+Peter Rabitt Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 Hi ALL... Well I have been trying to "un-atr" a few files but with no success.. The one file is Fashback.ATR...I downloaded it from a web site and put it onto a cl card and tried to run it on my a8 800xl. I did run it in the Altirra and it had 3 files XDOS.sys, flashback.com, and restore.com... I can not get them to work in the a8 system... When I try to run it to un do the ATR and get the files it say "not a binary file" ??? How do you un-do the ATR or how do you copy the files that Altirra found to a disk or sd card or cl card to use on the A8.. I have 19 disks that use this file saver and would like to restore the files what ever they are... Thanks Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spookt Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 Hey Peter What kind of device are you using as a drive? You shouldn’t need to ‘un-atr’ the file. Depending on the device, mount it in drive 1 and boot it. It should respond exactly like a real floppy drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Peter Rabitt Posted May 28, 2022 Author Share Posted May 28, 2022 (edited) OK will try. I have been using one of the sd/cl type drives, do I need to put it on a disk??? and just boot it from their?? Sounds ok. will try... Once it has "un-atr" can I move the files around to different drives like a SD or CL.. Does it need the DOS that came with it?? Thanks Peter UPDATE: Sorry I just tried and all I got was Boot error... My 810 as drive #1.. loaded the file on a formatted disk DD. I booted sdx and the file comes up in the DIR but does not run... This is want usually happen when I try to run ATR's with multi files in it.. I can run files that are just files/programs and they work great... UPDATE: Just checked and in the Altirra the dos is x32d is a "dos" x32d.dos!!! Edited May 28, 2022 by Peter Rabitt uodate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spookt Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 Hi Peter. I think if you could tell us which “sd/cl” device you’re using and maybe post the ATR file here someone will probably be able to help. In general most of devices that allow us to use SD cards on our Ataris act exactly like a real floppy drive once you’ve mounted an ATR image. So if the ATR file is bootable you should be able to boot it in exactly the same way you would a real physical disk. It sounds like the ATR you have is formatted as SpartaDOS 3.2 but again, if you post it up here so we can see it that would be helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 Also separating files from an ATR isn't a good thing in some cases, the main file may load other data files, so un-atr'ing them may be pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillC Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Mclaneinc said: Also separating files from an ATR isn't a good thing in some cases, the main file may load other data files, so un-atr'ing them may be pointless. This shouldn't be an issue with the Flashback ATR, the v2.3 disk ony contains 3 files: SpartaDOS, the backup utility, and the restore utility. ICD expected some users would wish to make customised floppies or move utilities to HDD partitions/MIO RAMdisk. X32D.DOS FLASHBK.COM RESTORE.COM Edited May 29, 2022 by BillC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 I was more speaking in general regarding ATR's, to be honest I am still sort of trying to work out why the OP want's to do this Then again, I never use Spartados (except to reflash the U1MB) and never did back in the day, so the OP may have a fair point (apologies if that's the case), but in general, unless you know what you are doing, it's not usually a good idea to mess with files on an ATR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGB1718 Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 I downloaded FLASHBACK and as you say there are 3 files on disk. I copied the FLASHBK.COM & RESTORE.COM files onto a SIDE3 partition and they both ran fine from there. On a machine with U1M you just have to use the 'X' option otherwise it says "Remove Cartridge" So not sure what your doing as it looks like you should be able to copy these files and they will still work. Not sure if SDX is needed, but I would assume so as I think it can backup directories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bf2k+ Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 Sometimes with SDX booted, you get the "Not a binary file" message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillC Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 11 hours ago, TGB1718 said: I downloaded FLASHBACK and as you say there are 3 files on disk. I copied the FLASHBK.COM & RESTORE.COM files onto a SIDE3 partition and they both ran fine from there. On a machine with U1M you just have to use the 'X' option otherwise it says "Remove Cartridge" So not sure what your doing as it looks like you should be able to copy these files and they will still work. Not sure if SDX is needed, but I would assume so as I think it can backup directories. The included SpartaDOS 3.2D should be sufficient, Flashback was released before SpartaDOS X. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Peter Rabitt Posted May 29, 2022 Author Share Posted May 29, 2022 Well I have tried everything from the AVG card( I have the SIO cable hoped it would help BUT) to the Fujinet to the IDE2+ but nothing seem to go.. I did get close... I got "NO-DOS" error...LOL I tried with sdx 4.9 ??( on the IDE ) and an old one 3.2 or something (was on the Fujinet) but no help..I did find that the fujinet does not like the neat SIO parallel connector... When I plug in the SIO to the connectors it stop working. Tried to boot and it goes to self test, basic first then self test...Needed the system to have a place to store the files if I got them out.. Got a lot of "Not a binary file" errors... I have the file on a disk and tried it from there and no help. Just get a blue screen... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bf2k+ Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 I would try it without the FujiNet to get it working... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 Peter- Can you use APE? I have no trouble copying the files from the Atarimania FlashBack ATR. I also verified that the files from the Atarimania ATR are identical to my original FlashBack disk. Thus far, I've been unsuccessful trying to do this with my AVGCART or my UNOCART -- my AVG says that I need to have OSXEX2 in the root directory (I'm trying to get a copy of OSXEX2). I also do not have an SIO cable at this point. The UNOCART just goes to a black screen and locks up. The UNOCART will load quite a few ATR's for me, but not Sparta. -Larry Edit: I got with the Ver 25 firmware including OSXEX2, and that made no difference, except now it goes to a black screen just like my UNOCART. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Peter Rabitt Posted May 30, 2022 Author Share Posted May 30, 2022 Hi All good Holiday to all...Hope everyone who wants to BBQ or watch a game today gets to... Larry the file (OSXEX2) in with the AVG firmware I think 0025 is the latest... I have the files on my AVG but it still does not help. I also have the SIO connector that should help but?? I will "tear down" every thing and start again... Still don't understand I can see the files (3) in the emulator(and run them) but can't get them to the A8. I am using my 800xl w/256k.. I will start with just the AVG cart ( my 810 dd as drive 2) then maybe add the Fujinet or ?? I would like to have the running programs on the IDE so I can undo the 19 or so floppies I have ... Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machf Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 (edited) The only way I can think of "un-ATRing" an ATR file (which is an image of a disk, NOT a compressed archive file) is to use software on a PC with a 5.25" floppy drive and write the image to a diskette. Or convert the ATR image to a DCM image, use MyUTIL and a 5.25" drive on the PC to write the DCM image to a diskette (or find another way to transfer it to media that can be read on the A8), and then on the A8 use Disk Commander to restore that DCM file back to a floppy disk. Edited May 30, 2022 by machf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machf Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 18 hours ago, Peter Rabitt said: Well I have tried everything from the AVG card( I have the SIO cable hoped it would help BUT) to the Fujinet to the IDE2+ but nothing seem to go.. I did get close... I got "NO-DOS" error...LOL I tried with sdx 4.9 ??( on the IDE ) and an old one 3.2 or something (was on the Fujinet) but no help..I did find that the fujinet does not like the neat SIO parallel connector... When I plug in the SIO to the connectors it stop working. Tried to boot and it goes to self test, basic first then self test...Needed the system to have a place to store the files if I got them out.. Got a lot of "Not a binary file" errors... I have the file on a disk and tried it from there and no help. Just get a blue screen... OK, so I did a quick read to find out what this "AVGcart" is. From what I've read on their site, you can use the SIO cable attached to them to mount ATR files written on the SD card as "virtual drives". So, if you get a "boot error" message, it may mean there's no DOS on the disk imaged on the ATR file (but you say it booted fine inside Altirra, right? Hmmm...). Try setting the virtual drive as #2 and a physical drive as #1, boot from your physical drive (you said you had an 810?) and then list the contents of D2: Ideally, you should use the same DOS that was used to format the disk from which the ATR image was generated... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Peter Rabitt Posted May 30, 2022 Author Share Posted May 30, 2022 (edited) OK thanks for all the help... Many GREAT ideas where tried and I found the answer...First I found the "x32d.dos" keep deleting it self...The dir came back with a 0 sec. ??? I guess every time I tried to copy it, it said can not copy or something like that...I did download a second copy and had the same problems..By the way the copy on the PC was OK only after trying to get it to work on the 800xl did the file go away..So here is what I think "fixed" it...After adding the ATR back to the AVG card and then running it from the AVG i finally could copy the 2 files to d2: (810 dd) but could not run them..tried the great and famous sdx 4.9 ? and it would not work... So I grabbed my OLD cartage SDX 4.1 something and it worked... Now I needed a place to restore the files, so I wanted to end up with them on the IDE for the present time...Large storage and easy to get to...But the "OLD sdx would not see the "disks" as they where 512 and not 256 so switch to a different CL for the IDE and it work.(had formatted it with 256 ) So I am ready to go but guess what, I have missed placed the 19 floppies I have been setting for but I will find them again... THANK AGAIN ALL Peter Will let you know when I find the disks 19. Should not be that hard LOL Edited May 30, 2022 by Peter Rabitt sp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machf Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 All this got me thinking... how hard would it be to write a sector copier which uses a large-capacity storage device (HDD, SD card, whatever other options there may be) to store an .ATR file? Like some copiers for the PC whch gave you the option to do that instead of having to keep swapping the source and destination diskettes on the drive. Of course, it would not only allow you to create a temporary .ATR file on the large capacity drive, but also a permanent one (if you specify that as the destination), and to use an .ATR file as a source too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGB1718 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 If you used a sector copier to do something like that, the destination disk would only be seen as a duplicate of the original .ATR, the rest of the device (HDD,SD Card) would be unusable. Sector copiers are generally used to duplicate devices of the same size whether that's a floppy disk or a hard disk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrFSL Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 Respeqt? Mount the ATR open the "show properties" and extract? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bf2k+ Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 3 hours ago, machf said: All this got me thinking... how hard would it be to write a sector copier which uses a large-capacity storage device (HDD, SD card, whatever other options there may be) to store an .ATR file? You mean something like this? I suspect Konrad's HDSC is probably a lot faster than mine as mine is compiled Atari basic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machf Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 6 hours ago, TGB1718 said: If you used a sector copier to do something like that, the destination disk would only be seen as a duplicate of the original .ATR, the rest of the device (HDD,SD Card) would be unusable. Sector copiers are generally used to duplicate devices of the same size whether that's a floppy disk or a hard disk. The idea is to use the larger capacity drive as a temporary storage... have you never seen that done on other systems? Like for example, Disk Copy Fast for MS-DOS, IIRC... you can see it on the Internet Archive: https://archive.org/details/DCF41_ZIP You can either generate a temporary image file or a permanent one... useful when you want to write multiple copies of the same diskette. There is nothing set in stone saying that you must read the sector data and just keep it in memory to immediately write it to another disk, after all. Also saves disk-swapping when you only have a single disk drive. 3 hours ago, bf2k+ said: You mean something like this? I suspect Konrad's HDSC is probably a lot faster than mine as mine is compiled Atari basic. Where could I find more info on this one and the other one you mentioned? To see how they are meant to work... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bf2k+ Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 15 minutes ago, machf said: Where could I find more info on this one and the other one you mentioned? To see how they are meant to work... HDSC is a SpartaDOS utility written by Drac030. He should probably tell you about that one. I think you can download it from his SpartaDOS website. His is faster than mine. Mine (above) is just me playing with the Atari basic compiler (mmg). As for how it is 'meant' to work... it just works. It copies a specific number of sectors beginning at sector 1 from Dx: to Dy: Dx: & Dy: can be floppies, ATRs, etc but must be on different disks (disk swapping not supported here) Supports 128bps and 256bps. No 512bps support yet but I will most likely add it. I have added it to most of my other utilities. Supports command line and interactive mode Runs in high speed SIO but it is not a speed demon Reads / writes 12800 bytes (= 1 pass); 1 sector at a time. Up to 16mb drive supported currently (65535 secs) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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