number6 Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Rev said: Does Koch Media still have retail distribution rights? Is this part of the alleged secured 100,000 retail units? http://thegg.net/press-releases/koch-media-has-just-secured-exclusive-distribution-rights-for-the-intellivision-amico-product-portfolio/ side note, those are some weird ads ? Go back a few pages. I posted Koch listing Finnigan Fox with a date. The 2nd link I offered (non-translated) also showed some merch. This post #6 Edited July 28, 2022 by number6 Added link 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColecoJoe Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 7 minutes ago, Rev said: side note, those are some weird ads ? what do expect from Nintendo? 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPilz Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) 12 hours ago, mr_me said: Under the new CEO, the company recognises that they owe deposit refund requests, but warned it will take time. That's not the picture he painted as of February 10, 2022. On NLG's show he reiterated that anyone who wants their deposit back could get it at any time, while Mullis encouraged people to keep their pre-orders in place based on that statement. At 1:01:00 here. --- Mullis: Let's get this out, too. For whatever reason, if any of the risk disclosure stuff were to come true, right, people that pre-ordered could still get their deposit back correct? At any time. Right? Phil (Intellivision CEO): Yes. Mullis: Okay. So, if you put down $100 and you're thinking about canceling your founder's pre-order because you don't think it's coming out, and guys I totally get that...Obviously these guys here understand that too and that's why they're working hard to get the system out. I don't see a reason to cancel your pre-order if you know at any point you can get your deposit back. Hold off. Phil (Intellivision CEO): I will tell you $100 probably means more to some than others. So, I hate to sit there and take the other side but in reality I don't begrudge somebody. I think, they know what they're personal needs are why should that piss me off or whatever? I get it. There's people waiting to take those units. Right now we have the waiting list. It'll create an opportunity for a few more people... --- It cannot be any clearer. Nobody in that 2+ hour stream implied that those who want refunds would need to hold off until they made new revenue to try and pay them back. And it featured both John and Phil, senior staff and CEO. 12 hours ago, mr_me said: And it's not a kickstarter where you risk the entire purchase price rather than a partial deposit as with Amico preorders That is distorting their actual representation of why they insisted for many years this was not a crowdfunding effort. They said that under the guise that any deposits were fully refundable at any time no questions asked. So unlike a crowdfunded investment it was presented as a zero risk down-payment. 12 hours ago, mr_me said: I'm not sure which youtuber getting updates you're referring to. DJC keeps in touch with Phil and last week had quite a lot to say based on their conversations. Ultimately concluding "things are gonna be very good within the next month or so. I think everybody's gonna be pleasantly surprised." And this quote from their last public statement is too vague to interpret any possible way. "a portion" of "all new funding" is meaningless as a statistic on both sides. Putting one penny toward refunds for every $1,000 of new revenue would still qualify given that statement and even that is dependent on them actually getting new revenue somehow. Quote We will allocate a portion of all new funding and staff time to winding down the refund queue Edited July 28, 2022 by MattPilz 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseystyle Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 18 minutes ago, number6 said: There will always be a segment saying "bad concept from the getgo". But the pro/anti aspect netwide was surely fueled by this and could have been lessened with a different "face". Who here would argue that? To be clear, the project itself is a different topic. I'm just saying the issue got -compounded- through the choice of how to communicate through the interactive ceo. #6 You’re 100% correct. The proof? Playdate. They let the concept speak for itself, good or bad, and didn’t get upset when a Youtuber with 50 subscribers asked a question. And look- they already sold and shipped their first 20k units (and I believe they’ve sold another 50k). Perfect example of how important management is, when done with competence. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 8 minutes ago, MattPilz said: DJC keeps in touch with Phil and last week had quite a lot to say based on their conversations. Ultimately concluding "things are gonna be very good within the next month or so. I think everybody's gonna be pleasantly surprised." Listen to what he says later where he says something entirely different. Watching the looks on faces is interesting during all this. #6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 11 minutes ago, MattPilz said: That's not the picture he painted as of February 10, 2022. On NLG's show he reiterated that anyone who wants their deposit back could get it at any time, while Mullis encouraged people to keep their pre-orders in place based on that statement. At 1:01:00 here. --- Mullis: Let's get this out, too. For whatever reason, if any of the risk disclosure stuff were to come true, right, people that pre-ordered could still get their deposit back correct? At any time. Right? Phil (Intellivision CEO): Yes. Mullis: Okay. So, if you put down $100 and you're thinking about canceling your founder's pre-order because you don't think it's coming out, and guys I totally get that...Obviously these guys here understand that too and that's why they're working hard to get the system out. I don't see a reason to cancel your pre-order if you know at any point you can get your deposit back. Hold off. Phil (Intellivision CEO): I will tell you $100 probably means more to some than others. So, I hate to sit there and take the other side but in reality I don't begrudge somebody. I think, they know what they're personal needs are why should that piss me off or whatever? I get it. There's people waiting to