Jaguar game developement and pre-existing graphic engines

[Gunstar]

Matthias Domin! that's the author, same person that did Jagmania Pac-mania clone (which is fully playable and quite brilliant for a small game).

[Songbird]

quote:

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Originally posted by Glenn Saunders:

I'm not aware of Songbird's sale figures. Are you aware enough to classify these as "popular"?

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The games have been "popular" relative to the active fanbase (low hundreds). There's no doubt that Protector and Skyhammer have been the best sellers on the Jaguar so far for Songbird, but Protector itself shows that Jaguar fans are quite happy to receive an excellent 2D game.

 

Previously, you had commented that "People are not going to get that excited about 2D Jag homebrews." On the contrary, I think many active Jaguar fans are classic gaming fans, and would love to see more quality 2D games for the Jag.

 

quote:

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Why write for the Jag if your games are basically equivalent to what you can do on an Amiga 1200?

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I don't know what the capabilities of an Amiga 1200 are, but I'm not advocating making simple 2D games on the Jag that look like they belong on a NES or 5200. I'd like to see new Jag games come out that take advantage of the system's graphical and audio abilities. Well-written 2D games can do this.

 

quote:

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The world does not need yet another asteroids clone. It didn't need it in 1984 with the 7800 and it doesn't need one now. I guess it's an obligatory project, but nothing to get that excited about. I can play Asteroids or Asteroids Deluxe in all their glory as emulations on my PC.

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OTOH, 7800 Asteroids is one of my favorite games. IMHO, they did exactly what should have been done for the 7800 version (unless they would have done an arcade perfect port, that would have been cool, too): they enhanced the graphics, added occasional "outer space" audio effects, and added two-player co-op/competitive modes.

 

Now think about doing a Jaguar Asteroids, with all-rendered graphics, 4 (or player support, powerups, selectable ships, and a great soundtrack, and you'd have a cool game on your hands I think.

 

quote:

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If 2D games are going to be written, they really should try to be original.

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Original is always desirable, of course, but at the same time, nothing wrong with taking a timeless classic like Space Invaders or Asteroids and giving it the "64-bit treatment"... along the way, you just might make an original twist on the concept anyway.

 

[ 05-20-2002: Message edited by: Songbird ]

[Gunstar]

quote:

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Originally posted by Songbird:

Original is always desirable, of course, but at the same time, nothing wrong with taking a timeless classic like Space Invaders or Asteroids and giving it the "64-bit treatment"... along the way, you just might an original twist on the concept anyway.

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YEAH!!...what he said...

[Tyrant]

quote:

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Originally posted by Glenn Saunders:

[QBThe world does not need yet another asteroids clone. It didn't need it in 1984 with the 7800 and it doesn't need one now.[/QB]

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In a similar vein, the world does not need another Galaxian clone, looking through the list of games mame supports, I'd have to say almost 10% of them are straight rips or new graphics for Galaxian, its sick! Im a little young to remember Galaxian the first time round (Im only 21 now), but didnt the world get totally sick of it?

[Gunstar]

quote:

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Originally posted by Tyrant:

In a similar vein, the world does not need another Galaxian clone, looking through the list of games mame supports, I'd have to say almost 10% of them are straight rips or new graphics for Galaxian, its sick! Im a little young to remember Galaxian the first time round (Im only 21 now), but didnt the world get totally sick of it?

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Well, considering that about 1/3 of the levels on Zero5 are basically 3D Galaxian levels (actually more like Galaga, but that's a Galaxian clone in it's own rite) and that a new Gorf game is in the works which has levels like Galaxian, and how Galaxian keeps showing up on every "Greatest hits" CD for consoles and how it's been ported to like every system ever, including portables, I'd say that no, people haven't gotten tired of it yet. Didn't a new 3D version for the PC come out a few years back?

[+rdemming]

quote:

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Originally posted by Gunstar:

Didn't a new 3D version for the PC come out a few years back?

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Yes, "Galaga: Destination Earth" from Hasbro in 2000.

 

Robert

[Tyrant]

ARRGH!!! NOOOooooooo......

 

Dont get me wrong, galaxian is a priety fun game, the problem is that its boring after about half a level, and I've never yet seen a port / clone that has changed that.

 

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I take back all I said, Galaga is a worthy clone, great fun, the perfect dificulty level, chalanging and very adictive, thank you for raising my awareness of it.

 

/me loves mame

 

[ 05-26-2002: Message edited by: Tyrant ]

[meltdown71835]

I wonder where I can buy one of those Jaguar Development Kits?

[Gunstar]

quote:

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Originally posted by meltdown71835:

I wonder where I can buy one of those Jaguar Development Kits?

