justclaws Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 Hello, But I'm not positive that the original price of Battlesphere was that excessive or that out of line. I'm sure the parts for the carts are/were expensive. Printing the boxes & instruction manuals in low numbers I'm sure is a VERY expensive project. Plus the costs of the add-ins (CD's' date='etc) had to figure in final costs. And everyone that worked on the game should be compensated (even if they donate it to charity) for their time, work, and effort. It all adds to the final cost of the game. $160 is a high price for a game like Battlesphere but I'm not sure it is that excessive a cost when you consider the game as a "homebrew" (for lack of a better term) project rather than one released by a corporation.[/quote']This is a very reasoned statement, and it's a pity you got attacked here by some people that choose to post here only to attack you on this... Regarding your comment that you wish somebody else could pick up the game, licence it, and reissue it at lower cost, I think this will never happen, but I'd like to see it, I'd love to see more people able to play. I don't see any hypocrisy between saying that you wish it would be made available for sale more cheaply, and you buying it yourself at high cost. If you'd said people should not but it for $400, then did, that would be. I have 2 BS, and 1 BSG. I bought them to play, I don't preserve them in a special cabinet or anything. To know that they might fetch so much money on Ebay if I need cash fast in future is nice, but at the same time if Scatologic were to strike a deal with somebody to flood the market with them tomorrow, at $50, it would make no difference, as I'm not selling. I hope you enjoy the game, and feel the $400 was well spent. It seems several people will take it off your hands again for more, if you don't. Cheers, JustClaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justclaws Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 Hello, Seems this person thinks selling for a fortune was a pretty good idea. Too bad he didn't see this thread. Maybe he would have agreed with your philosophy and had a BIN "at a reasonable price." Now I'm really confused actually. I thought Mendon had bought for $400, but now I see he's selling. There's been so much venom spouted about this thread I don't know. JustClaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justclaws Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 Hello, Without trying to speak for anyone from Scatologic' date=' I believe part of the reason for the low production run was the value factor. I've seen games released in low numbers to retain a higher value than those released in abundance, but again, this is just an assumption of my own that I've concluded over the years.[...']ask the programmers of BattleSphere themselves. I'm interested in your theory, regardless of what Mendon says/does, Saturn. I thought it was well known that cost and effort was the case, and the final nail in the coffin was Scatologic's disenchantment with the Jaguar "scene", after criticism, just as all their Jag sales ended. Sad but true, and I don't go for your conspiracy theory on this one. However, it must be gratifying to see people value one's work highly. Cheers, JustClaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagWarlord Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 If i'm not mistaken, I believe Mendon bought that BSG at the same or very close price that he sold it for($400) So what's wrong with selling at the price he paid for it? $400 is cheap nowadays compared to the recent auctions of $600 and up. Even at those prices it's still a fucked up price and getting way out of hand. Mendon doesn't set the price and neither does ebay, ScatoLogic sets the price. There is no excuse why they can't continue to make more copies of BS/BSG. I really think ScatoLogic should release a $50 cart only version for the people that just wanna play the game and doesn't give a shit about collecting or because of clear cart cases, fansy boxes and manual's. Thats where the price hike comes from- fansy packaging. That way gamers can be happy because they finally have a chance to play BS/BSG without forking over insain amounts of money for a homebrew. Most people don't give a shit about collecting and just want to play the damn game. BS/BSG is way too good of a game to keep from the public. All this BS/BSG bickering thats gone on for years makes me wanna puke. I think instead of pointing the finger at Mendon, you should start pointing it at ScatoLogic. Peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justclaws Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Hello, If i'm not mistaken, I believe Mendon bought that BSG at the same or very close price that he sold it for($400) So what's wrong with selling at the price he paid for it? $400 is cheap nowadays compared to the recent auctions of $600 and up. Even at those prices it's still a fucked up price and getting way out of hand.I have no problem with that, and indeed others would pay more...People were saying elsewhere they'd up to $600 for the next one! Mendon doesn't set the price and neither does ebay, ScatoLogic sets the price. Now that's not fair. Scatologic set the price on BS to $69.95, and thento $159.95 on BSG, but the market forces pushed the prices higher, partly this is a case of a snake feeding on it's own tail though. As the prices rocket, investors move in to make a quick buck, and if people are willing to pay, the investors make their money out of collectors. There is no excuse why they can't continue to make more copies of BS/BSG.Why should they? They don't respect the other possible publishers so the prospect of any licenced versions is pretty dim. It won't change. I really think ScatoLogic should release a $50 cart only version for the people that just wanna play the game and doesn't give a shit about collecting or because of clear cart cases, fansy boxes and manual's. Well I don't know if the current market for Jaguar products has morecollectors/investors