PRGE 2022 - Intellivision Entertainment booth?

[MrBeefy]

3 hours ago, SegaSnatcher said:

That would have been the sweet spot for Amico.  That sub $200 price point would have positioned it well for what it offered compared to the competition. At this point even if they somehow manage to get this console manufactured and shipped to retailers they now have to struggle with the absurd $289.99/$339.99 price points.  They wanted to sell hundreds of thousands if not millions of units and well that is definitely not happening.   

Yup the price is a killer. The wife scoffed when I said the price had reached $250. I didn't talk to her about therecent price hike because our Switch now has all the casual games she could want.

 

I don't know why people think the price will go down. It won't. It was older tech that was over engineered. The controllers are weak and they drove up the price.

 

If anything the parts will reach EOY and they'd have to use something newer. But all of that is irrelevant because they, 1) have no money to launch.

 

2) if they scrounge up enough to make the 6000ish that is only 600,000ish of revenue (preorder money is spent and gone -600,000. They will get $200 per person roughly which will be more like $100 per person when you take out Sudesh's cut. Not perfect Math but gets close.) 

 

3) that money will not be enough to make a mass market run.

 

4) even if they wanted to make a mass market run they still have no money for marketing

 

5) still no FCC certs because... no money. That's assuming they've passed.

 

6) console life expectancy? With no money and no physical media as promised, not long.

On 6/24/2022 at 11:43 AM, mr_me said:

To sustain this thing they have to be successful in their primary target markets.  Because, yes, the retro gaming market isn't big enough to support them, especially since Amico games aren't exactly "retro" games.  And before that happens they have to get to mass production with costs that will allow them to sell this thing around $250.

 

They don't lose anything to Sudesh, as it's a manufacturing loan, it's part of the cost of manufacturing Amicos.  And since the loan has no interest and they said he would waive the loan fees, it becomes financing free of any charges.  You can't do better than that.  They'll need more short term financing in the future and the terms won't be as good as that one.  They have a long way to go to get to mass production.

Lots of suspension of disbelief. They totally lose revenue money to Sudesh. They are out of money and assuming IF they can make them that revenue is cut due to Sudesh. It was a horrible loan that they were so dumb to take considering they didn't immediately get the thing out.

 

There comes a point that you have to admit the retro crowd is the market and it even failed to do as good as the VCS there. The retro market seems to be supporting Evercade.

5 hours ago, mr_me said:

I'm not trying to help anyone's cause.  I'm just saying what happened.  And giving a price range is not a price, they were targeting within that range.  It didn't get a price until 2020 when they first started taking pre-orders.  Before that the concept received some changes including doubling storage, upgrading the touchscreen technology, upgrading the plastics.  Changes to the product plus other uncertainties is why you don't reveal these things to the public until the concept has matured over its development.

What happened is people got star struck and just accepted the word of someone trying to get everyone to open their pocketbooks to him. The truth is they were floundering and inept the entire way through this project. The project didn't mature. It was mismanaged and/or they lied about things.

 

It comes a point that when someone continually says things that aren't true you have to go with they either have no clue or they are a habitual liar. Either option is not good. If I communicated with my wife how the CEO and company did, I'd be sleeping in the car under a pier waiting for her to deliver me divorce papers. ?

[mr_me]

They believe that $250 works for the young families and casuals they are targeting, they say the retailers think so too.  Their market research is their business.   Maybe we won't get to that point to see what happens but people won't stop talking about it.

 

Where did the preorder money and the manufacturing loan go?  Did they not order component parts with it?  The first run of a few thousand Amicos should bring in about $200 each of outstanding revenue.  That will be used to pay the $100 per unit for the manufacturing/Sudesh loan. That's how manufacturing loans work.  Beyond that that they have to secure more financing to fund more manufacturing.  They're not going to pay for it themselves.  That financing will have a cost unlike the Sudesh loan which is essentially free.

[Razzie.P]

1 hour ago, MrBeefy said:

If I communicated with my wife how the CEO and company did, I'd be sleeping in the car under a pier waiting for her to deliver me divorce papers. ?

Wow.  She must really care about how they did if she's gonna do all that to you just for communicating with her.  

[MrBeefy]

10 minutes ago, Razzie.P said:

Wow.  She must really care about how they did if she's gonna do all that to you just for communicating with her.  

Lmao. I meant if told her one thing and continually changed it like they did over the years.

 

Their talking point of building trust was just that, talk. They had to use small YouTubers to try and spend news to make it sound good and specifically had meetings with them to have first hand knowledge on how to spin it. If things were good and great they wouldn't need to do that. The product has never been able to stand up for itself. It has constantly needed someone to bloviate about it because they can't show.