take those units. Right now we have the waiting list. It'll create an opportunity for a few more people... --- It cannot be any clearer. Nobody in that 2+ hour stream implied that those who want refunds would need to hold off until they made new revenue to try and pay them back. And it featured both John and Phil, senior staff and CEO. That is distorting their actual representation of why they insisted for many years this was not a crowdfunding effort. They said that under the guise that any deposits were fully refundable at any time no questions asked. So unlike a crowdfunded investment it was presented as a zero risk down-payment. DJC keeps in touch with Phil and last week had quite a lot to say based on their conversations. Ultimately concluding "things are gonna be very good within the next month or so. I think everybody's gonna be pleasantly surprised." And this quote from their last public statement is too vague to interpret any possible way. "a portion" of "all new funding" is meaningless as a statistic on both sides. Putting one penny toward refunds for every $1,000 of new revenue would still qualify given that statement and even that is dependent on them actually getting new revenue somehow. How dare you use actual quotes and logic! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 4 minutes ago, jerseystyle said: You’re 100% correct. The proof? Playdate. They let the concept speak for itself, good or bad, and didn’t get upset when a Youtuber with 50 subscribers asked a question. And look- they already sold and shipped their first 20k units (and I believe they’ve sold another 50k). Perfect example of how important management is, when done with competence. Curious off-topic thought. No one mentions TheA500 with a successful release during the same time period. I firmly believe all who succeeded during the heart of the pandemic faced the question "do we do what we -want- to do?" or "do we do what we -can- do?" I am not convinced Intellivision graduated beyond the "no compromise" dream to focus fully on what they -could- do, until it was far too late. #6 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SegaSnatcher Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 26 minutes ago, MattPilz said: DJC keeps in touch with Phil and last week had quite a lot to say based on their conversations. Ultimately concluding "things are gonna be very good within the next month or so. I think everybody's gonna be pleasantly surprised." At this point I'm convinced that anyone who is still super positive about Amico are simply investors who don't want to see their money flushed down the toilet. Either that or they are in complete denial of what has been going on. It makes absolutely no sense to not express the least bit of criticism at this point even if you are "Mr. Positive". It's just disingenuous to me. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crade Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 44 minutes ago, Rev said: side note, those are some weird ads ? Their ads are custom tailored to viewer 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) 47 minutes ago, MattPilz said: ... That is distorting their actual representation of why they insisted for many years this was not a crowdfunding effort. They said that under the guise that any deposits were fully refundable at any time no questions asked. So unlike a crowdfunded investment it was presented as a zero risk down-payment. ... The no crowdfunding has nothing to do with risk. In fact a kickstarter could be less risky because a successful kickstarter should generate all the funds needed to manufacture the product. The no crowdfunding was to tell people you don't have to put money down in advance to get an Amico. And if they aren't funding by customers paying full in advance than it leaves questions about how they're going to fund it. I don't know what negotiations they had in the works when the CEO made those comments earlier in the year, but things didn't go as planned and they made drastic changes with the company. Maybe he should have said if the company goes out of business there won't be refunds. As it is, I don't disagree with you, they owe refunds to those that asked, the sooner the better. And definitely a response to requests. But nothing they say eliminates risk. There are online banks here popping up, only a certain amount is government guaranteed, everything over that is at risk. Of course, they say you have access to your money anytime, free unlimited transactions. Doesn't mean your money is not at risk. I don't think I've heard DJC say anything we didn't already know. I don't know what 'things are going to be pretty good' means. It could just mean we're going to see some test units out like the company said there would be. Edited July 28, 2022 by mr_me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPilz Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) 41 minutes ago, mr_me said: The no crowdfunding has nothing to do with risk. According to Tommy it had everything to do with risk. This is why he was opposed to the idea of Amico being lumped in with Atari VCS or other crowdfunded efforts. Tommy Tallarico: Not really a risk if it's 100% refundable and only a small portion of the total... In "crowdfunding" projects at the end of the 30 day period 100% of the money is collected before the project really even starts. We are unique in so many ways and are doing very unique things in very different ways. . . We've actually secured over $150M already for pipeline manufacturing. Part of the reason I was in China last month. Tommy Tallarico: p.s. It's not crowdfunding. Crowdfunding is taking 100% of someone's money up front before they even start the project. Atari VCS is a perfect example of this. 41 minutes ago, mr_me said: I don't know what negotiations they had in the works when the CEO made those comments earlier in the year There is nothing that the longtime chief revenue officer turned CEO wouldn't had known by mid-Feb 2022 that he did weeks later. You previously attributed all the refund promises to Tommy but there is visual proof the new CEO continued the same assurances. It was from these assurances and the new CEO's suggestion those interested get on the founder's edition list that I did, and put money down. This was the same stream that Phil implied they were committed to announce a release date by the end of that month. 