Billion Rich Colors, True Color Accuracy Pro Smart Capable Yes Smart Platform webOS Featured Streaming Services Apple TV+, Paramount+, Crackle, Disney+, Fandango, Google Play Movies & TV, Hulu, Netflix, Pandora, Peacock, Prime Video, Redbox, SHOWTIME, SIRIUS, STARZ, Sling TV, Spotify, Twitch, Vudu, YouTube, YouTube TV, iHeartRadio Screen Mirroring Yes Screen Mirroring Technology Miracast Indoor Or Outdoor Use Indoor Text-To-Speech Yes Video Description Yes V-Chip No TV Tuner Digital Connectivity Number of HDMI Inputs (Total) 4 Number of HDMI 2.1 Inputs 1 Number of HDMI 2.0 Inputs 3 HDMI Audio Return Channel (ARC) Yes Number Of USB Port(s) (Total) 3 Number of USB 2.0 Ports 3 Ethernet Port(s) Yes RF Antenna Input Yes Bluetooth Enabled Yes Bluetooth Version 5.0 Network Compatibility Built-in Wi-Fi, Ethernet Number of RS-232 Inputs 1 Headphone Jack Yes Number of Digital Optical Audio Outputs 1 Number of Component Video Inputs 0 Number of Composite Video Inputs 1 Number of DVI Inputs 0 Compatibility VESA Wall Mount Standard 400mm x 200mm Works With Amazon Alexa, Apple HomeKit, Google Assistant Voice Assistant Built-in Amazon Alexa, Google Assistant Audio Built-In Speakers Yes Built-in Speaker Type Front firing Surround Sound Supported Dolby Atmos, OLED Surround Speaker Output 40 watts Power ENERGY STAR Certified No EPEAT Qualified No Estimated Annual Operating Cost 38 United States dollars Estimated Annual Electricity Use 313 kilowatt hours Rechargeable Battery (Remote Control) No Number Of Batteries Required (Remote Control) 2 Number of Batteries Included (Remote Control) 2 Included Stand Included Yes Cable(s) Included AC power Warranty Manufacturer's Warranty - Parts 1 Year Manufacturer's Warranty - Labor 1 Year Other UPC 719192637177 ___________________________________ Thoughts on what type of upscaler (if any) or OSSC (if any)......to use to get this done? Really need to play the Atari 2600 on this TV!! Man I hope there is a solution to be found. I'm open to any and all suggestions!!! Please let me know what should be used; the things to get and use, etc....even if they are not OSSC or an upscaler. I just want to know how to play Atari again, on a modern TV; how that gets done though eludes me. Pls forgive the n00bishness. <3 Thanks in advance for any and all help! With appreciation, froggerchamp --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bcombee Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 Unfortunately, this TV doesn't have a NTSC tuner, but it does have a composite video input, so if you do an AV mod on your 2600, you should be able to connect it to that. However, the 2600 composite signal isn't always perfect, so it might not be able to stay synced with it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariSphinx Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 You also could get an old VCR with a NTSC tuner and output from it composite into the TV (tune the VCR to the appropriate channel). Not sure your TV will sync to that but it's easy and cheap (find those old VCR at thrift stores). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
froggerchamp Posted April 9, 2022 Author Share Posted April 9, 2022 2 hours ago, bcombee said: Unfortunately, this TV doesn't have a NTSC tuner, but it does have a composite video input, so if you do an AV mod on your 2600, you should be able to connect it to that. However, the 2600 composite signal isn't always perfect, so it might not be able to stay synced with it. Thanks for the suggestion. I prolly wouldn't be courageous enough to do an AV mod on the 2600......but if I were, where are the directions to do so, a good blog or video you can recommend? Pls keep in mind that I am a n00b at this, still figuring it all out...so the more straightforward/beginner language a source of info has in a blog or manual, the better. Very new to all this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
froggerchamp Posted April 9, 2022 Author Share Posted April 9, 2022 1 hour ago, AtariSphinx said: You also could get an old VCR with a NTSC tuner and output from it composite into the TV (tune the VCR to the appropriate channel). Not sure your TV will sync to that but it's easy and cheap (find those old VCR at thrift stores). I've heard abt doing this; saw a video on YouTube that talked abt it. Unfortunately the method/upscaler recommended was not a fit for this TV, which is how I ended up here. The directions in that video are not a perfect fit. The VCR workaround you refer to is legit tho, I'm sure. Just have to find a way to "output from it composite into the TV" that works. Pls note: the only way I'm aware of doing something like this.....is via upscaler and "F connector adapter"....but even with that method, I am