 

Then again, she might kick me out if I bought it at the current price. She'd probably tell me I should have bought her a Switch Lite as she was booting my butt out the door.

 

[MrBeefy]

36 minutes ago, mr_me said:

Where did the preorder money and the manufacturing loan go?  

It didn't go to manufacturing that's for sure.

 

They need money to fund the Founders and they don't have it. They also need to get the money for FCC certs too. I'd also maybe pay and English major some money to proofread their inserts to make sure they spell their company name correctly, but at least the last one wouldn't cost much.

 

I'm sure they are hoping that everyone will give up on the idea of getting their loans back and go to bankruptcy. I don't see how anyone would want to invest in this with such poor preorders and such debt.

[mr_me]

We know they ordered parts in 2020.  There's a dispute with their manufacturer over it.  How do you know they didn't order parts after their manufacturing loan in 2021?

[Rev]

1 hour ago, mr_me said:

We know they ordered parts in 2020.  There's a dispute with their manufacturer over it.  How do you know they didn't order parts after their manufacturing loan in 2021?

They actually did order posters and vip cards (or similar).   As far as actual console or controller parts, not sure. 

[Rev]

4 hours ago, 1980gamer said:

The real pricing issue(s)

Pandemic price creep/gauging is part, but not number 1.

 

Payback schedule on initial units sold.  $100 of each unit is paying back to1 person.  I am certain others fingers are in the pie beyond IE making a profit.

 

I think the person getting $100 per on the first X units sold would be better served to take $50 or $25  per unit over 2x or 4x the number of units.

 

As far as waiting goes...  That's life.  I have more games than I have time for now.  Granted, I want my Amico!  I have actually played it and it is awesome.

 

Getting people together for game night is fun and I think Amico will add to the fun.

 

Yep, just waiting. Maybe 2022 will be the year. 6 months left. 
 

If/when it does ship and is publicly available at a decent price, I will pick up one or two. ??

[+cmart604]

Can this thread be moved from the Intellivision forums to the modern consoles forum as it has absolutely nothing to do with the original Intellivision and is just a rehash of a bunch of stuff that we already know. Time to move on kids. 

[+GoldLeader]

Did we assume they had some IPs and made some money for the Evercade Intellivision releases?   Maybe they could use some of that for refunds!   Just throwing it out there...

[roots.genoa]

But they have to pay their 6-figure salaries first! Seriously, maybe if they had waited to get their final prototype before setting a company with 4 offices, they wouldn't be in that situation now. But what do I know? I'm no industry legend™️ with the Guinness™️ world record for the biggest amount of Guinness™️ world records. ?

Now I must let you guys, I'm going to attend a ceremony for the AtariAge posting awards since I'm nominated in the "most cringe-inducing post from a non-native English speaker" category. ?

[MrBeefy]

8 hours ago, GoldLeader said:

Did we assume they had some IPs and made some money for the Evercade Intellivision releases?   Maybe they could use some of that for refunds!   Just throwing it out there...

I really think this will be how they use any licensing. Licensing their product won't get them enough to manufacture.

 

9 hours ago, Rev said:

They actually did order posters and vip cards (or similar).   As far as actual console or controller parts, not sure. 

And Founders patches that has 2021 on it. Don't forget those! It would be nice if they had taken the manufacturing loan and actually, um manufactured something with it.

 

Speaking of, we should hopefully be seeing some soon.  They were planning to scrounge some together to give out to people. So there might be around 25 to 50 that make it into the wild. What do you think the likelyhood of that is?

[Flojomojo]

10 hours ago, cmart604 said:

Can this thread be moved from the Intellivision forums to the modern consoles forum as it has absolutely nothing to do with the original Intellivision and is just a rehash of a bunch of stuff that we already know. Time to move on kids. 

Cmart, that’s EXACTLY how I felt when you guys brought talk about this flimflam console into the Intellivisionaries podcast!

 

Remember when you did 40 minutes on this brain fart in the intellivisionaries podcast?

http://intellivisionaries.com/episode-37-amico-portland-and-baum-oh-my/
 

Or this one

http://intellivisionaries.com/special-edition-7-a-new-console/

 

[digdugnate]

Man, someone bring some aloe into this thread.  ?

[Rev]

12 minutes ago, digdugnate said:

Man, someone bring some aloe into this thread.  ?

ok.   
 

wake me up when its over

 

 

[mr_me]

1 hour ago, MrBeefy said:

I really think this will be how they use any licensing. Licensing their product won't get them enough to manufacture.