who want fanCy packaging etc., or more players interested in real games. Only time will tell if investors hang-around to buy future products. As it is, why should anybody bother to release more products, at low prices or not, if the market is only "investors". Most people don't give a shit about collecting and just want to play the damn game. BS/BSG is way too good of a game to keep from the public.I agree, speaking as somebody with exactly that view point. I don'tkeep my games in a cabinet locked away, I keep them near, to play! I hate how collecting has taken over video-games, not just Jaguar, but it seems most platforms. Even worse, more than collecting, it is more and more investing, collecting with a view to a later profit only. I remember you as a pretty major player/collector in the past JW? Cheers, JustClaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justclaws Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Hello, I really think ScatoLogic should release a $50 cart only version for the people that just wanna play the game and doesn't give a shit about collecting or because of clear cart cases, fansy boxes and manual's. Incidentally, for comparison, Songbird charged $74.95 for their 4MB Jaguar games ($5 more than Scatologic charged in 2000 for BS, as they dropped the price at release from $74.95 to $69.95) and I think that's good value. B&C charge $40 for their lowest price releases of Aircars, with no box and cheap label. $50 is still unreleastic on the parts alone, let alone licensing and 4Play's "profits to charity" rule. I think the only way more people may get to play is if Scatologic complete a version for a another platform, particular for the PC. It's all academic though, and if anybody really wanted to argue this out with Scatologic (why) then you could do so on JS-II now. Cheers, JustClaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Since AtariAge's relationship with Scatologic isn't the happiest, will you be doing a BattleSphere contest for AGE 2004? If not, we could get a bunch of AtariAgers to bring their copies of Aircars and have a network shoot-out. I've always heard that Aircars was fun in multiplayer. Which is good, because one player Aircars is boring as hell. I couldn't answer that for you, I won't be doing JagFest @ AGE this year, so that will depend on who runs it IF it's done at all. If someone steps up and does it, then great, but I think I'm done with running JagFest events. I'm living in Canyon Lake, Texas now, so I'm definately up for doing a Jagfest at AGE, I don't want it to end just when I've moved close enough to attend/help out. I'd LOVE to help CO-HOST a Jagfest at the show, doing it all by myself would be too much for me, at least for my first run. We might be able to get Saturn to help too, he's in the general area. So, if your up for being a co-host, and NOT having to do it all yourself, give me a PM. I can be a BIG, BIG, help too, I have a LOT of Jaggy stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Or, if you are at least willing to point me in the right direction to get me going, with who to contact and general info on hosting a section at AGE, maybe I can find someone to help me host it if you are totally unwilling to be a part of it anymore... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Or, if you are at least willing to point me in the right direction to get me going, with who to contact and general info on hosting a section at AGE, maybe I can find someone to help me host it if you are totally unwilling to be a part of it anymore... Send me a PM and we can discuss it. ..Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendon Posted March 14, 2005 Author Share Posted March 14, 2005 I would like to say Thank You to all those who posted kind words about me here. Very much appreciated! When I started this thread and posted a couple of the thoughts/speculations I had, I in no way intended for it to become any sort of negative posting area. I'm very sorry it did and apologize for my part if I contributed to it in any way. I would like to add one final comment regarding my Battlesphere auction: I set a BIN/Reserve price of exactly what I paid for the game several months ago. I was simply trying to recoup the money I had paid so I could purchase other items I wanted, such as the import Saturn system I recently won on eBay. But stupid me forgot about the fee's that eBay & PayPal charge so after listing, final value, and PayPal fee's I ended up losing $27+ against what I paid for BS. I made no profit or "killing" by selling the game. With that said, I really don't want to make any further comments regarding the couple of posts that I took exception with as I don't wish to clutter up AtariAge with exchanges of this sort. I would much prefer to move on and discuss the Jag itself and its games. Thanks again for the kind posts. Mendon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justclaws Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Hello, I would like to say Thank You to all those who posted kind words about me here. Very much appreciated!It's cool, I hope you took my statements as not negative, at least. Cheers, JustClaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaysmith2000 Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 Yes, I hate all these collectors....oh wait, shit that's me! Hmmm...Well 4 releases later at a price of $10 per CD with excellent packaging and professionally printed CD's....Hmmmm.... Then, there's the FREE giveaway of Ultra Vortek Beta on here as well as the American Hero CD Encrypted at JSII. I guess I'm in it for the MONEY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggy the Atarian Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 Face it guys, if we're into any Atari system then we are collectors. So maybe you have a collector here and there that doesn't play his games everyday or maybe almost never, SO WHAT? If you paid for it, then it's yours. Should I cry because I can't easily get a hold of every rarity 10 game for the 2600? No. I missed out on