JagCD Question

[TheGrandPubaa]

So I got the unit this morning, but couldn't mess with it for over 5 hours until I got off work(talk about agony). Tonight, I finally open the box and I see a JagCD box(didn't expect the box to be with it), and beside it were the foam-wrapped games(Bubsy, Myst, Baldies, Braindead 13). They happened to be shrinkwrapped...It was very painful to have to rip off the plastic, but of course, a game is only fun if it's played. I hooked up the unit to specifications, and every game has tested perfect(though, they will take some time learning how to play).

 

Then, later on, I took a recently burned cd which tested fine on my computer. I tried to play it in my JagCD and thats when a little cd/? icon popped up. Of course, the system is set up properly, so I open the cd lid, which resets the system, and I close it again. This time the cd playing page loads up, though when I try to play the tracks, nothing happens. Then, just to make sure that nothing freak happened to my JagCD, I tested Baldies, which ran flawlessly(and loaded quite fast, I might add).

 

In my roundabout way, my question is whether or not burned cds will work in a JagCD, and if they do, are only certain brands compatible?

[ARETHIUS]

I'm not the Hardware specialsit, but I never had problem with playing burned CDs on my Jag, sometimes it takes a little bit longer to load up but; it runs.

 

Maybe it comes of the programme you've used to burn your CD

[TXG/MNX]

Then, later on, I took a recently burned cd which tested fine on my computer. I tried to play it in my JagCD and thats when a little cd/? icon popped up. Of course, the system is set up properly, so I open the cd lid, which resets the system, and I close it again. This time the cd playing page loads up, though when I try to play the tracks, nothing happens. Then, just to make sure that nothing freak happened to my JagCD, I tested Baldies, which ran flawlessly(and loaded quite fast, I might add).

 

In my roundabout way, my question is whether or not burned cds will work in a JagCD, and if they do, are only certain brands compatible?

 

What's on the CD?

 

- The jaguar cd support jaguar game cd's and audio cd's. No other format is supported.

- For cd's like american hero or caves of fear (movies) and painter need a bypass cartridge/loader. To bypass you need Battlesphere Gold, Protector SE or the Bypass cartridge of B&C.

- The jaguar cd can read cd-r but remember the jaguar player is a double speed so try to burn them at 1x or 2x this mostly works aswell.

 

TXG/MNX

[walter_J64bit]

Ive found that if you use highend CDRs it runs just fine!

[LinkoVitch]

perhaps the laser alignment isn't quite perfect hence it will only play glass mastered originals.. try it on a bough CD not a CDR and see if it's happy with that. Then at least you know it's the CD-R's.

 

I remember back in the day when some CD ROM drives wouldn't read CD-R discs. so you should count yourself lucky that it can play them (as stated by other people)

[TheGrandPubaa]

Update:

Upon testing the cd unit with my music cdr, it seems to work fine. I'm using the vlm for it right now, and it rocks. I don't know why it wouldn't work last night, but I appreciate the help nonetheless.

[+Stephen Moss]

Recordable CD's - bloody terrible things.

There are two things to watch for....

 

1)

In my experiance you should use the more expencive silver discs as the cheap one are usually coloured (often Blue, although sometimes Yellow) and rely on a change of colouring to indicate the data and never seem to work on in any unit (PC, DVD, CD or other) except for the one that burnt them.

 

I believe that the photo diodes used in CDR unit may have a different responce from normal lasers because of the tint itself as this will absorb much of the nornal laser light where as the silver disc will reflect more of it back thus returning enought signal for normal CD laser units like those in the Jag CD to read correctly.

Also it is possible that over the years the tint may fade making the disk unreaable.

 

2)

When buring CD's you have two format options Data and Audio, I believe I am correct in saying that data format can store more information than the audio format as the reduction in laser wavelength used in these units means that smaller dot & dashes can be used to write the information where as larger dots & dashes are used when burning CD's using the audio format.

As I have never burned a myself I cannot be sure of this fact but it is possible that the size of the dots & dashes for the data format may be to small for the Jag CD to read and so it may be best to burn your Jag CD using the audio format.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I am in error here.

