Seriously clever 8 bit

[Anthony]

The PCBridge Project

 

This clever fellow has fitted ISA PC cards to his 8 bit Atari. Very interesting but could strain my soldering skills

 

cutter

[mos6507]

Pretty cool. Too bad it didn't come out in the mid 80s.

[Gunstar]

It all sounds very interesting, but there is one major flaw: What about software to support the cards? I'm not talking about OS drivers, but what could I do with a hercules graphics card if I have no software on the Atari to take advantage of it? The things that these PCB's can do, like emulation of a 1050 and transfering (importing) .atr and.xfd files can all be done with the SIO2PC and A.P.E software, including using the modem, printer, and access to all the PC's drives. So what is the point? It's like the Diamond GOS system released for the 8-bit's back in the day, it was great to have a windows type desktop, but aside from the terrible word processor and graphics package that came with it, there was no software to take advantage and it was basically useless. New hardware without software to support it is useless. Any new games coming out to take advantage of the Hercules card? NO. What do I need 3 printer ports for? It all just seems a waste of time to me...

[Tempest]

The man has a point...

 

Tempest

[mos6507]

>>

New hardware without software to support it is useless. Any new games coming out to take advantage of the Hercules card? NO. What do I need 3 printer ports for? It all just seems a waste of time to me...

<<

 

Obsolute computers are mainly hacker's devices. In other words, roll your own software, period. That's why old game machines are really only useful anymore as game machines, because an old game doesn't age as badly as, let's say, an old non-WYSIWYG word processor.

 

It's far easier to build new hardware than it is to build a software base for the new hardware, that's for sure.

 

I think that's why a lot of old platforms are looking for ways to run LINUX, because it opens the door to porting lots of pre-existing applications. TCP/IP applications would be something interesting to see the 8-bit platforms be able to do.

 

There is a project called LUNIX for the C=64/128 and I think what the 8-bit needs more than anything else is a port of that.

[Gunstar]

Yep, that's about it too, I use my Atari and C64 for games. Although, being an artist, I still use the classic graphics programs as a medium for my work. It really makes me use my creative abilities to creat cool looking pictures on such limited graphic systems. Then there is the nostalgia of it too, just like the old games. Although I do think it would be fun to surf the web with my trusty 8-bit, just for fun and maybe check out some of those nostalgic BBS sites that are slowly popping up, but in the long run that would fade as a mere curiousity unlike my gaming and graphic endeavors...Lunix sounds mildly interesting too, but for me personally, that comes full circle back to the hardware thing, why try a Unix variant on such an antiquated machine? the old games and graphic programs are all I ever use my machine for anyway. If new software comes along with new content for the old puppies, that requires a Unix variant or makes use of these PCB hardware upgrades, I might try it out, but although I am a hardware hacker, I'm definately not a software hacker, so I wouldn't be writing any of my own programs. Therefore it's a passing interest for me and that's it. But all you software hackers out there, if you write some interesting software for these upgrades, then I might look into it further. Good hacking and more power to you!

[El Destructo]

I think this is a great enhancement for the old 8-bit. Like APE, it makes obsolete PC hardware, which is cheap and easily available , useful on your 8-bit.

 

"No software"? Didn't you read the part about the E: handler? That means any *existing* program that outputs plain text can now work in 80 columns! The screen handler is already there, and I'm sure a disk controller handler will be next. To paraphrase a saying: he's built it, and the drivers will come.

 

This thing can replace an XEP80 and, soon, Black Box / MIO in one shot. Add an Ethernet handler and pretty soon some of those Atari BBSes we loved could come back online, without any help from a PC! Those benefits justify this project for me.

 

I think it's really cool. C'mon, people, don't rain on his parade just because *you* wouldn't use it.

 

-El D.

[Curt Vendel]

El D,

 

I couldn't agree more, if someone has put the time/effort into such a task and it is in an enhancement then all the more power to them. This isn't just another dead end dongle, but instead a gateway for further expansion and a very nicely designed one at that. Kudos galore to the PcBridge project.

 

 

Curt

[Gunstar]

quote:

---

Originally posted by El Destructo:

I think this is a great enhancement for the old 8-bit. Like APE, it makes obsolete PC hardware, which is cheap and easily available , useful on your 8-bit.