BSG, but will life go on? Yes. Even if 10,000,000 copies of BS were made tomorrow, does that mean that everyone in the game market will just gobble them up and experience a good game? Of course not, the only people that give a crap about the Jaguar are fanatics like us. Fanatical rabid collectors, a group I'm proud to be a part of. Sure we'll get some new members every now and then but will we every number in the thousands or millions (as Jaguar fans)? No so we shouldn't expect there to be that many copies of any Jag game around, especially homebrews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaysmith2000 Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 Face it guys, if we're into any Atari system then we are collectors. So maybe you have a collector here and there that doesn't play his games everyday or maybe almost never, SO WHAT? If you paid for it, then it's yours. Should I cry because I can't easily get a hold of every rarity 10 game for the 2600? No. I missed out on BSG, but will life go on? Yes. Even if 10,000,000 copies of BS were made tomorrow, does that mean that everyone in the game market will just gobble them up and experience a good game? Of course not, the only people that give a crap about the Jaguar are fanatics like us. Fanatical rabid collectors, a group I'm proud to be a part of. Sure we'll get some new members every now and then but will we every number in the thousands or millions (as Jaguar fans)? No so we shouldn't expect there to be that many copies of any Jag game around, especially homebrews. Nicely said Shaggy! Hey, I'm in it for the MONEY though! Show me the MONEY! Show me the MONEY! Show me the MONEY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Saturn Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 I guess I'm in it for the MONEY! Good one! I find it odd that all the "experts" here on economics, supply and demand, writing an entire Jaguar game from scratch and producing and selling that game in your spare time at a loss haven't taken me up on my courteous invitation to come on over to JSII and participate with the creators in a lively discussion about the facts- and not all the misinformed drivel that seems to be (endlessly) happening here. I'd wanted carry the discussion over "as I don't wish to clutter up AtariAge with exchanges of this sort, but for reasons I can't seem to fathom- my posts are picked apart by individuals who apparently hung on every word I wrote except these: But, we're having a field day with this over at JS-II so pop in and have a peek. Plus, you can ask Thunderbird himself about why BS:G was produced the way it was and get a straight answer without fear of being banned. But, I can see where that'd be the most convenient course of action by those who've had their rearends publicly handed to them on multiple occasions by at least one of the creators. I'd stay where it's safe too, if it meant being proven wrong some more! This thread is too much! Thanks for the laughs! Our similar thread is up to (and about to exceed) six pages because of all the comical posts and hollow expertise going on. We've also spawned a number of branching threads- focused on particular comments. Keep it coming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggy the Atarian Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 Face it guys, if we're into any Atari system then we are collectors. So maybe you have a collector here and there that doesn't play his games everyday or maybe almost never, SO WHAT? If you paid for it, then it's yours. Should I cry because I can't easily get a hold of every rarity 10 game for the 2600? No. I missed out on BSG, but will life go on? Yes. Even if 10,000,000 copies of BS were made tomorrow, does that mean that everyone in the game market will just gobble them up and experience a good game? Of course not, the only people that give a crap about the Jaguar are fanatics like us. Fanatical rabid collectors, a group I'm proud to be a part of. Sure we'll get some new members every now and then but will we every number in the thousands or millions (as Jaguar fans)? No so we shouldn't expect there to be that many copies of any Jag game around, especially homebrews. Nicely said Shaggy! Hey, I'm in it for the MONEY though! Show me the MONEY! Show me the MONEY! Show me the MONEY! Well aren't you making TONS of money by selling off those special packs and from tickets sold to tour your museum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaysmith2000 Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 Face it guys, if we're into any Atari system then we are collectors. So maybe you have a collector here and there that doesn't play his games everyday or maybe almost never, SO WHAT? If you paid for it, then it's yours. Should I cry because I can't easily get a hold of every rarity 10 game for the 2600? No. I missed out on BSG, but will life go on? Yes. Even if 10,000,000 copies of BS were made tomorrow, does that mean that everyone in the game market will just gobble them up and experience a good game? Of course not, the only people that give a crap about the Jaguar are fanatics like us. Fanatical rabid collectors, a group I'm proud to be a part of. Sure we'll get some new members every now and then but will we every number in the thousands or millions (as Jaguar fans)? No so we shouldn't expect there to be that many copies of any Jag game around, especially homebrews. Nicely said Shaggy! Hey, I'm in it for the MONEY though! Show me the MONEY! Show me the MONEY! Show me the MONEY! Well aren't you making TONS of money by selling off those special packs and from tickets sold to tour your museum? The museum is definitely going to bring in the BIG BUCKS! heh! I forgot to mention the fees I pay every month for my forums....I guess I'm not a very smart investor huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walter_J64bit Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 I love when peolpe are billy aching about the price of BS and BSG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobracon Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 