41 minutes ago, mr_me said: As it is, I don't disagree with you You'd save a few letters by just saying "I agree with you." ? Quote I don't think I've heard DJC say anything we didn't already know. Well if it's taken at face value DJC says they didn't need their offices because the system is already done, they "are doing well and working hard" with an announcement to come soon. But my bigger point is that staff at Intellivision do correspond to some, but didn't even reply to requests for refunds to acknowledge receipt of the request. Edited July 28, 2022 by MattPilz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) There's nothing they say that would eliminate risk. Refunds on deposits help reduce risk, some organisations have non refundable deposits, some only refund 85%, some require full prepayment. The company running into financial trouble and going out of business is a real risk, no matter what. With Kickstarter you have to have a working prototype. Others like indiegogo, for example, you don't and are more risky. I wonder what happened to that $150M manufacturing line of credit financing. Did it expire? They obviously don't have it anymore. When DJC said the system is done, was he saying the company is saying the system is done. The company has already shared directly, a while ago, that the hardware is done. I don't doubt he communicates with people there, don't know if there's anything relevant. If a company wants to reveal information through the media, internet writer, or a youtuber, I'd be happy to hear some solid news no matter how it comes. Again, they need to respond to refund requests, no excuse for that. And the sooner they issue those refunds the better. Edited July 28, 2022 by mr_me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1980gamer Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 1 hour ago, MattPilz said: Well if it's taken at face value DJC says they didn't need their offices because the system is already done, they "are doing well and working hard" with an announcement to come soon. But my bigger point is that staff at Intellivision do correspond to some, but didn't even reply to requests for refunds to acknowledge receipt of the request. I am betting customer service didn't make the cut. Some engineers and developers are absolutely needed. I don't necessarily agree with that thinking, But I have lived through downsizing.... And Some of the key ( face of the company and yet smaller salaries ) are first to go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBeefy Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 15 minutes ago, lawdawg710 said: ooof lol what a mess!!! Pretty unfortunate that all of this has played out the way it has. I was of the opinion that this would see the light of day and the new VCS would be the vaporware.......how very wrong I was!! Many felt similarly. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBeefy Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 4 hours ago, MarioMan88 said: Sad ending for Intellivisions legacy ? Explore the world of Intv homebrews. That will leave a better image for you. General gaming community? Yeah Intellivision will now be synonymous with scam dumpster fire now. 4 hours ago, Rev said: In case someone needs glasses. I think it might be more a basic understanding of words and their meaning. 3 hours ago, number6 said: I do not disagree with your take at all. I hope you realize most of what I post simply illustrates what "he" says vs an alternative that might have gone over better if there had been an actual public relations officer. #6 Or he shouldn't have been "writing checks his butt couldn't cash." Which unfortunately led to them not being able to write checks for people to cash. 3 hours ago, number6 said: There will always be a segment saying "bad concept from the getgo". But the pro/anti aspect netwide was surely fueled by this and could have been lessened with a different "face". Who here would argue that? To be clear, the project itself is a different topic. I'm just saying the issue got -compounded- through the choice of how to communicate through the interactive ceo. #6 Oh it was totally intentional to create an us vs them mentality. There really is no us and them. There is a company taking money and making claims. It is for them to make good on that not consumers and possible consumers. It was all done as a manipulation technique to whip up a cult of personality. Enemies like Pat and Ian were created for the sole purpose of ignoring the reality of what was going on. Some people are still buying into it. There is nothing Pat and Ian said or could say, that would negatively affect the development and release. It was IE's own impotence that did that. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+GoldLeader Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 12 minutes ago, MrBeefy said: Explore the world of Intv homebrews. That will leave a better image for you. General gaming community? Yeah Intellivision will now be synonymous with scam dumpster fire now. Good advice! Now as far as the tarnishing of the name; I think Old School Intellivision fans will now have to make a distinction between New Intellivision and Old Intellivision...Just like Old School Atari fans...And Old School Coleco fans... (Sucks this keeps happening)... 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roots.genoa Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 8 hours ago, MrBeefy said: The internet never forgets. Word of honor..... what a joke. Word of BS is more like it. Enjoy the clip! https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxjr0sm8aIkWYY4mAWgi0aMKiI_AVnhqIi Funnily he said that as an example of a difference between IE and "the big 3". But when did "the big 3" use crowdfunding again? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBeefy Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) 40 minutes ago, roots.genoa said: Funnily he said that as an example of a difference between IE and "the big 3". But when did "the big 3" use crowdfunding again? Ouya, Chameleon, Atari VCS Edited July 28, 2022 by MrBeefy All of which turned out to not be as bad as Amico. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBeefy Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 1 hour ago, GoldLeader said: Good advice! Now as far as the tarnishing of the name; I think Old School Intellivision fans will now have to make a distinction between New Intellivision and Old Intellivision...Just like Old School Atari fans...And Old School Coleco fans... (Sucks this keeps happening)... Well it would stop happening to a degree if people would not strictly get hyped up over a name. If you don't want a company to shit all over a name you care about stop giving them money strictly on the name alone. Make them earn your money. Just giving your money over because of the name just makes it where someone else will come down the line and Tallarico it up. I feel the same way about games. Odds are there are games similar to the ones you use to know, but just have a different name. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaterooze_ink Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 7 hours ago, Rev said: Gaterooze. All those Amico game clones you made in a day or so. Where is a link or a place to play them? Realistically for the average Amico game, say shark shark or skiing, how long should it of taken them to make them and how many people for the quality they are? We keep hearing that the “games are not done”. But yet you whipped up playable clones of them in a day. How is it possible? Well, mine were just quick prototypes using stock assets and only a single level, so it's not really fair to compare. Although given the Amico games only had about 10-20 simple levels, and in the case of Astrosmash and Shark! Shark! essentially being single-screen, I'd estimate about 3-4 months (plus some extra time for QA & localization) to do those to the same level for an experienced designer/coder plus ~3 freelancers, albeit working flat-out without interruption. Skiing could be a little longer (maybe an extra month or so, hard to tell as I haven't seen as much of it) since the levels are more involved. Note that I am not disparaging the creators of those games at all (I think they all did a good job and are far better developers than me!), I suspect the lengthy time was due to the incomplete system firmware/OS (as per the Back Talk Party developer's interview), Tommy's insistence of personal involvement, and Intellivision's QA being stretched over so many games and with turnaround delays due to the first two reasons I stated, creating a huge bottleneck where developers were just waiting around most of the time. Anyway, here are the "parody" games: Hatersmash Hater! Hater! Hater Piste (skiing) [a minigame based on a CUPodcast imaginary game title] Hans's 10 Levels Of Government Funding 2 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaterooze_ink Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 3 hours ago, mr_me said: I wonder what happened to that $150M manufacturing line of credit financing. Did it expire? They obviously don't have it anymore. I believe that was with Ark, who is no longer their manufacturer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, GoldLeader said: Good advice! Now as far as the tarnishing of the name; I think Old School Intellivision fans will now have to make a distinction between New Intellivision and Old Intellivision...Just like Old School Atari fans...And Old School Coleco fans... (Sucks this keeps happening)... It's not hard to make the distinction. The old Intellivision is a console made by Mattel Electronics, the new Intellivision is a company whose console is the Amico. 30 minutes ago, gaterooze_ink said: I believe that was with Ark, who is no longer their manufacturer. I remember something about the manufacturing line of credit being backed by the Bavarian Ministry of something. (Separate from the million they got for game software development) 1 hour ago, MrBeefy said: Well it would stop happening to a degree if people would not strictly get hyped up over a name. If you don't want a company to shit all over a name you care about stop giving them money strictly on the name alone. Make them earn your money. Just giving your money over because of the name just makes it where someone else will come down the line and Tallarico it up. I feel the same way about games. Odds are there are games similar to the ones you use to know, but just have a different name. I doubt most Republic/Fig investors care about the name, same goes for most of the founding partners and directors who invested in it. Two of them for sure care very much about it. Edited July 28, 2022 by mr_me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBeefy Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 4 minutes ago, gaterooze_ink said: I believe that was with Ark, who is no longer their manufacturer. Needed to do crowdfunding to recoup the money they just gave away to them. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_B Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 5 hours ago, number6 said: Curious off-topic thought. No one mentions TheA500 with a successful release during the same time period. I firmly believe all who succeeded during the heart of the pandemic faced the question "do we do what we -want- to do?" or "do we do what we -can- do?" I am not convinced Intellivision graduated beyond the "no compromise" dream to focus fully on what they -could- do, until it was far too late. The A500 Mini is also the second console from RGL during the pandemic. They also gave us TheVIC20, which was announced just after the launch of the Amico and delivered around six months later. Still, those guys obviously know what they're doing, so it's a bit unfair to compare them with the Amico. ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CurlyQ Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 On 7/27/2022 at 5:56 AM, roots.genoa said: I just hope you were not responsible for that 'montage': I'll take credit for the Shifty Eyed Dealer artwork but that particular image is not my handiwork. Most of the box art t-shirt image scans were of suspect quality. The project was more of a restoration/refurbishing of the original art. You'll notice that the text "Mattel Electronics" was removed citing licensing infringement. I wanted to create a George Plimpton shirt but that would have required permission from his estate which may have proven difficult to procure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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