2D games with 3D elements

[alucardX]

I'm trying to think of any Jaguar games that are 2D games that use 3D elements. I know this was something that was done on a lot of other systems but I'm not sure about the Jag. Can anyone think of an example?

 

The next question I have is more technical. What kind of a performance hit would the Jag take mixing elements like that? I don't want to be too generalized here but what I'm thinking is a 2D scroller where some elements that show up are simple shaded 3D objects. Maybe a boss or maybe something else throughout the level. I know size and polygon count make a big difference in the numbers so I guess I'm looking for a thought on what a good scenario would look like and where someone might think this could bring the frame rate down too much.

 

I don't have any technical expertise with coding the Jaguar right now but I know that so many here are very talented and might have some insight on the subject so any input is very appreciated.

 

Happy hacking.

Edited May 5, 2022 by alucardX
Fixed typo in title.

[pacman000]

Didn't Highlander use 3D polygonal characters on prerendered backgrounds?

 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2022 by pacman000

[sirlynxalot]

Lots of jag games mix 2d and 3d elements.  But I have a feeling you're trying to think of stuff like a 2d sprite based fighting, platform or puzzle game with 3d polygon objects in the background such as Marvel vs Capcom 2.  Can't think of much on that score. 

[Jag64]

I feel like a lot of the library was pseudo 3D, 2.5D (think on-rail shooters like Nights Into Dreams or Tempest 2K, two vastly different styles), and 2D with 3D elements. From Trevor McFur basically being BJ West's graphic demo disguised as a shooter cart to the pre-rendered backgrounds and set pieces in Highlander on the CD, it's everywhere.

 

To you point, it wouldn't be hard to churn out pre-rendered stuff. Address the size limitations with a micro SD slapped on a PCB and something like FFVII on the Jaguar becomes possible. ... Built from scratch!

 

*Speaking of pre-renders... working on rendering a new Jag mascot. Avatar examples of the progress:

 

 

Edited May 5, 2022 by Jag64
Add avatar renders

[Zerosquare]

Tempest 2000 uses real 3D. It's just not obvious because the view point doesn't move much.

[Shaggy the Atarian]

Not sure if you would count the FPS titles, but given all the enemies are 2D sprites and you're running around 3D environments, perhaps that would?

 

There's also Atari Karts, Blue Lighting, Super Burnout, Val d'Isere and WMCJ that could be construed that way thanks to them putting you into a 3D perspective, if that's what you're thinking of.

[Jag64]

51 minutes ago, Zerosquare said:

Tempest 2000 uses real 3D. It's just not obvious because the view point doesn't move much.

You're right. I was picturing the level during basic/static gameplay from memory, but forgot about how the levels come in, depth of enemies, etc. I fired it up last summer when I started digging out the Jaguars, but haven't played much - because I am AWFUL at it, lol.

 

[alucardX]

4 hours ago, pacman000 said:

Didn't Highlander use 3D polygonal characters on prerendered backgrounds?

 

 

 

I was thinking of something more dynamic than this. Something with a moving background and moving sprites mixed with polygonal rendered elements.

[alucardX]

3 hours ago, sirlynxalot said:

Lots of jag games mix 2d and 3d elements.  But I have a feeling you're trying to think of stuff like a 2d sprite based fighting, platform or puzzle game with 3d polygon objects in the background such as Marvel vs Capcom 2.  Can't think of much on that score. 

Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking. I know there are many games where it is a 3D playfield with a 2D HUD or cockpit or something like that.

[alucardX]

1 hour ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

Not sure if you would count the FPS titles, but given all the enemies are 2D sprites and you're running around 3D environments, perhaps that would?

 

There's also Atari Karts, Blue Lighting, Super Burnout, Val d'Isere and WMCJ that could be construed that way thanks to them putting you into a 3D perspective, if that's what you're thinking of.

While the look of those games is 3D, there aren't any polygons being drawn. Maybe WMCJ is drawing some...I don't know.

[alucardX]

3 hours ago, Jag64 said:

I feel like a lot of the library was pseudo 3D, 2.5D (think on-rail shooters like Nights Into Dreams or Tempest 2K, two vastly different styles), and 2D with 3D elements. From Trevor McFur basically being BJ West's graphic demo disguised as a shooter cart to the pre-rendered backgrounds and set pieces in Highlander on the CD, it's everywhere.

 

To you point, it wouldn't be hard to churn out pre-rendered stuff. Address the size limitations with a micro SD slapped on a PCB and something like FFVII on the Jaguar becomes possible. ... Built from scratch!

 

*Speaking of pre-renders... working on rendering a new Jag mascot. Avatar examples of the progress:

 

 

Is she going to be in a Dead or Alive style game? We'll have to do some research to get the physics just right.

 

I know we can do some very nice looking pre-rendered stuff and that might play a part in my idea too. I was thinking about rendering polygons in real time but I don't want slowdown.

[Jag64]

 

14 minutes ago, alucardX said:

Is she going to be in a Dead or Alive style game? We'll have to do some research to get the physics just right.

 

I know we can do some very nice looking pre-rendered stuff and that might play a part in my idea too. I was thinking about rendering polygons in real time but I don't want slowdown.

Well, if you want to render polys in realtime, the counts (e.g. number of triangles you can play with on screen) are pretty much established. I'd suggest playing around with some of the demo content / SDKs available to get a better idea of the Atari Jaguar.

