Paolo Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 I have had a strange behaviour of my two joypads: when playing Missle Command 3D, I can't go diagonally towards up-left, I am forced to go up, left, up, left, ... This happens ONLY in MC3D, and it didn't show at the beginning when my joypads were new. The strange thing is that the pad works perfectly in ANY OTHER game. Does anybodi knows something more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian M Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 Or you could just BUY a new set of controllers. They are pretty cheap on ebay, especially from a seller called goatari. I bought 2 BRAND NEW controllers from this guy for $9.99! NEW not used! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocket Universe Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 Please Adrian, I thought You understood that most people on this board are full-fledged nerds, like myself. Having a peripheral that You've managed to fix Yourself is far more cool than something bought. Anybody can buy stuff whereas making something yourself is way past cool. Doing something like that means that You're showing Your hardware some respect, these retro-systems are a dying race so I say sod all the Pandas who are near extinction and try to save Your old hardware! I'd try Gunstar's method anytime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VidGameKing Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 you could just solder in some micro switches like they do with the new systems. I do that to all of my broken joysticks. they'll last the rest of your life and probably ten other people's lifes! Its a bit hard to do the soldering but if you practice before it'll be cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian M Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Pocket Universe: Please Adrian, I thought You understood that most people on this board are full-fledged nerds, like myself. Having a peripheral that You've managed to fix Yourself is far more cool than something bought. I understand that 99.9% of us on this board are gaming and hardware gods who love technology. I myself have fixed and rebuilt controllers so I do understand the joy of a do-it-yourself repair job. I wasn't intending to offend anyone with my reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 But do you go diagonally to the left in any other games? What I'm getting at is this; many times the "bubble" that keeps the contacts seperated in the joypad (until you press on it) sometimes start to rip/tear after a while, it may only be HALF torn, so it will work when going directly left, but at a diagonal it won't make contact. The fix for this, without new parts, is to take some superglue, finish tearing the "bubble" out, and superglue the contact (blackside down-facing the board) to the plastic pad itself (non-contact side glued to the bottom of the pad). I did this with ALL four contacts on a worn joypad, and then inserted a keyboard-key spring under the pad to keep it from making contact with the circuit board until you press on it (just like the "bubbles" do originally). It works perfectly again! But if you only have ONE torn contact bubble, then you don't need the spring, the other 3 bubbles will keep it seperated still. [ 02-15-2002: Message edited by: Gunstar ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VidGameKing Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 adrian hows the 5200? how's she doin? got any new games for it? hardware? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goatdan Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 quoteyou could just solder in some micro switches like they do with the new systems. Not trying to sound offensive, but... hunh? What new systems use micro switches in them? I take apart just about every controller I have seen microswitches used in very few non-arcade products. I'm just curious if there is some newer system that has them that I haven't noticed yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VidGameKing Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 Sorry i didnt mean plain old MicroSwitches, like those big ones but the Tactile Micro Switches. and yes they are all over the place, those little square switches, those are them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 He's talking about switches like the 7800 has for it's pause, power, and select keys I think...known as "momentary switches" to us electronic techs&enginears. But I've never seen any being used for the joypads or actual a,b,c,&x,y,z buttons... The newer analog stuff like on PSX dual shocks or XBOX or N64 or DC don't use anything like that either...so I'm not sure where you WOULD use them in modern console controllers unless your totally redesigning them. Superglue works wonders, I used my fix back in '97 and it works great still! (although my procontrollers get used now) But I got a back-up controller if others ever go out...Super glue to electro-nerds* is like duct tape to Red Greene (if anyones ever seen that show, it's a riot!). NO, not TOM GREEN, Red Greene from PBS! * I use this term because I don't consider myself a traditional "nerd," I hate to program, I have a real life, etc. I only consider myself a nerd in the vague terms because I like hardware and games. It's like calling an auto mechanic a nerd because he works on cars...I always hated the term nerd, and I think that many, even here, aren't true "nerds;" those are people who are intraverts and have no social life or no social skills AND are into technology. I'm a cornfed, american outdoorsie type, with a social life, who also likes messing with electronics and video games for a hobby, like some do with wood-working. If someone thinks I, or you, should be classified as a nerd, fine, no sweat off my back, but I don't consider myself one under my definition... [ 02-17-2002: Message edited by: Gunstar ] [ 02-17-2002: Message edited by: Gunstar ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Pocket Universe: Please Adrian, I thought You understood that most people on this board are full-fledged nerds, like myself. Having a peripheral that You've managed to fix Yourself is far more cool than something bought. Anybody can buy stuff whereas making something yourself is way past cool. Doing something like that means that You're showing Your hardware some respect, these retro-systems are a dying race so I say sod all the Pandas who are near extinction and try to save Your old hardware! I'd try Gunstar's method anytime. Exactly! I can't stand to throw away broken hardware for my beloved systems or to leave it sitting around collecting dust. They either get fixed immediately or are salvaged for parts to fix other