 

 

In conclusion if you having trouble reading a CD burned by one machine on another (of any type) first try using better quality silver disks, not the coloured ones and if your still having problems try burning it using the audio format as opposed to the data format.

[LinkoVitch]

2)

When buring CD's you have two format options Data and Audio, I believe I am correct in saying that data format can store more information than the audio format as the reduction in laser wavelength used in these units means that smaller dot & dashes can be used to write the information where as larger dots & dashes are used when burning CD's using the audio format.

As I have never burned a myself I cannot be sure of this fact but it is possible that the size of the dots & dashes for the data format may be to small for the Jag CD to read and so it may be best to burn your Jag CD using the audio format.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I am in error here.

 

I think you may have this wrong. An Audio blank is exactly the same as a data blank except that it has a few bits set differently so that Audio CD players recognise it as an audio blank and will record to it. Other than that they are exactly the same. They cost more due to royalties being paid to the music industry as they know you will most likley copy the odd CD with them. This is why the audio CD-Recorder decks will only accept them, but a PC Burner will use either just as well.

 

You can on some Audio CD recorder trick it into using data discs. One example I heard of was to put in an audio CDR and one the system recognised it, gently prise open the draw just enough to get the disc out and replace with a data blank. The recorder thinks it has a CD-Audio Recoradble and is happy. save you a few quid too

[Thunderbird]

2)

When buring CD's you have two format options Data and Audio, I believe I am correct in saying that data format can store more information than the audio format as the reduction in laser wavelength used in these units means that smaller dot & dashes can be used to write the information where as larger dots & dashes are used when burning CD's using the audio format.

As I have never burned a myself I cannot be sure of this fact but it is possible that the size of the dots & dashes for the data format may be to small for the Jag CD to read and so it may be best to burn your Jag CD using the audio format.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I am in error here.

 

I think you may have this wrong. An Audio blank is exactly the same as a data blank except that it has a few bits set differently so that Audio CD players recognise it as an audio blank and will record to it. Other than that they are exactly the same. They cost more due to royalties being paid to the music industry as they know you will most likley copy the odd CD with them. This is why the audio CD-Recorder decks will only accept them, but a PC Burner will use either just as well.

 

You can on some Audio CD recorder trick it into using data discs. One example I heard of was to put in an audio CDR and one the system recognised it, gently prise open the draw just enough to get the disc out and replace with a data blank. The recorder thinks it has a CD-Audio Recoradble and is happy. save you a few quid too

 

 

Seems to me like you could break the mechanism prying it like that. Is this really worth the small savings in price of the media? They all seem to be priced pretty much the same.

[LinkoVitch]

Seems to me like you could break the mechanism prying it like that. Is this really worth the small savings in price of the media? They all seem to be priced pretty much the same.

 

Probably however it wasn't my equipment or me doing it.

 

Never really looked at the prices, but when I have seen them they have been priced 30-50 pence per disc more expensive.

 

I have also heard of firmware hacks etc. Spose the prying open illustrates that the discs themselves are the same just with different identifying bits.

[TheGrandPubaa]

Okay, here's what I've discovered. I tried it the first time and it didn't work, and as aforementioned, I tried later and it did work. Some time later, I tried to play the same cd again, and it doesn't work. It could be a bad burn, I suppose, as about 5 or 6 tracks will play on my normal audio cd player(out of 15). Still, the JagCD recognises(sometimes) that it's reading an audio cd and will bring up the player menu. When I try to play, it usually doesn't work. I've still got to test it further with some more of my burned cds, so I'll keep you posted.

[Gunstar]

I'm really not sure myself that it's a matter of cheap or high quality cdr's; I have all kinds of brands of various quality and they all seem to work fine as long as I don't record at a speed higher than 1x or 2x, the only time I've had problems is when I've recorded at a higher speed than 2x. The only advantage I can see with more expensive discs is that some people here might be right about the longevity. But time will tell. I have all different tints too, silver, gold, blued, green, red, etc. I'm not sure it has a whole lot to do with the laser getting refracted more with the tints either. Anyone who has the BI/WN cd knows that it's a black disc similiar to PSX discs, and it works fine (although I don't know if it's a cdr or a regualar cd).

