ColecoJoe Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 15 minutes ago, Razzie.P said: I don't think so. I think all the evidence posted for that has been Tommy flapping his yap about how other companies should have money in escrow, but I've not seen anyone post evidence of them saying that golden rule applied to them, too. yeah it was something tommy posted about Gamestop pre-orders so the assumption was made that IE pre-orders must also be in escrow 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_B Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 Nobody had any trouble getting refunds from GameStop though, so I'd guess that that's moot. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaterooze_ink Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 Escrow or not is irrelevant (I wouldn't expect them to be in actual escrow, because that means held by a third party), they were repeatedly stated to be guaranteed refundable at any time, and Phil Adam said the deposits were completely "safe" earlier this year. They made those promises, and they chose not to honor them. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveTheColecoDude Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 3 minutes ago, gaterooze_ink said: Escrow or not is irrelevant (I wouldn't expect them to be in actual escrow, because that means held by a third party), they were repeatedly stated to be guaranteed refundable at any time, and Phil Adam said the deposits were completely "safe" earlier this year. They made those promises, and they chose not to honor them. At that time he also said that the prices were going up so encouraged those that already had pre-orders to keep them. No doubt a few people hesitated to ask for a refund after he said that and are now out of luck. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseystyle Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 8 minutes ago, SteveTheColecoDude said: At that time he also said that the prices were going up so encouraged those that already had pre-orders to keep them. No doubt a few people hesitated to ask for a refund after he said that and are now out of luck. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveTheColecoDude Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 5 minutes ago, jerseystyle said: Enough about cornhole. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBeefy Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 4 hours ago, GoldLeader said: Right on the Money!! This comment made me laugh. (I hope ya don't mind I responded to the below question since I'd just seen it Try this: 15:39 Thanks unfortunately I watched the cornhole demo again because of it. I can't believe they messed up what should have been THE game. 3 hours ago, Rev said: Maybe its Stockholm's Syndrome. That's for being held hostage which they are not. The only thing being held hostage are the refunds. What you are thinking of is something else. 2 hours ago, Tavi said: I have spent 100$ on worse things then a FE reservation. I also still have hopes that it will eventually release. I am still waiting on Space Venture as well. Now that is a long wait! So you are saying you are really good at backing companies/products that aren't competently ran or made? You can try to rationalize it however you want, but IE was incompetent and lied. Doesn't matter if $1, $100, or $1.5 million. 29 minutes ago, gaterooze_ink said: Escrow or not is irrelevant (I wouldn't expect them to be in actual escrow, because that means held by a third party), they were repeatedly stated to be guaranteed refundable at any time, and Phil Adam said the deposits were completely "safe" earlier this year. They made those promises, and they chose not to honor them. Tommy also would say things like the FE were a great deal. It was a way to slow the refund requests by using FOMO tactics. Now that they aren't giving refunds after claiming they were, only the truly deluded think it isn't a scam. They lied and took money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 17 minutes ago, MrBeefy said: Thanks unfortunately I watched the cornhole demo again because of it. I can't believe they messed up what should have been THE game. That's for being held hostage which they are not. The only thing being held hostage are the refunds. What you are thinking of is something else. One of many definitions for the syndrome: Quote condition that causes hostages to develop a psychological alliance with their captors as a survival strategy during captivity. Quote psychological response wherein a captive begins to identify closely with his or her captors, as well as with their agenda and demands. Substitute "fans" for hostages or captives etc. and you can see a mild fit. #6 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 52 minutes ago, gaterooze_ink said: Escrow or not is irrelevant (I wouldn't expect them to be in actual escrow, because that means held by a third party), they were repeatedly stated to be guaranteed refundable at any time, and Phil Adam said the deposits were completely "safe" earlier this year. They made those promises, and they chose not to honor them. There's no guarantees with a startup company. The company going out of business owing money is a real risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CurlyQ Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 (edited) 23 hours ago, Flojomojo said: I liked the ‘shops where it was ambiguous where you stood, where they could either be loving or mocking, depending how one looked at it. What would you call this one? Loving or mocking? Edited July 27, 2022 by CurlyQ . 4 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBeefy Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 33 minutes ago, number6 said: One of many definitions for the syndrome: Substitute "fans" for hostages or captives etc. and you can see a mild fit. #6 Yeah but it really doesn't fit. A cult of personality would really be more fitting than Stockholm if you want to look at it Psycholigically and Sociologically. The fans were always willingly fans so that rules out Stockholm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaterooze_ink Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 36 minutes ago, mr_me said: There's no guarantees with a startup company. The company going out of business owing money is a real risk. Okay, so when the CEO of the company said: Quote a hundred percent refundable at any time, because I don't want you to think we're like, you know, taking your money or using your money, you get it back whenever you want that was a lie? As Tommy himself said, that money was the customer's money, it wasn't a case of "owing money" and it being at "risk", by Tommy's own definition it was stealing money. Even the new CEO said it was "safe", which by definition means not at "risk". So was he lying too? 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_B Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 I guess Tommy and Phil meant that it was for them. When not even the customers can take it back from them, it's pretty "safe." ? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1980gamer Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 2 hours ago, gaterooze_ink said: Since mid-2020, well into the pandemic, they have raised over $11m from investment crowdfunding, so "had no income", while technically correct, is entirely beside the point. With $11m funding coming in *after* the pandemic was in full swing, why couldn't they guarantee the $540k of customer deposits like they repeatedly said they would? The excuse-making just encourages continued bad behavior. Not honoring deposits is not okay for any reason. I think the 11 Million had allocation clauses. X dollars reached when phase X, Y and Z are reached. How much was releases? This has been a LONG saga and I don't really feel like looking for this info right now. It may have been in a video. Text is easy to find, phrases in a video... I don't know how to do that? Anyway. I put my $100 on the table, the wheel is spinning and the ball has been launched. Just waiting to see where it lands! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBeefy Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 51 minutes ago, gaterooze_ink said: Okay, so when the CEO of the company said: that was a lie? As Tommy himself said, that money was the customer's money, it wasn't a case of "owing money" and it being at "risk", by Tommy's own definition it was stealing money. Even the new CEO said it was "safe", which by definition means not at "risk". So was he lying too? Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBeefy Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 29 minutes ago, Matt_B said: I guess Tommy and Phil meant that it was for them. When not even the customers can take it back from them, it's pretty "safe." ? Well it did go to Tommy's account right? I think someone said it went to a personal email and not a company one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaterooze_ink Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 13 minutes ago, 1980gamer said: I think the 11 Million had allocation clauses. X dollars reached when phase X, Y and Z are reached. How much was releases? This has been a LONG saga and I don't really feel like looking for this info right now. It may have been in a video. Text is easy to find, phrases in a video... I don't know how to do that? Anyway. I put my $100 on the table, the wheel is spinning and the ball has been launched. Just waiting to see where it lands! According to Republic's recent SEC filing, they only have about $500k left unallocated. We know from Intellivision's 2020 accounts that almost $6m had already been allocated by the end of 2020. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPilz Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, mr_me said: There's no guarantees with a startup company. The company going out of business owing money is a real risk. Those risks were not conveyed well in all of the times we heard that Intellivision was not a crowdfunding effort, that Intellivision was different than a startup because they weren't asking for money from consumers before they had a product. Right now there are at least three spots on the website that still convey a money back guarantee including the pre-order and VIP FAQ sections, as well as their Terms of Use. 2 hours ago, SteveTheColecoDude said: At that time he also said that the prices were going up so encouraged those that already had pre-orders to keep them. He also encouraged others to put their name on the list to get in line. It was immediately following that live-stream that I did sign-up and did pay the $100 down, as we were weeks away from what was to be the announcement of a release date. Once again I reiterate that the lack of communication does not help their image or the frustration of supporters. Especially when we know they do chat and correspond with Youtubers and similar even providing them apparent updates on their progress although I wouldn't put any weight into that at this point. Edited July 28, 2022 by MattPilz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1980gamer Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 8 minutes ago, MattPilz said: Once again I reiterate that the lack of communication does not help their image or the frustration of supporters. Especially when we know they do chat and correspond with Youtubers and similar even providing them apparent updates on their progress although I wouldn't put any weight into that at this point. I think until it rolls off the line... Silence is golden. No matter what they say, no one will believe them anyway. When they are boxed and ready to ship.. You should hear from them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cebus Capucinis Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 Honestly I think that's what Phil's role really is. To just get the company to shut up and deliver on what it can while it can. Of course the ship is rapidly sinking if not already sunk, but the sea change in leadership likely came with a "please lockdown PR and control the narrative until we can provide proof" directive. That's just my personal conjecture though. I don't criticize them for it, it's probably wise to shut the yap at this point and try to salvage. Of course, with that comes certain requisite disclosures, which is where we see the real condition of the organization. (SEC filings, etc.). But I think the playbook is now for them to shut up to the extent they can control the message. Frankly I think it just goes to show how much damage the former CEO did to what goodwill the company had. From "goodwill" to Goodwill (if not straight in the flaming dumpster). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_B Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 32 minutes ago, 1980gamer said: I think until it rolls off the line... Silence is golden. No matter what they say, no one will believe them anyway. When they are boxed and ready to ship.. You should hear from them. If they'd kept that stance from day one, I'd heartily agree with it. Unfortunately, they set multiple release dates and blew past them all without proper explanation, and took people's money that they won't refund. They've waived their right to silence. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CurlyQ Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 @Cebus Capucinis Every time I see your avatar it makes me sad. I miss John Candy. My uncle used to live on the same street. 3 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1980gamer Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, Matt_B said: If they'd kept that stance from day one, I'd heartily agree with it. Unfortunately, they set multiple release dates and blew past them all without proper explanation, and took people's money that they won't refund. They've waived their right to silence. So if you go east when you should have gone west, you should keep going east? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cebus Capucinis Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 4 minutes ago, CurlyQ said: @Cebus Capucinis Every time I see your avatar it makes me sad. I miss John Candy. My uncle used to live on the same street. Me too. Well, not the same street part. The man was truly a treasure. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_B Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 6 minutes ago, 1980gamer said: So if you go east when you should have gone west, you should keep going east? That's a pretty bad analogy. In the case of Intellivision, it's more like reversing their car East into a shop window, grabbing the contents and speeding off to the West. Still, if they want to pursue a 'no news is good news' strategy from now on, I'd think that they need to: 1. Start honoring refunds promptly. 2. Make a definitive statement that the console will not be arriving any time this year. After that, we shouldn't hear anything until either: 1. They declare bankruptcy, or 2. The FCC certification is completed, the parts are on order and manufacturing is lined up. Does that sound fair enough? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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