still (still!) nervous abt it working well. The good news: I can find a "VCR with an NTSC tuner" like you mentioned. The not so good news: I do not know exactly what equipment would have to be used to "output from it composite into the TV"....or even what that fully means. Cuz I'm a complete n00b at this. So, please expand on that, and help me understand the specifics involved (what equipment/cables, etc. would be needed to do that). I assume there has to be a box/cable/etc. involved....which would have to be there, before the VCR can be tuned to the right channel. Right? If so, pls let me know what wires or other gadgets would have to be used along with the "VCR with an NTSC"....what cables or converter things in addition to the VCR will be necessary to get that done. Biggest wonder: What I am really wondering abt is if I need an upscaler to do all this. And if I do, where do I find one that works with this particular TV...? All the upscalers I have seen work only with a 60hz TV....this one has 120hz. And....something else I'm wondering: if an OSSC is needed -- at all. Is it? And if so, which OSSC would I need, to work with this particular model of TV? Thanks again for your help, AtariSphinx. Greatly appreciated! --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariSphinx Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, froggerchamp said: What I am really wondering abt is if I need an upscaler to do all this. And if I do, where do I find one that works with this particular TV...? All the upscalers I have seen work only with a 60hz TV....this one has 120hz. And....something else I'm wondering: if an OSSC is needed -- at all. Is it? And if so, which OSSC would I need, to work with this particular model of TV? First make sure not to confuse 120Hz refresh rate (how fast it redraws the screen) vs the 60Hz in the outlet (in the USA). Most flat screen TVs are 120Hz so this is not your issue. The main issue is that your TV does not have an analog TV tuner (NTSC tuner). This is why you either need to get an external tuner (such as VCR) or as suggested by bcombee user modify the Atari to have composite output (the cable with yellow white red 3 outputs). 10 hours ago, froggerchamp said: not know exactly what equipment would have to be used to "output from it composite into the TV"....or even what that fully means. Cuz I'm a complete n00b at this. So, please expand on that, and help me understand the specifics involved (what equipment/cables, etc. would be needed to do that). I assume there has to be a box/cable/etc. involved....which would have to be there, before the VCR can be tuned to the right channel. Right? If so, pls let me know what wires or other gadgets would have to be used along with the "VCR with an NTSC"....what cables or converter things in addition to the VCR will be necessary to get that done. Once you have a VCR, you don't need much other equipment. First connect the Atari to the antenna in coaxial connector in the back of the VCR. You either need one of those switch boxes that used to come with an Atari or even better is the F connector. For the F connector you connect that directly to the cable coming out of the Atari then connect that to the back of the VCR as I described above. Make sure to connect to the in not out coaxial on the back of the VCR. Next connect a standard composite cable (one of those cables that have the yellow, white,red wires ) to the back of the VCR. Connect to the video out as some VCR also have a video in as well). Connect the other end to the back of the TV (your TV has one of those inputs). If your VCR does not have a red connector just don't connect that wire Plug in the VCR. Turn on your TV and change to the composite input on the TV (sometimes called video in the menu). Now turn on the VCR and using the VCR remote switch the channel on the VCR to either channel 2 or 3 (depends on the switch on your atari if it has one or only 3 of it does not). You should see snow on the TV. If you put a cart in Atari and turn it on, you should see the game on the screen. Now how good will it look without an upscaler will be the question. Hope that helps. There are several YouTube videos that go through this as well. Edited April 9, 2022 by AtariSphinx Updated wording 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nathan Strum Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 An old VCR will do, although I'd suggest getting a Sony TU-1041U tuner off eBay (like I mention here) since the components are usually of better quality and it takes up much less space than a VCR. Then plug the 2600's RF into that, then plug the tuner into composite-in + audio on your TV, and let the TV do the scaling. Turn off any aspect ratio stretching (the 