 

"No software"? Didn't you read the part about the E: handler? That means any *existing* program that outputs plain text can now work in 80 columns! The screen handler is already there, and I'm sure a disk controller handler will be next. To paraphrase a saying: he's built it, and the drivers will come.

 

This thing can replace an XEP80 and, soon, Black Box / MIO in one shot. Add an Ethernet handler and pretty soon some of those Atari BBSes we loved could come back online, without any help from a PC! Those benefits justify this project for me.

 

I think it's really cool. C'mon, people, don't rain on his parade just because *you* wouldn't use it.

 

-El D.

---

 

reread my post, I SAID I wasn't talking about drivers&handlers but REAL applications or other software...my SIO2PC and APE software can do most of the stuff that can right now, with no further upgrade! I like the idea, but without real software, not just drivers(all that does is make the stuff compatible with the OS), it's useless to ME.

[Guy Ferrante]

The SIO2PC is a slow device, The MIO and Black Boex's are DMA devices and are super fast. That PBI to ISA bridge device is also DMA (Super Fast) My Atari 8bits are fine just the way they are. System config:

 

Master: 800XL 512k ram with Black box amd 320 SCSI Hard drive and multiplexer

 

Slave 1: 800XL 1088k ram, MIO and 160 meg MFM Hard drive and multiplexer.

 

Slave 2: 800XL 512k ram, MIO 30 meg MFM Hard drive and multiplexer and SIO2PC to old 386 clone.

 

As you can see I have a LOT of 8bit hardware online, and it dose everything I need it to do just fine. Everything can still be bought at CSS in NY.

 

The ISA project is great if you have a lot of fee time to make it and program all the drivers for it.

 

I also agree that the Diamond Cart was a waste of money, I bought 2 of them and sold them on ebay when better Desktops came along like Tom Hunts ATOS and the BOSS system.

 

Atari8Man

[Gunstar]

First off, you've got the setup I want!!! At least with one computer. I bought a 1meg upgrade years ago for my xe, but never was able to get the memory chips required, so it was never installed and I've since lost the upgrade board. Anyhow, what do you suggest for an xe memory upgrade and where can I get it. At least 256k or more please. I would also like to get a 1200xl, but do you know of any memory upgrades that will make it XE memory compatible?

 

On another note, I've never heard of the BOSS desktop OS, where can I get it? I downloaded the ATOS, but I can't seem to get it to work, I assumed it was an incomplete program demo or something. Yes I do have all the requirements for it (through my sio2pc)

 

I've also seen a graphic operating system calle S.A.M from germany or something, an English guy is selling them at his website, do you know anything about it?

 

Tell me all you know about them please. Including software, etc.

 

I'd love to get all the CSS stuff, but even after all these years, they are still to expensive for me to justify spending the money for such an old computer which is just a nostaligic hobby for me...he still want's the full price I remember being advertised in ANTIC mags years ago!!! You'd think they would be around collecting dust and that he'd just want to get rid of them...

 

The last question I have for you; What software are you using to get the computers "online" and how well does it work for the 8-bit to be on the net (obviously I expect a lot of restrictions)?

[Guy Ferrante]

Hi,

 

I put the system together in 1990, I order the Black Box and Multi-plexer From CSS in NY the price was a bit steep $350.00 There's nothing like hooking up the BB to the 8bit, you'll be jumping up and down at the speeds. The Multiplexer in a real Networking system, each slave can access what ever is on the master, each slave can chat (send packets) to each other in realtime. I ran Pro BBS multi-line with 2 phone lines and it was awesome, user would chat with each other. The Software that comes with the Mux is all you need.

 

My 1 meg XL has the Newell upgrade (hard as hell to do) I had a beta version with lots of bugs, but Wes Newell help me fix them. All my other XL are 512k rambo and more compatible with the XE's ANTIC mode that any other upgrade. You first need the 256k rambo or compatible then ad 1 decoder chip and 8 more ramchips. I also have 2 XE's one of them is 576k and the other is 320k. as you can see I hate stocked computers and must upgrade them rite away If you have an XE Bob Puff (CSS)has a 1 Meg upgrade (PD) but I would just do the 320k XE it rocks and is fully compatible with all the awesome polish demos that need extra ram, for the XL it 512k! it will run all the XE 320k demos.