hardware, everything gets used, no waste!!! Waste is Blasphemy to the hardware! Even if it takes me hours to fix something (time IS money), I'd rather spend hours of my time to fix something than just spend money to buy something...even if my time is worth more than the ten bucks to buy a new controller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian M Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 quote: Originally posted by marialover: adrian hows the 5200? how's she doin? got any new games for it? hardware? The 5200 is doing extremely well. The picture is clear, all of the controllers function PERFECTLY as do the carts you included. I'm currently playing Q*BERT and Miner 2049 alot. As for any new games, I did pick up sealed copies of Star Raiders and Missile Command. I'm looking at getting a complete Space Dungeon and one of those Multi-carts. All in all, I am extremely happy with the trade and the 5200 in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VidGameKing Posted February 18, 2002 Share Posted February 18, 2002 Adrian, I'm glad your enjoying the 5200, is there anything else I can do to make your 5200 better? Gunstar, I'm sorry I didnt know that the newer systems didnt use those, I had thought they had become standard, But then again, I'm a computer hardware engineer so, what do I know? They have on the other hand become VERY standard on computers and computer game pads, joysticks ect... I'm not very much into the newer sytems yet, and have just recently started looking to buy alot of newer consoles. So forgive my assumtion. Yes the switches are momentary, but thats the function you see there is a name and a function. In the Jameco Catalog, (where I buy alot of my hardware supplies from) they list them as: "@ SWITCH,PB,TACT,SPST,OFF-(ON)" here is the web page: Jameco Catalog Part No. 175652 it's a tactile pushButton micro switch. As known by everyone where I work. Another type I use is: Jameco Catalog Part No. 155256 OR: Jameco Catalog Part No. 162886 These are what I use, I surface mount them you know what that is right? I use these instead of the plastic bubble carbon dot things.( I can't remeber their name right now) I've also found a way to use them in the 2600 and 7800 joysticks easily and I plan on working to use them to replace the buttons on the 5200 keypads and fire buttons. I haven't tryed em yet in the Jaguar but from taking one controller apart I'm very sure it can be done. oh and Gunstar, dont make me look stupid, I'm not. Just sometimes the only time I have for AtariAge is when I get home from work, like at 2:30am so I know what I'm talking about, it's just a matter of getting it into words on the computer. My dad is a nerd, He admits it. he is a programer, he wanted me to become a programer, but I wanted to go in the other direction, I am a Computer Hardware Engineer with degrees in Hardware/Printed Curicit Design, Computer Science, and Electronics. And as to ensure I have a day job, I have been certified with the following: MCSE, CCNP, and A+. I am not a nerd, I'm a geek. I belive there is a diference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted February 18, 2002 Author Share Posted February 18, 2002 Time to tank you all for your help and the interesting discussion. Gunstar: I think you're right about the contacts, but the strange thing is that in Blue Lighting and in hoverStrike cooperative mode, I CAN go diagonally! Who knows, maybe it is that MC3D is just less tolerant to bad contacts... Adrian: I opened my joypads, like maybe a lot of you :-) My first thought was that there was a bug in MC3D, since I didn't have problems with BL or HS2. The think I didn't do was to try the diagonal with the joypad open. Well, nevermind -for now-! I don't have the time so I will use my PROController Bye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goatdan Posted February 18, 2002 Share Posted February 18, 2002 quoteMy first thought was that there was a bug in MC3D, since I didn't have problems with BL or HS2. Now that you mention it, I do seem to remember hearing about this before... Perhaps there is a bug in it. I haven't had the problem, but then again I don't really play MC3D much anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian M Posted February 18, 2002 Share Posted February 18, 2002 quote: Originally posted by marialover: Adrian, I'm glad your enjoying the 5200, is there anything else I can do to make your 5200 better? I'm fine for now, thanks! As I said, all the hardware is working perfectly-like new almost! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted February 19, 2002 Share Posted February 19, 2002 quote: Originally posted by marialover: Gunstar, dont make me look stupid, I'm not. Just sometimes the only time I have for AtariAge is when I get home from work, like at 2:30am so I know what I'm talking about, it's just a matter of getting it into words on the computer. I'm not sure what your refering too. Where was I trying to make you look stupid? Please, show me where you think I attemped to make you look, or implied that you were stupid? Where ever it was, I didn't mean for you to take it the way you did...I think you may be a bit overly sensitive and reading things into what I said that weren't there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VidGameKing Posted February 19, 2002 Share Posted February 19, 2002 quote: Gunstar He's talking about switches like the 7800 has for it's pause, power, and select keys I think...known as "momentary switches" to us electronic techs&enginears. I happen to be a Tech/Engineer so you see how that would make me look stupid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stone Posted February 19, 2002 Share Posted February 19, 2002 quote: Now that you mention it, I do seem to remember hearing about this before... Perhaps there is a bug in it. I haven't had the problem, but then again I don't really play MC3D much anymore. Wasn't that caused by using a joypoad extension cable? Either way, looks like the joypad code in MC3D doesn't like flaky signals; I test all my code with a joypad connected through a TT (used as an extension cable) and I haven't had any problems so far, so it looks like they gave up on improving their code once it worked Stone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted February 19, 2002 Share Posted February 19, 2002 quote: Originally posted by marialover: I happen to be a Tech/Engineer so you see how that would make me look stupid No, I don't immediately. After studying my words, I guess you might assume that I wasn't including you in the "us," which was not the case. I was talking to Dan, it was HIS message I replied too, and was just letting him know what TYPE (a different way to describe it)of