2600 was not 16:9), turn off frame interpolation (it can make 2600 graphics look wonky) and put the TV in Game mode for the fastest response time. The picture won't be crisp, but it should work, and it's probably the simplest way to get something working. As I mentioned in that blog article, the better RF cables you use, the cleaner your picture will be. To get a really clean picture, you need to mod your console (or have someone do it for you). S-Video is better than composite, but TVs don't come with S-Video inputs anymore, so you'd need a scaler. Component or RGB can look better than S-Video, but S-Video mods are easier to come by, and S-Video (or more specifically Y/C) is actually how the 2600 natively outputs video anyway. For scaling to HDMI, I've heard the RetroTINK 5X-Pro is a very good scaler, but I've never used one. If you don't care about using actual cartridges (or genuine original hardware), you can get a RetroN 77 and load the latest community build of Stella on it. Support for physical cartridges is minimal, but pretty-much every 2600 game can be loaded onto a microSD card and be played that way in razor-sharp HDMI via emulation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamrodHare Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 Simple solution, get an old CRT TV and play the games the way they were meant to be played. You won't be happy with the graphics on that huge HD TV. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
froggerchamp Posted April 12, 2022 Author Share Posted April 12, 2022 On 4/10/2022 at 7:02 PM, Nathan Strum said: An old VCR will do, although I'd suggest getting a Sony TU-1041U tuner off eBay (like I mention here) since the components are usually of better quality and it takes up much less space than a VCR. Then plug the 2600's RF into that, then plug the tuner into composite-in + audio on your TV, and let the TV do the scaling. Turn off any aspect ratio stretching (the 2600 was not 16:9), turn off frame interpolation (it can make 2600 graphics look wonky) and put the TV in Game mode for the fastest response time. The picture won't be crisp, but it should work, and it's probably the simplest way to get something working. As I mentioned in that blog article, the better RF cables you use, the cleaner your picture will be. To get a really clean picture, you need to mod your console (or have someone do it for you). S-Video is better than composite, but TVs don't come with S-Video inputs anymore, so you'd need a scaler. Component or RGB can look better than S-Video, but S-Video mods are easier to come by, and S-Video (or more specifically Y/C) is actually how the 2600 natively outputs video anyway. For scaling to HDMI, I've heard the RetroTINK 5X-Pro is a very good scaler, but I've never used one. If you don't care about using actual cartridges (or genuine original hardware), you can get a RetroN 77 and load the latest community build of Stella on it. Support for physical cartridges is minimal, but pretty-much every 2600 game can be loaded onto a microSD card and be played that way in razor-sharp HDMI via emulation. Hoooly crap that is great advice. Thank you so much, Nathan. EPIC blog post!! <3 So I read through that comment, then looked at the massive epic post you made.....I've had to read it several times to really let it sink in. Thank you! I went to eBay and proceeded to look for a decent Sony TU-1041U tuner; they seem to all be missing cords and remotes and whatnot. So I have a few questions; I hope you don't mind helping me with these. 1.] What are the essential items that this Sony TU-1041U tuner needs, just a power cord and a remote............is that it, or anything else? 2.] How hard is it to find these things -- cords, remotes, etc....? 3.] And what is the model number for each (cord, remote, etc.)? 4.] Where would I be likely to find the correct OEM power cord and remote....eBay or somewhere else? 5.] Would I be better to WAIT until I find a unit with everything (power cord, remote, etc.).....or should I get the unit FIRST, and look around for all the other stuff? Thanks again for all your wonderful info.....and thanks in advance for any and all help with these questions, Nathan Strum!!! --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