[LinkoVitch]

I don't understand this maximum of x2 burn speed. I have always burnt discs at the top rated speed of the drive, and never had a problem either with data or audio (or even DVD) because of it.

 

It sounds like the CD that is being intermittent is just a bad one, as if you CD player won't play it, why should anything else?

[Gunstar]

I don't understand this maximum of x2 burn speed.  I have always burnt discs at the top rated speed of the drive, and never had a problem either with data or audio (or even DVD) because of it.

 

It sounds like the CD that is being intermittent is just a bad one, as if you CD player won't play it, why should anything else?

 

Well as far as music goes, I have no idea, I've never actually recorded music to cdr's. I've only recorded DATA disks that are specifically made for the Jaguar and for the Dreamcast, and that is my experience, go beyond 2x speed and they never work properly for me, stay at 2x or 1x speed and they always work fine. Although i've never tired recording any DC stuff at above 2x just because i know it works and I hate to waste more cdr's finding out if i can copy DC stuff at a higher rate, although it probably would work since the DC drive is like a 12x speed drive...but form my experience and word from others, the safest bet is not to record at a speed higher than the drive your going to use it on can do. An example of this STONE has experienced with American hero; his CDR recorder can only recorded at a minimum of 4x speed and it shows in the results of the copied AH discs, they skip or crash a lot more than his original copy, and i can testifiy to it since I have the game. he says he never has the problems i do with his original and then he compared the copies to the original himslef and said it to be true. I think he has corrected this problem for those of you who are going to buy AH form him though, so you shouldn't worry. (it's just mine and a few other early copies with this problem, and they are still playable most of the time anyway)

[LinkoVitch]

I have never seen a problem, ever! and I have burnt a fair few CD's. I regularly burnt off logs at my previous workplace at a full 16x and then verified them, and they all worked fine. (and in different drives).

 

I have had problems with some brands of CD, when Maxell changed their discs to gold with silver writing they became the worst discs ever. their earlier discs were superbe.

[Gunstar]

I have never seen a problem, ever!  and I have burnt a fair few CD's.  I regularly burnt off logs at my previous workplace at a full 16x and then verified them, and they all worked fine.  (and in different drives).

 

I have had problems with some brands of CD, when Maxell changed their discs to gold with silver writing they became the worst discs ever.   their earlier discs were superbe.

 

Well, i'm mainly talking about my personal experiences with JAGCD's anyway. So are you saying that you have actually recorded JAGCD's at high rates of speed like 8 or 16x and THEY have worked flawlessly in the Jaguarcd for you? Stuff that is meant ONLY for the Jaguar cd and no other players?

[LinkoVitch]

not JagCD I was refering to PC discs only. Not tried Jag CD yet..

[Gunstar]

yeah, because I'm mainly talking about burning cdr's on PC's for use on consoles, more specifically the jaguar. I've never had any problems burning PC stuff for PC's either. Consoles are an entirely different story.

[+Stephen Moss]

2)

When buring CD's you have two format options Data and Audio, I believe I am correct in saying that data format can store more information than the audio format as the reduction in laser wavelength used in these units means that smaller dot & dashes can be used to write the information where as larger dots & dashes are used when burning CD's using the audio format.

As I have never burned a myself I cannot be sure of this fact but it is possible that the size of the dots & dashes for the data format may be to small for the Jag CD to read and so it may be best to burn your Jag CD using the audio format.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I am in error here.

 

I think you may have this wrong. An Audio blank is exactly the same as a data blank except that it has a few bits set differently so that Audio CD players recognise it as an audio blank and will record to it. Other than that they are exactly the same. They cost more due to royalties being paid to the music industry as they know you will most likley copy the odd CD with them. This is why the audio CD-Recorder decks will only accept them, but a PC Burner will use either just as well.