micro switches YOU were talking about. I know they are microswitches, don't assume I'm stupid by posting catalog parts! If anyone should be complaining about making them look stupid, it's Dan. But I didn't intend it in that way with him either. I don't know who is or who isn't an engineer or tech on this board, and the "us" was an abstract one, specifically including ONLY myself. Not to mention that I'm currently a student and don't even have a degree yet, so I wouldn't be attempting to make ANYONE look stupid with my limited knowledge and even including myself in the "us" was stretching it. Your way too over sensitive and are reading things into what I wrote. Just read what I write, I rarely use inuendo or implications, as far as my writing goes, maybe it's too vague once in a while, but if I'm too specific then people will accuse me of being Patronizing toward them. A cigar is sometimes just a cigar...and no, I'm not patronizing you with this reply, but you obviously misunderstood what I wrote, so this explanation was needed. [ 02-19-2002: Message edited by: Gunstar ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goatdan Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 quote I was talking to Dan, it was HIS message I replied too, and was just letting him know what TYPE (a different way to describe it)of micro switches YOU were talking about. I'm sorry, the following are all that us arcade peoples think of as Microswitches: Arcade MicroSwitches (what I thought you were talking about) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VidGameKing Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 Ahh, I see how people then can be confused. I apologize for the misconception and for the misunderstanding of your words Gunstar. Forgive my sensitivity and befuddled personality. I wont let it get the better part of me again, here. on with things... how can the code of the game be effected by dirty contacts? dosent the Jaguar use the 68K chip to controll the joystick among alot of other things? if there is signal there is signal nomatter how much or little there is it's a anolog joypad, it's either on or off. and it's hardware controlled isn't it? atleast it would be logical to do it like that right? leave hardware with hardware and make the software to fit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 quote: Originally posted by marialover: Ahh, I see how people then can be confused. I apologize for the misconception and for the misunderstanding of your words Gunstar. Forgive my sensitivity and befuddled personality. I wont let it get the better part of me again, here. on with things... how can the code of the game be effected by dirty contacts? dosent the Jaguar use the 68K chip to controll the joystick among alot of other things? if there is signal there is signal nomatter how much or little there is it's a anolog joypad, it's either on or off. and it's hardware controlled isn't it? atleast it would be logical to do it like that right? leave hardware with hardware and make the software to fit? No problem. Yes, it does have to be either on or off, it's just that those little "bubble" contacts (I don't remember the name of them either) are strange little things...they can get half torn and if it happens to be at just the right position, it will work in one direction but maybe not in another. Someone could do a thesis study on the subject, but I just know it happens because it has happened to me, and once I finished tearing out the bubble and then attached the contacts like I described in my "low budget repair" above, the controller works fine again. As for your micro "momentary" switch suggestion, that is a good idea, but I was just showing a "quick fix" for someone who I have no idea of how knowledgeable they are about electronics or their resources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stone Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 quote: how can the code of the game be affected by dirty contacts? It can't, but if the joypad code is written without taking such things into account it may simply do nothing when confronted with them. We've experienced the problems when using an extension cable so I'd guess it's just not very tolerant of noise on the joypad port. Have you considered you may be playing the game in a different style to your other games? If you press the diagonals harder in MC3D than in other games it could make the difference between it registering and not. quote dosent the Jaguar use the 68K chip to controll the joystick among alot of other things? Common misconception alert: the Jag can read the pads with any chip, just the 68K is usually used to do so. There's nothing (afaik) preventing a coder from accessing the pads using any of the chips present in the Jag, nothing is hardwired in. quote: if there is signal there is signal nomatter how much or little there is Correct, but if the code requires a certain amount of 'signal' to trigger a button-press then it may not register. It's sadly not as black and white as you seem to think it is...you could set up code to only register a press after a set amount of time with the button pressed (to prevent a single press being detected as many due to an effect known as 'contact bounce' - look it up if you're interested) and I'd suspect that code doing this is causing your problems. quote it's a anolog joypad, it's either on or off. You mean digital. Analogue means it can supply any value in a range, digital is 1/0. quote: and it's hardware controlled isn't it? Erm...no. The coder has to personally set up routines to make one row high (logic 1), then check each of the column inputs for a signal, then move on to the next row and so on. Hardware is only involved in that the pad is physically connected to the Jag, the coder has to do everything else. quote atleast it would be logical to do it like that right? Since when have Atari systems been logical? quote: leave hardware with hardware and make the software to fit? That's what it is...you seem to be arguing both sides of the argument at once. Your argument was (I thought) that the pads are read in hardware, which isn't correct. The hardware however allows the software to access it directly and select what it does. Hope that answered some of your questions Any more feel free to ask. And apologies for the quote-fest, I went a bit overboard I know Stone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VidGameKing Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 that's right I ment digital, I was thinking "it isn't anolog it's digital" and I must have written anolog. I didnt correct it, I dont know why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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