froggerchamp Posted April 12, 2022 Author Share Posted April 12, 2022 On 4/9/2022 at 9:39 AM, AtariSphinx said: First make sure not to confuse 120Hz refresh rate (how fast it redraws the screen) vs the 60Hz in the outlet (in the USA). Most flat screen TVs are 120Hz so this is not your issue. The main issue is that your TV does not have an analog TV tuner (NTSC tuner). This is why you either need to get an external tuner (such as VCR) or as suggested by bcombee user modify the Atari to have composite output (the cable with yellow white red 3 outputs). Once you have a VCR, you don't need much other equipment. First connect the Atari to the antenna in coaxial connector in the back of the VCR. You either need one of those switch boxes that used to come with an Atari or even better is the F connector. For the F connector you connect that directly to the cable coming out of the Atari then connect that to the back of the VCR as I described above. Make sure to connect to the in not out coaxial on the back of the VCR. Next connect a standard composite cable (one of those cables that have the yellow, white,red wires ) to the back of the VCR. Connect to the video out as some VCR also have a video in as well). Connect the other end to the back of the TV (your TV has one of those inputs). If your VCR does not have a red connector just don't connect that wire Plug in the VCR. Turn on your TV and change to the composite input on the TV (sometimes called video in the menu). Now turn on the VCR and using the VCR remote switch the channel on the VCR to either channel 2 or 3 (depends on the switch on your atari if it has one or only 3 of it does not). You should see snow on the TV. If you put a cart in Atari and turn it on, you should see the game on the screen. Now how good will it look without an upscaler will be the question. Hope that helps. There are several YouTube videos that go through this as well. Thank you so much, AtariSphinx! --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
froggerchamp Posted April 12, 2022 Author Share Posted April 12, 2022 On 4/11/2022 at 4:17 AM, RamrodHare said: Simple solution, get an old CRT TV and play the games the way they were meant to be played. You won't be happy with the graphics on that huge HD TV. I wish it was that simple. I might, in the future.....but for now, this TV is it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 16 minutes ago, froggerchamp said: I wish it was that simple. I might, in the future.....but for now, this TV is it. Old CRTs are dead cheap. Space problems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
froggerchamp Posted April 12, 2022 Author Share Posted April 12, 2022 20 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: Old CRTs are dead cheap. Space problems? Wellll...primarily that this is a gift. This entire setup...is so I can help my best friend play ATARI again, like we did when we were kids. It's his TV, and this is all being done as a gift for him. And he loves his big TV; as much as he loved his old CRT, we need to make this work for his big-azz TV. Cuz I adore him, really, and want him to be happy. And, before a few life changes are made (I will be moving), I want to play ATARI with him, one last time. <3 --- 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nathan Strum Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 3 hours ago, froggerchamp said: Hoooly crap that is great advice. Thank you so much, Nathan. EPIC blog post!! ❤️ So I read through that comment, then looked at the massive epic post you made.....I've had to read it several times to really let it sink in. Thank you! You're welcome! 3 hours ago, froggerchamp said: 1.] What are the essential items that this Sony TU-1041U tuner needs, just a power cord and a remote............is that it, or anything else? You don't need the remote. Once you set it to channel 3 using the buttons on the front of the tuner, you'll never need to touch it again. Otherwise, just a power cable, an RCA to RF adapter (if using the stock Atari RF cable) to go from the 2600 into the tuner, some RCA cables to go from the tuner to the TV and an RCA to BNC adapter, since the video-out on the tuner is actually a BNC connector. Measure first, to make sure you're buying cables that are long enough. 3 hours ago, froggerchamp said: 3.] And what is the model number for each (cord, remote, etc.)? Any standard PC power cord (like this one) will work. Nothing special. 3 hours ago, froggerchamp said: 5.] Would I be better to WAIT until I find a unit with everything (power cord, remote, etc.).....or should I get the unit FIRST, and look around for all the other stuff? No need to wait. Just buy one that they say has been tested and works (and lets you get a refund if it doesn't). Some models are stereo, some are mono. I'd go with stereo (it won't be "true" stereo, but sound will come out of both speakers rather than just one). 3 hours ago, froggerchamp said: Thanks again for all your wonderful info.....and thanks in advance for any and all help with these questions, Nathan Strum!!! Glad to help. Hope it all works! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