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B&C Computervisions has them, $99 for the base unit and $550 for the Alpine board. All the tools are downloadable from Jaguar64.de and links to these sites are right here at Atari Age, or you can also go to Jaguar Interactive and the links for these sites are right at the top. BEST ELECTRONICS also stocks Alpine boards, but I'm not sure about the base unit...maybe. They have a link here at Atari Age and on JI2 as well.

[Thunderbird]

Is that price for a 4MB Alpine board or a 2MB one?

 

I know you can convert the 2MB ones to 4MB, but it takes a couple hundred dollars in SRAM chips and the ability to solder surface mount parts.

[Gunstar]

As I would expect from Bruce, he doesn't specify which it is, so I'd assume the 2meg one, I think if it were the 4meg (again knowing how this guy operates) he'd have a big banner stating it's 4meg. Best, has them for quite a bit less and does specify that they are 2meg ones. But who knows, maybe I'm wrong and Bruce is selling the 4meg ones for $550. I hope I'm wrong, but I've HAD to deal with B&C a number of times over the years and the customer is definately NOT right as far as they are concerned and they have VERY shady tactics as far as I'm concerned. Unfortunately they're sometimes the only place to get stuff I need. I had problems with them in the past...and don't trust them.

[Thunderbird]

quote:

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Originally posted by Gunstar:

As I would expect from Bruce, he doesn't specify which it is, so I'd assume the 2meg one, I think if it were the 4meg (again knowing how this guy operates) he'd have a big banner stating it's 4meg. Best, has them for quite a bit less and does specify that they are 2meg ones. But who knows, maybe I'm wrong and Bruce is selling the 4meg ones for $550. I hope I'm wrong, but I've HAD to deal with B&C a number of times over the years and the customer is definately NOT right as far as they are concerned and they have VERY shady tactics as far as I'm concerned. Unfortunately they're sometimes the only place to get stuff I need. I had problems with them in the past...and don't trust them.

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I don't think I've ever ordered from them. They do have some really tempting stuff though. Lots of really cool old Atari stuff indeed.

 

And remember, they did come up with a lot of stuff that would otherwise been lost. Like SW2K and the bypass.

[atarifan49]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gunstar:

<STRONG>As I would expect from Bruce, he doesn't specify which it is, so I'd assume the 2meg one, I think if it were the 4meg (again knowing how this guy operates) he'd have a big banner stating it's 4meg. Best, has them for quite a bit less and does specify that they are 2meg ones. But who knows, maybe I'm wrong and Bruce is selling the 4meg ones for $550. I hope I'm wrong, but I've HAD to deal with B&C a number of times over the years and the customer is definately NOT right as far as they are concerned and they have VERY shady tactics as far as I'm concerned. Unfortunately they're sometimes the only place to get stuff I need. I had problems with them in the past...and don't trust them.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

I don't think I've ever ordered from them. They do have some really tempting stuff though. Lots of really cool old Atari stuff indeed.

 

And remember, they did come up with a lot of stuff that would otherwise been lost. Like SW2K and the bypass.

 

 

They're 2MB boards. Very few 4MB boards came out of Atari. Atari didn't make much of these unless a developer really needed them. They were very, very, very expensive to make. And the boards that he has left are in excellent shape.

 

And the vast majority of boards that were left when Atari closed their doors were sent to chip recovery companies. Atari ordered them to destroy the circuit boards after removing the memory chips.

 

Also, the way to tell if an Alpine is 2MB or 4MB is by the number or SRAM chips. A 2MB has more chips (16 of them). A 4MB has only 8 chips.

 

 

Glenn

[Gunstar]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gunstar:

<STRONG>As I would expect from Bruce, he doesn't specify which it is, so I'd assume the 2meg one, I think if it were the 4meg (again knowing how this guy operates) he'd have a big banner stating it's 4meg. Best, has them for quite a bit less and does specify that they are 2meg ones. But who knows, maybe I'm wrong and Bruce is selling the 4meg ones for $550. I hope I'm wrong, but I've HAD to deal with B&C a number of times over the years and the customer is definately NOT right as far as they are concerned and they have VERY shady tactics as far as I'm concerned. Unfortunately they're sometimes the only place to get stuff I need. I had problems with them in the past...and don't trust them.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

I don't think I've ever ordered from them. They do have some really tempting stuff though. Lots of really cool old Atari stuff indeed.

 

And remember, they did come up with a lot of stuff that would otherwise been lost. Like SW2K and the bypass.

 

That is true. We must appreciate what they have brought out for the Jag and Lynx, but I've had problems so I'm personally jaded...e.g. I ordered Defender 2000 from them back in '96 and they got my address messed up and it was returned to them. They never contacted me. After several weeks, I contacted them. They told me I had given them the wrong address (I gave them the right one, I KNOW my ownd D*MN adress!!!), and said they would not ship it out again until I sent them ANOTHER shipping and handling fee. I had ALREADY invested a total of about $80 in the deal (69.95 plus shipping&handling). I told them I was not going to pay for THEIR mistake in my address and that I wanted my money back...they OUTRIGHT REFUSED to give me a refund AT ALL. So I had to send more money to them in order to get my game, all said and done the d*mn game cost me close to a hundred dollars and it took ANOTHER six weeks for me to get it!!! THIS WAS NOT THE ONLY PROBLEM I"VE HAD WITH THEM, just the worst and first. This is not how honest people do business, hence, I do not trust Bruce.