 

The BOSS desktop can be found at www.atarixle.de Its also freeware and looks great! ATOS ROCKS, I too had some problem running it but there's a faq on the CTH website, with ATOS you can use ANY Atari demo as a screen saver!! and there's thousands of them all over the net! ATOS also will clean exit when you run programs or games under it! and then return back and your desktop will be just as it was.

Both ATOS and BOSS with work with the Multi-plexer BB and MIO's I have the SAM desktop, Dont bother with it! ATOS and BOSS rule.

 

I runn BBS Express Pro Multi-line It will use all my Atari hardware at the same time, I have also used IceT (term program) to surf the NET with a dialup to FREENET a service in most big Citys

You could also just use a proxy program and let the 8bits surf the NET with just a RS232 device and connect it to your PC.

CSS has the BEST 8bit hardware for the Atari, works forever and Bob Puff is a nice guy and would fix any problem you may have in a good turn around time (no more then 2 week) I know $350.00 bucks gets you a new P3 motherboard and CPU and ram.. but if your into old Atari computer and want to see them real rock! CSS is the way to go. I spend most of my time with my Atari's

 

Bob Puff also has Deals on a complete Hard drive setup give him a call.. I would get atlease a 300 meg super fast SCSI drive for starts If you want he would even do the formating for you at no cost and put whatever dos on it you want, and all you do is plug it in and boot! Both Sparta dos and mydos will boot in under 1 sec.

 

What type of system do you have?

 

Atari8Man

 

[ 12-04-2001: Message edited by: Guy ferrante ]

[Gunstar]

Thanks for the heads-up on everything! Good stuff! I really want to get my 8-bit on the net!

I (currently but soon to change) have a 130xe, 2 US doubled 1050's, 1 1050 with the SIO2PC/1050-2PC cables built in, hooked up to a 200mhz Pentium with cd-rom and floppy (on top of the harddrive) I have all the usual printers&modems for the Atari, plus use the PC's through the sio2pc cable&software. I used to have an 800 and 800xl, which I gave to my nephews to play games on years ago. I also have a C64 setup with 2 disk drives (boy does it suck compared to my Atari!). The 200mhz PC is used ONLY as a slave to my XE and for the internet once in a while. I also have an 800mhz Pentium PC and a Dreamcast I use for surfing&games. I still use my Xe for my finances and wordprocessing, but send it to the PC inkjet to print.

[Guy Ferrante]

Kool, I also had a c64 with disk drive and a ton of games back in the mid 80's infact I was looking into running a bbs with it. That never happen, the Hard drives at that time for the c64 could only handle 190k partitions!! (Yuk) that would be around 100 or more partitions on a 20 meg drive. Plus finding a rs232 device was hard, so the c64 was out of the BBS picture. There was some good games for the c64 that I wished we had for the Atari XL/E like (Knight Games and Fairlight) and maybe a few others but there also lot of awesome games for the Atari that the c64 never got. I realy love 8bit games!! I enjoy them dearly, now that everybody has the PC's and I have 3 of them I only play a few games on it 'Doom,Quake and Unreal' plus a few driving games like Wipeout XL, Rollcage and MotoRacer. I just dont collect PC crap theres to much of it.

I guess where lucky that we have 8bits cause programmers have pushed the same hardware for almost 20 years not like the PC where your system is completly out dated in just 6 months

The SIO2PC cable is Kool, I made a few of them and sold them on Ebay, I have an old 386 DX25 Mhz just for it, and I would love to replace the 386 with a laptop to save space. I found an old 8088 XT system in the trash and it works great with the SIO2PC!

I dont think the c64 folks have a device like it.. I did find a company on the net Called CMD that make good hardware for the c64 but it cost way more that the Atari devices doses.

You have a nice system and I think you want to take it to the next level? you may want to save up for the Black Box (CSS) you'll be veary Happy you did!

 

Atari8Man

 

[ 12-16-2001: Message edited by: Guy ferrante ]

[IceCold]

If iknew you had wanted a laptop for it I could have given you one, but I just sold it on ebay 3-4 weeks ago for like $5. It was an 8088 and I would have probably given it to you for free if I thought you would have used it