froggerchamp Posted April 13, 2022 Author Share Posted April 13, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Nathan Strum said: No need to wait. Just buy one that they say has been tested and works (and lets you get a refund if it doesn't). Some models are stereo, some are mono. I'd go with stereo (it won't be "true" stereo, but sound will come out of both speakers rather than just one). AWESOME!!!! How would I tell if it was "mono" or "stereo"...? I don't see any note on any of these that they are mono or stereo....so how would I be able to tell if the seller does not specify if it's mono or stereo? THANKS AGAIN!! --- Edited April 13, 2022 by froggerchamp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0078265317 Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 Or if the tv has coax just hookup a vcr. Then the vas into the vcr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0078265317 Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 (edited) This shows there is a coax in the back. 9 minutes and 25 seconds in. Edited April 13, 2022 by 0078265317 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nathan Strum Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 1 hour ago, froggerchamp said: How would I tell if it was "mono" or "stereo"...? I don't see any note on any of these that they are mono or stereo....so how would I be able to tell if the seller does not specify if it's mono or stereo? On the back of the unit, there will be one audio jack if mono: And two if stereo: Pretty sure the TU-1041U is stereo-only, and the TU-1040 is mono. But not every eBay seller lists the correct model number , so be sure they post a photo of the back of the unit they're actually selling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.A.P. Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 Is the power cord for them hard to find? All the ones I see on ebay don't include it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0078265317 Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 27 minutes ago, T.A.P. said: Is the power cord for them hard to find? All the ones I see on ebay don't include it. Power cord for what? A 2600? Or the tv converters in strum's photos. Those are standard computer power supply cords. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.A.P. Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 1 minute ago, 0078265317 said: Power cord for what? A 2600? Or the tv converters in strum's photos. Those are standard computer power supply cords. The TV tuner strum was suggesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0078265317 Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Nathan Strum said: On the back of the unit, there will be one audio jack if mono: And two if stereo: Pretty sure the TU-1041U is stereo-only, and the TU-1040 is mono. But not every eBay seller lists the correct model number , so be sure they post a photo of the back of the unit they're actually selling. Atari 2600 is mono only so what does it matter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0078265317 Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 Just now, T.A.P. said: The TV tuner strum was suggesting. A VCR would do the same thing wouldn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0078265317 Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 Or instead of ebay buy locally so you can return it if needed. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ematic-ATSC-Digital-Converter-Box-AT103B/300817320 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Mediasonic-HOMEWORX-Digital-Converter-Box-Compact-Edition-with-TV-Tuner-Recording-Media-Player-Flat-Antenna-and-HDMI-Cable-HW135STBA/308316799 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nathan Strum Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 6 hours ago, T.A.P. said: The TV tuner strum was suggesting. Yep - that's just a standard power cord, like the one I linked to previously. Easy to find pretty-much anywhere. 6 hours ago, 0078265317 said: Atari 2600 is mono only so what does it matter? If you plug a mono audio cable into a stereo TV, the sound only comes out one speaker (unless the TV is smart enough to split it to both channels). Not a deal-breaker, but annoying (you could also use a 'Y' cable to split it, but the resulting signal will be weaker). 6 hours ago, 0078265317 said: A VCR would do the same thing wouldn't it? Yep. But the tuners are cheap and much smaller than any VCR. Plus, they're built to a high quality since they were meant to be used as professional equipment. And they look cool. To each their own, but for RF, I've found the Sony tuner plus a good quality cable to give the best results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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