 

And Founders patches that has 2021 on it. Don't forget those! It would be nice if they had taken the manufacturing loan and actually, um manufactured something with it.

 

Speaking of, we should hopefully be seeing some soon.  They were planning to scrounge some together to give out to people. So there might be around 25 to 50 that make it into the wild. What do you think the likelyhood of that is?

Manufacturing will require financing, the manufacturing loan they got at end of 2021 is more than enough to produce the founders editions.  They might be waiting for parts, and from what they said, they might wait until they have a plan in place to produce the higher volume required for retailer units.  The manufacturing loan is interest free so they can wait.

 

They've been producing Amicos in their office for years, ie. developer units.  It's not clear if the test production run they are talking about has anything to do with manufacturing.  Producing a small number, would only cost them a very small fraction of the manufacturing loan.

 

How much can licensing classic Intellivision games bring in?  Knowing how many Evercade Intellivision collections sold would give you an idea.  Not a solution for manufacturing but not insignificant either now that they've scaled back operations.  

 

[youxia]

8 minutes ago, Rev said:

wake me up when its over

Shouldn't be long now, methinks. Surprised it lasted 5 pages anyway, since it really is...

 

[MrBeefy]

4 minutes ago, mr_me said:

Manufacturing will require financing, the manufacturing loan they got at end of 2021 is more than enough to produce the founders editions.  They might be waiting for parts, and from what they said, they might wait until they have a plan in place to produce the higher volume required for retailer units.  The manufacturing loan is interest free so they can wait.

 

They've been producing Amicos in their office for years, ie. developer units.  It's not clear if the test production run they are talking about has anything to do with manufacturing.  Producing a small number, would only cost them a very small fraction of the manufacturing loan.

 

How much can licensing classic Intellivision games bring in?  Knowing how many Evercade Intellivision collections sold would give you an idea.  Not a solution for manufacturing but not insignificant either now that they've scaled back operations.  

 

They themselves said they hope licensing will make money to help make it a reality.

 

Also you are contradicting yourself. They bought parts with manufacturing loan, now its they may be waiting for parts.

 

Truth is if they had the money to manufacture they would have already done it. As they aren't manufacturing they don't. Any loan money they received has been blown on not manufacturing. You do your BOM before you manufacture. ?

 

I think @Rev should have an Amico charity tip jar at PRGE. All proceeds can go to Sudesh since that is probably the biggest hiccup in getting it made. Investing into IE knowing you are basically just paying off loans is a poor investment choice.

[MrBeefy]

7 minutes ago, youxia said:

Shouldn't be long now, methinks. Surprised it lasted 5 pages anyway, since it really is...

 

For the spirit of the subject can we change it to beating a Shark Shark?

[mr_me]

7 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

They themselves said they hope licensing will make money to help make it a reality.

 

Also you are contradicting yourself. They bought parts with manufacturing loan, now its they may be waiting for parts.

 

Truth is if they had the money to manufacture they would have already done it. As they aren't manufacturing they don't. Any loan money they received has been blown on not manufacturing. You do your BOM before you manufacture. ?

What's the contradiction?  You order parts and then wait for them to arrive.  We've been hearing about long lead times for delivery, as much as twelve months.

 

This is what they said, "These licensing deals will help fund continued development of Amico."  There's money there that can help pay for an engineer or programmer.  Manufacturing is at a different level of funding.

[+cmart604]

3 hours ago, Flojomojo said:

Cmart, that’s EXACTLY how I felt when you guys brought talk about this flimflam console into the Intellivisionaries podcast!

 

 

Remember when you did 40 minutes on this brain fart in the intellivisionaries podcast?

http://intellivisionaries.com/episode-37-amico-portland-and-baum-oh-my/
 

Or this one

http://intellivisionaries.com/special-edition-7-a-new-console/

 

Fair comment. Back then we were genuinely excited about the upcoming console and the ability to play the old Inty games and some new upgraded versions as well. We often talk about stuff we like on the podcast. 

[MrBeefy]

On 6/26/2022 at 11:47 AM, cmart604 said:

Fair comment. Back then we were genuinely excited about the upcoming console and the ability to play the old Inty games and some new upgraded versions as well. We often talk about stuff we like on the podcast. 

Are you no longer excited?

 

I always thought it would be cool if they made deals with homebrewers to get the games on that platform.

 

Kind of like how I think it would be cool of the VCS to do the same thing, or there be an AtariAge themed Evercade cart with various homebrews on it.