Susuwatari Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Atari 2600 verstion of Pitfall 2 doesn't have the extra lavels that are found on 5200 version. Is it possible to add the extra level? Maybe sacrifice the extra sound to make extra level fit? EDIT: cleaned up the subject to clarify my idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCmodeler Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 I'd buy it! The 5200 version is okay, but I really prefer the nostalgia of the 2600. If I could get the second half of Pitfall on the 2600, I'd dump the 5200 version. It shouldn't be too hard... just double the ROM size to allow room for the second half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 By doubling the rom size, you would need to employ bankswitching (because the 2600 can only "see" 4k of rom). In addition, instructions would need to be added to decide when to use the alternate map, and the alternate map data itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeybastard Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Well isn't the code totally different between the 2600 and the 5200? I think it would require somebody to compeletely reprogram that level in. It's not like it could just be compiled differently to work on the 2600, it would take a lot of programming work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Oops...correction: There is no map data. The game uses an algorithm to create the screen value...whose bits determine what is there. This algorithm uses a "random" seed value...and is constructed in a way to be reversable through the 256 screen values (so by travelling left or right, you will reach the starting screen 256 screens in either direction). Therefore, to create a seperate game map, you would need to change this algorithm or its seed value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE146 Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 How about just ditching that 1st level, and making a 2nd-level-only version of pitfall 2 on the 2600? Would that be even remotely possible? Sort of like how Miner 2049er did it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Slocum Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 There's currently no way to reproduce Pitfall II cartridges (and probably won't be for a while, if ever). So you'd only be able to play it on emulators, in which case I'd rather just play it on the 5200. Someone did try to hack the ROM into a new level layout at one point. Might be able to find it on Google. -paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCmodeler Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Well isn't the code totally different between the 2600 and the 5200? No. The 2600 version was directly ported to the 5200... and then modified for the different CPU. Because the programmer took the simple "cut and paste" approach, it gave him extra time to create the second game. Anyway, the result is that the 2600/5200 are nearly identical. re: Making Pitfall 2 carts... would it be possible to make Pitfall 2 without the music co-processor? No music, but still the same game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sku_u Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Just give in and buy a 5200. It's a superb system with an excellent library. The extra level in Pitfall II is just extra icing on a large cake! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Slocum Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 re: Making Pitfall 2 carts... would it be possible to make Pitfall 2 without the music co-processor? No music, but still the same game. The DPC chip does a lot more than just the music. The game would not work at all without it. -paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE146 Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Just give in and buy a 5200. It's a superb system with an excellent library. The extra level in Pitfall II is just extra icing on a large cake! Yeah but then you'd still have to play through the first part of Pitfall 2 to get to the 2nd Quest. I like the idea of having a dedicated 2600 "Pitfall II- 2nd Quest" cart. Ahhh but only...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sku_u Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Just give in and buy a 5200. It's a superb system with an excellent library. The extra level in Pitfall II is just extra icing on a large cake! Yeah but then you'd still have to play through the first part of Pitfall 2 to get to the 2nd Quest. That's part of the fun of Pitfall II. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE146 Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Just give in and buy a 5200. It's a superb system with an excellent library. The extra level in Pitfall II is just extra icing on a large cake! Yeah but then you'd still have to play through the first part of Pitfall 2 to get to the 2nd Quest. That's part of the fun of Pitfall II. ..which we've all done about a billion times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCmodeler Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 The DPC chip does a lot more than just the music. The game would not work at all without it. Just curious... what else does it do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Slocum Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 Just curious... what else does it do? I know it handles the sprite graphics, and I'm pretty sure it has the ability to do a swap of high and low nibbles of a byte. You can probably find more specifics searching here or the Stella archives. -paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susuwatari Posted February 3, 2004 Author Share Posted February 3, 2004 I'm curious too, what else did that chip do? I thought it was only for music. Since it'd be hard to add a second level, it may be easier to hack and make ithe second level on a stand alone cart rather than both levels on the same cart. Getting the enemies to behave in hacked version the same as 5200 version is another story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mos6507 Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 Oops...correction:There is no map data. The game uses an algorithm to create the screen value...whose bits determine what is there. This algorithm uses a "random" seed value...and is constructed in a way to be reversable through the 256 screen values (so by travelling left or right, you will reach the starting screen 256 screens in either direction). Therefore, to create a seperate game map, you would need to change this algorithm or its seed value. Pitfall 1 does it that way. Pitfall 2 stores most of its level data in a more traditional way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 That's in regards to Pitfall! A little confusion over the title of this thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mos6507 Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 I'm curious too, what else did that chip do? I thought it was only for music. Since it'd be hard to add a second level, it may be easier to hack and make ithe second level on a stand alone cart rather than both levels on the same cart. Getting the enemies to behave in hacked version the same as 5200 version is another story. David Crane explains this rather extensively in Stella at 20. But in a nutshell, think of the DPC chip like a memory indexer for the 2600. The 2600 is freed from having to manually increment indexes to memory. It can simply read from a fixed address and get back different data with each read. The DPC detects the read and exposes a new byte of data, like a stream. That way the program kernel can be highly simplified, which frees up enough time to do more changes to the registers per screen/line. In the case of the sound, because the graphics kernel is simple enough, the audio registers are fed with new values on every line also. Because a TV runs at 15KHZ, this is the resolution of digital audio data that can be delivered to the speakers, which is pretty high quality. The DPC produces the values which, collectively, sound like 3 notes mixed together at once, and in-tune, unlike the usual 2-voice out of tune music from the regular tone generators. Actually, I believe it's 3 tones on one voice, and the other voice is used for percussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCmodeler Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 think of the DPC chip like a memory indexer for the 2600. The 2600 is freed from having to manually increment indexes to memory. It can simply read from a fixed address and get back different data with each read. The DPC detects the read and exposes a new byte of data, like a stream. That way the program kernel can be highly simplified, which frees up enough time to do more changes to the registers per screen/line. Wow. And David Crane thought of this? Wow. He must be a genius. What is David Crane doing now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 Still programming. He was recently mentioned working on a new game for cell phones with other Acti-alumni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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