I love when peolpe are billy aching about the price of BS and BSG As they say, "No Brain No Pain" lol I really wish the community could move on, but certain people can't let things go. Anyone that collects Jaggy stuff as an investment is insane. The only thing worth money is BattleSphere. AND what does that say about the game and its creators? One guess and its not bad. Thats all I have to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justclaws Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 Hello, Yes, I hate all these collectors....oh wait, shit that's me!Hmmm...Well 4 releases later at a price of $10 per CD with excellent packaging and professionally printed CD's....Hmmmm.... Then, there's the FREE giveaway of Ultra Vortek Beta on here as well as the American Hero CD Encrypted at JSII. I guess I'm in it for the MONEY! My comments were a blanket criticism. Perhaps I should try to identify every last individual who's a good guy and who isn't. Seriously though, you must agree, there are people who are getting into the Jaguar these days looking to make a quick $ because they can see that the Jaguar is a collectors' market. Then people come along and complain that the prices are high, because they compare them to the prices of the clearances in the days after Atari folded. I guess in the end one is damned if you do, and damned if you don't, talking about these things. JustClaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justclaws Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 Hello, My comments were a blanket criticism. ...were NOT a blanket criticism, but could be taken that way. Hang-on, let me take a match to my Jaguar collection as penance. <i>Whoosh.</i> JustClaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaysmith2000 Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 Hello, Yes, I hate all these collectors....oh wait, shit that's me!Hmmm...Well 4 releases later at a price of $10 per CD with excellent packaging and professionally printed CD's....Hmmmm.... Then, there's the FREE giveaway of Ultra Vortek Beta on here as well as the American Hero CD Encrypted at JSII. I guess I'm in it for the MONEY! My comments were a blanket criticism. Perhaps I should try to identify every last individual who's a good guy and who isn't. Seriously though, you must agree, there are people who are getting into the Jaguar these days looking to make a quick $ because they can see that the Jaguar is a collectors' market. Then people come along and complain that the prices are high, because they compare them to the prices of the clearances in the days after Atari folded. I guess in the end one is damned if you do, and damned if you don't, talking about these things. JustClaws. No worries. Bullseyevideogames is the first that comes to mind. They buy all kinds of Jaguar stuff of ebay and relist it. They've won several of my larger auctions in the past. There's definitely that small segment that is driving pricing. Oftentimes though they're BIN and Reserve are so high no one ever meets 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaysmith2000 Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 I love when peolpe are billy aching about the price of BS and BSG As they say, "No Brain No Pain" lol I really wish the community could move on, but certain people can't let things go. Anyone that collects Jaggy stuff as an investment is insane. The only thing worth money is BattleSphere. AND what does that say about the game and its creators? One guess and its not bad. Thats all I have to say. I couldn't agree more, this subject comes up way too much! I really wish the creators of BS could be here to defend their feelings about it and the accuracy of the statements made.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthias Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 Hello! I couldn't agree more, this subject comes up way too much! I really wish the creators of BS could be here to defend their feelings about it and the accuracy of the statements made.... I think it would help if the Scatalogic people would do a small change on their website (www.battlesphere.com): The "ordering page" is still available (although they don't accept orders any more) and lists the prices for most of their products with the exception of the original Battlesphere (the BS-price-tag was removed after BSGold was made available, BSGold is the successor, not a special edition). People could then do this simple calculation: BSGold = (Updated) BS (incl. CD-Bypass, coming in special casing) + Demo-CD + JUGS I am rounding the prices up for ease of calculation: Sum of "part" prices = $70 + $15 + $30 + X = $115 + X BSGold-price is $160, so X seems to be around $45. These $45 cover the special casing and a CD-Bypass, not to speak about any changes (-->raises) in the EPROM-prices. Regards Matthias[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthias Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 Hello Saturn! I find it odd that all the "experts" here on economics, supply and demand, writing an entire Jaguar game from scratch and producing and selling that game in your spare time at a loss haven't taken me up on my courteous invitation to come on over to JSII and participate with the creators in a lively discussion about the facts- and not all the misinformed drivel that seems to be (endlessly) happening here. I'd wanted carry the discussion over "as I don't wish to clutter up AtariAge with exchanges of this sort, but for reasons I can't seem to fathom- my posts are picked apart by individuals who apparently hung on every word I wrote except these: But, we're having a field day with this over at JS-II so pop in and have a peek. I can give you an explanation: Giving a concrete URL to a JS-II thread does help only JS-II members, all other people get an error-message-screen (I know it is a login-screen, but it starts with "The following Error..."). Best regards Matthias Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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