[meltdown71835]

So are there college classes that teach MC68000 Assembler? Also, do you create graphics by programming or using photoshop for the jaguar?

[Stone]

B&C Computervisions has them, $99 for the base unit and $550 for the Alpine board.

 

Don't ever buy a development Jag, you can make one yourself for only a coupla $ more than the cost of the Jaguar. You just need to replace the boot ROM and add a Stubulator cable (10 minutes work with a desoldering pump, 5 mins resoldering the bits, maybe 5 mins cutting a hole in the back for the cable). Costing about $5 maximum.

 

Also, do you create graphics by programming or using photoshop for the jaguar?

Both. The easiest way is to use the TGA2CRY program to convert your TGA files from Photoshop into Jag-format CRY files, then use the INCBIN command to include them in your program. Simple.

 

If anyone wants me to make them a development Jag BTW I'm more than happy Mail me.

 

Stone

[Thunderbird]

So are there college classes that teach MC68000 Assembler? Also, do you create graphics by programming or using photoshop for the jaguar?

 

I always wanted to port my CRY converter to a photoshop export filter, but with the summer in full-on mode, who has time for hacking. :-(

[Gunstar]

B&C Computervisions has them' date=' $99 for the base unit and $550 for the Alpine board. [/quote']

 

Don't ever buy a development Jag, you can make one yourself for only a coupla $ more than the cost of the Jaguar. You just need to replace the boot ROM and add a Stubulator cable (10 minutes work with a desoldering pump, 5 mins resoldering the bits, maybe 5 mins cutting a hole in the back for the cable). Costing about $5 maximum.

 

Well, I wouldn't have payed $99 for mine, luckily it only cost me a regular Jag, standard controller (which I never use because I have 2 pro's and an arcade stick...as well as more standard controllers) and Syndicate. So I'd say I did all right. But, before it became available to me, I was always planning on just sticking with JUGS or Protector:SE's built-in BJL to do my future development. Which I may do anyway, especially if I can eventually get my hands on BSG! Not that I don't have the classic with JUGS already, but do I need to explain myself on this one? Anywho, it's great that you can modify people's Jags for so cheap, similiar to the BJL mod, but how about that Alpine board? That's the REAL money snagger! How about a cheap alternative to paying 5 HUNDY for a 2meg Alpine?

[meltdown71835]

Can Atari Jaguar cartriges carry more that 2 mb? I was wondering if thats possible.

[Garvin]

Can Atari Jaguar cartriges carry more that 2 mb? I was wondering if thats possible.

 

Yeah. Carts may be as large as 6MB (well, there is addressing for sizes that large). As of now there are only a few carts that are 4MB in size. Most are 2MB.

 

 

-Garvin

[meltdown71835]

Where can I find a site where it shows the process of creating a jaguar game since I am just a newbie thats still too young to go to college. I would like to learn how to do everything from creating 2d pixels and 3d models to creating music and programming the game. I don't even know how the insides of a system even works or what RAM is used for! So im trying to do this research so when I become alot experienced, I can try to tackle the jaguar.

[Thunderbird]

Where can I find a site where it shows the process of creating a jaguar game since I am just a newbie thats still too young to go to college. I would like to learn how to do everything from creating 2d pixels and 3d models to creating music and programming the game. I don't even know how the insides of a system even works or what RAM is used for! So im trying to do this research so when I become alot experienced, I can try to tackle the jaguar.

 

 

A good place to start looking is atari-jaguar.de

 

Also, so a google search to find "bad coder" and Jaguar together to find Bad Coder's site. Lots of samples there.

[Starcat]

A good place to start looking is atari-jaguar.de

 

Also, so a google search to find "bad coder" and Jaguar together to find Bad Coder's site. Lots of samples there.

 

The url: www.atari-jaguar.de is outdated. The correct URL is http://www.atari-jaguar64.de since some months.

 

Regards, Lars.

[Thunderbird]

 

A good place to start looking is atari-jaguar.de

 

Also, so a google search to find "bad coder" and Jaguar together to find Bad Coder's site. Lots of samples there.

 

The url: www.atari-jaguar.de is outdated. The correct URL is http://www.atari-jaguar64.de since some months.

 

Regards, Lars.

 

 

 

Sorry, Lars...

 

I was at work and didn't have my bookmarks handy when I typed that.

[Starcat]

Hi Thunderbird !

 

No Problem. But please keep the correct URL in mind.

 

Regards, Lars.