 

Perhaps I have not explained things clearly and we are talking at cross purposes, although I must admit that I was not aware that PC CDR blanks were available as either Data or Audio blanks. I thought all PC CDR blanks were the same until you burned them as one format or the other.

 

Both myself and others I know that have tried using blue tinted CDR's burned by a PC in either DVD players or PC CD-ROM drives (read only) have found that they only playback in the drive which burned them and not in our drives although yellow tinted ones seem to be more reliable and silver ones have no problems.

The reason for my hypothesis about it having to do with the recording format (Data or Audio) is that the only Blue tint CDR I have come across that worked flawlessly in every PC CD-ROM drive I have placed it in was the JagFest UK disc which I believe is recorded as an audio disk (because the Jag brings up the CD player when you insert it as opposed the unknow disc symbol) whereas all the other disc's I have tried were recorded as Data disc's.

 

Of the three possible explanations for this a difference between the recording format seemed the most logical explanation. Perhaps if the person who burned the Jagfest disc could explain how they did it

then TheGrandPubaa could use the same process with hopefully better results that at present.

[Paolo]

yeah, because I'm mainly talking about burning cdr's on PC's for use on consoles, more specifically the jaguar. I've never had any problems burning PC stuff for PC's either.

 

'Me too!'

 

Serious, I did back-up a lot of PC stuff, and it worked at ANY speed (although I feel more comfortable with slow speeds). But I could backup my Jag CDs only at 1x. I first tried a couple of times at 2x with mixed results, so I chose 1x and everything was fine.

 

Except that Unconquered Lands, the source is scratched and sometimes doesn't play ingame music

Should find that disc shiner tool...

 

Ciao

[Gunstar]

What is the Jagfest UK disc exactly? Is it a jagcd disc with jaguar programs/demos on it and cinipak movies? Or is it an audio disc that plays on any cd player? Or a PC disc with stuff on it for use with PC players like real video or quicktime etc.? Or even a PC disc that has Jag stuff on it that loads up onto Flashroms/Alpines and/or BJL/JUGS?

[Gunstar]

yeah, because I'm mainly talking about burning cdr's on PC's for use on consoles, more specifically the jaguar. I've never had any problems burning PC stuff for PC's either.

 

'Me too!'

 

Serious, I did back-up a lot of PC stuff, and it worked at ANY speed (although I feel more comfortable with slow speeds). But I could backup my Jag CDs only at 1x. I first tried a couple of times at 2x with mixed results, so I chose 1x and everything was fine.

 

Except that Unconquered Lands, the source is scratched and sometimes doesn't play ingame music

Should find that disc shiner tool...

 

Ciao

 

Did you use Clonecd to backup your Jagcd's or some other cd copier? I'm just curious if Clonecd is still the only program that will backup jagcd's or if there is another...

[Paolo]

Did you use Clonecd to backup your Jagcd's or some other cd copier? I'm just curious if Clonecd is still the only program that will backup jagcd's or if there is another...

 

I only used CloneCD, and it is quick and easy enough. If I remember correctly, Stone wrote he used something else to duplicate American Hero...

 

Ciao.

[Gunstar]

Did you use Clonecd to backup your Jagcd's or some other cd copier? I'm just curious if Clonecd is still the only program that will backup jagcd's or if there is another...

 

I only used CloneCD, and it is quick and easy enough. If I remember correctly, Stone wrote he used something else to duplicate American Hero...

 

Ciao.

 

Well, yeah, unencrypted Jagcd's can pretty much be copied by any cd copy program. It's the encrypted ones that AFAIK can only be copied with clonecd.

[Stone]

Well, yeah, unencrypted Jagcd's can pretty much be copied by any cd copy program. It's the encrypted ones that AFAIK can only be copied with clonecd.

 

What you mean is that with unencrypted CDs the copies don't have to be byte-perfect to still run on the Jag, since you're using a CD bypass which prevents the Jag's verification from doing its job. There'll probably be a couple of glitches somewhere in the copy - if you're lucky it'll be a bad pixel in some graphics or a millisecond blip in the audio, if not you'll get it going horribly wrong somewhere

 

Stone