 

Also, there's a dope af little button at the bottom of every post; it's right next to the quote button with a [+]. When you tap that, it will add the quote to the reply you have going (bottom or active). Some of these old timers can get rattled over a bunch of quotes that could be combined. I don't care; I'm new. Just in case you didn't know, bro.

Edited May 5, 2022 by Jag64

[alucardX]

3 minutes ago, Jag64 said:

 

Well, if you want to render polys in realtime, the counts (e.g. number of triangles you can play with on screen) are pretty much established. I'd suggest playing around with some of the demo content / SDKs available to get a better idea of the Atari Jaguar.

 

Also, there's a dope af little button at the bottom of every post; it's right next to the quote button with a [+]. When you tap that, it will add the quote to the reply you have going (bottom or active). Some of these old timers can get rattled over a bunch of quotes that could be combined. I don't care; I'm new. Just in case you didn't know, bro.

Thanks for the tip on the quotes. I appreciate that.

 

I think the poly counts are very dependent on the renderer and how optimized it is. I am not sure how well optimized some of the current renderers but I know there are folks here that might know. I also don't know how well we're going to draw sprites while rendering polys. I'll find a vid of a game from another system to show what I am thinking of.

[alucardX]

I am thinking something like some of the stuff in Radiant Silvergun, but maybe no texture mapping (unless it can be made to work).

 

https://yewtu.be/watch?v=6jTE6vDfDB0

[+Stephen]

42 minutes ago, Jag64 said:

 

Well, if you want to render polys in realtime, the counts (e.g. number of triangles you can play with on screen) are pretty much established. I'd suggest playing around with some of the demo content / SDKs available to get a better idea of the Atari Jaguar.

 

Also, there's a dope af little button at the bottom of every post; it's right next to the quote button with a [+]. When you tap that, it will add the quote to the reply you have going (bottom or active). Some of these old timers can get rattled over a bunch of quotes that could be combined. I don't care; I'm new. Just in case you didn't know, bro.

Please keep 75% to 80% of the polygons dedicated to the boobs.  The more polygons, the better the physics for the jiggly bounce.

 

[Stage_1_Boss]

4 hours ago, Jag64 said:

I feel like a lot of the library was pseudo 3D, 2.5D (think on-rail shooters like Nights Into Dreams or Tempest 2K, two vastly different styles), and 2D with 3D elements. From Trevor McFur basically being BJ West's graphic demo disguised as a shooter cart to the pre-rendered backgrounds and set pieces in Highlander on the CD, it's everywhere.

 

To you point, it wouldn't be hard to churn out pre-rendered stuff. Address the size limitations with a micro SD slapped on a PCB and something like FFVII on the Jaguar becomes possible. ... Built from scratch!

 

*Speaking of pre-renders... working on rendering a new Jag mascot. Avatar examples of the progress:

 

 

 

 

Hello

[sirlynxalot]

They can both be in the Jaguar or Alive 3D high poly texture mapped fighting game.

[Stage_1_Boss]

4 minutes ago, sirlynxalot said:

They can both be in the Jaguar or Alive 3D high poly texture mapped fighting game.

Fight for Physics

[Shaggy the Atarian]

5 minutes ago, alucardX said:

I am thinking something like some of the stuff in Radiant Silvergun, but maybe no texture mapping (unless it can be made to work).

 

https://yewtu.be/watch?v=6jTE6vDfDB0

In that sense, there are very few examples of real 3D poly environments being blended with 2D sprites (that I can think of) - WMCJ looks like the court might be polygon, but I'm not sure. Missile Command Plus and Breakout 2000 would be other maybes (I think the bricks are polys). Supercross 3D definitely does this, but the only other examples I can think of are unfinished games like Livewire & Black Ice/White Noise.

[sirlynxalot]

34 minutes ago, Stage_1_Boss said:

Fight for Physics

Fight for Framerate

[alucardX]

9 minutes ago, sirlynxalot said:

Fight for Framerate

Name of the 3D Jaggy game.

[agradeneu]

4 hours ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

In that sense, there are very few examples of real 3D poly environments being blended with 2D sprites (that I can think of) - WMCJ looks like the court might be polygon, but I'm not sure. Missile Command Plus and Breakout 2000 would be other maybes (I think the bricks are polys). Supercross 3D definitely does this, but the only other examples I can think of are unfinished games like Livewire & Black Ice/White Noise.

Every 3D game has some sprites (e.g. explosions or all objects like in AVP).I think he meant something like a 2D shooter/environment with a few stand out 3D objects, 

Like Thunderforce V. That havent been done yet on the Jag. (No polys in Breakout 2000 IMO)

Edited May 6, 2022 by agradeneu

[agradeneu]

5 hours ago, alucardX said:

I am thinking something like some of the stuff in Radiant Silvergun, but maybe no texture mapping (unless it can be made to work).

 

https://yewtu.be/watch?v=6jTE6vDfDB0

Quite funny, I was thinking about the same idea some weeks ago: 3D features for a 2D sprite engine.

 

BTW would only make sense texture mapped.

 

  

Edited May 6, 2022 by agradeneu

[agradeneu]

3D calulation in a 2d game might help with fast rotation, tilting effects of texture images and so on. Or some simple 3d objects, rather small but with delicate texture detail.

 

[Jag64]

11 hours ago, Stage_1_Boss said:

Hello

A new challenger!

Edited May 6, 2022 by Jag64