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emkay

I want your ears bleeding ;)

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Emkay - you've been getting some awesome sounds out of the little 8-bit.  Do you think you could do a reasonable conversion of this MOD?

 

Stephen Anderson

 

 

Actually, POKEY has some limitations. So you can us a max. of two voices, giving a hard noise for music. The mod needs three of them.

A "physical" thing is, that pokey mixes up two similar frequencies to one audible thingy, so you have to find a compromise.

 

So here is a first try... If someone wants to "optimize" it, for one POKEY and single speed... just don't fear ... it won't bite ;)

 

btw: After getting more into this - for me new- tune, I didn't find the "plot" of the tune yet.

So, any opinions about it? Requests? Feedback? :ponder:

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I remember my Atari beginnings in 1987-1993 ... all my musics was done in BASIC or later in MAC/65 assembler. Manually writing of tracks TRACK1 .BYTE 121,6,243,8,60,2  (notes, lengths) , song data .WORD TRACK1,TRACK20,TRACK11,TRACK , ... etc..

You don't guess what making music by this way is toilsome.  ;)  

So, it's logic, you can't judge RMT's colossal comfort enough. :D  

 

Oh no, I understand. That is why I and very appreciative of RMT. We can make awesome music with little effort now... because you have put most of the effort into RMT. :)

 

 

 

 

Sorry, but that doesn't make sense at all...

For what is a POKEY Tracker on PC good, when ATARI-user only are capable of using it? So they easily can create their music on the real machine, they don't need a POKEY Tracker on the PC.

It is even logical, when some "veterans" wannt to make pokey-music, they simply can use emulation and the tracker of "old times"...

 

So RMT is a PC Tracker to create pokey music (intentional), maybe some scene-related musicians will take a try with RMT, and after "all is to complicated" and weird sounding, they drop of any work after some tries.

... if you know what I am trying to explain.

 

A full POKEY Synth Tracker would give the ability of "easy using pokey" for making music, because a lot of known problems with chipsound -and they are known- it is possible to compensate most of them before some PC musician is trying to create good music results, without any knowledge in POKEY programming...

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??? only "true hardcore" atarians have setup real machine... but most of us use PC & emulation??? so what is the problem to use RMT?

 

the point was that raster used hex "composing"... i am sure that this approach will not push pokey "in your terms"....

 

i like RMT and the tunes... i don't care if it uses or utilises "all undocumented" features...

 

so a do appreciate PC tools instead of atari native ones... for me it's just quicker and better workflow... others might appreciate using atari native... but i prefer 100hz pc monitor instead of 50hz TV set...

 

just my 0.02$

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Hm....this version of CFT is better... imho

 

a bit weird, but it fits more into the "plot" of the original...i think

 

Let's see if we can do more finetuning...

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OK... an update for "CFT" ... which I still don't know what it means, or where it comes from :ponder:

 

(.... still on the search for a perfect vibrato on the bassline)

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forget this above ... it doesn't fit at all....

here is another version.

 

I think, I can't be done better with 4 voices... but, if someone wants to show me "another truth" ...

:ponder:

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Thanks for messing with that. It's not a bad approximation. I much prefer your Thermostat 7 dirty edit. Very clean sounds. Have you considered doing any stereo RMTs?

 

I have never done any music work, but I might take a look at RMT sometime. I'd love to test this on my real hardware, but I'm on a 60Hz NTSC machine - the timings all messed up. The songs play too fast.

 

Stephen Anderson

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I think, I can't be done better with 4 voices...

 

Maybe not "better" but it can be surely done at least listenable. No ofense, but your examples and experiments are IMO unlistenable. Sometimes there is interesting sound, but the whole "music" is in best case wierd if not crap.

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I think, I can't be done better with 4 voices...

 

Maybe not "better" but it can be surely done at least listenable. No ofense, but your examples and experiments are IMO unlistenable. Sometimes there is interesting sound, but the whole "music" is in best case wierd if not crap.

 

Many of them are really "crap", because I am not a professional musician.

 

But, especially "thermostat7", and the last versions of "GemX" and "12th Warrior" are the most nearest tunes to "real pokey music" and not only POKEY-tunes. Tatqoo and Raster did great with adapting the notations for "GemX" and "thermostat 7", but it is not understandable for me, why doing a cool Guitar-Sound like a detuned hammond organ.

The "12th warrior" really shows, what it means to have a Soundchip that can partially do as a SID (multiple waveforms) and a PAULA(4 voices).

Maybe... a 'musician in profession' can do more finetuning than I , they would be the most perfect music(... they are already ... but can be better though), one could hear played from ONE POKEY.

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Just another 4 channel conversion of a real cool tune. It's not finished so this time I call it beta...

There are lots of notes crossed on the channels that have to be fixed, so I really would appreciate a note exchange function ;)

 

Btw: The tune IS Adlib optimized and, perhaps, you may recognize how "close" it is to the original at some parts (already).

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Another Day, another search for the holy grail... em... sound ... :D

 

I'll release it at this state (including RMT file).

Partially it sounds a bit asian instead of "fremen" which makes it a bit more "nice".

Notes are track-corrected and you hear "more instruments" and sometimes 5 voices ;)

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It's an interesting thing, simple notes are sounding different on RMT, A800win and the real HW...

This version is at least more audible on the A800win emu.

And another percussion instrument is added...

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Another conclusion:

 

While trying to optimize the bass-sound for the tune, there are still some obstacles or unremovable barriers to go on further.

I think that the bass is overall a nice one, but the tune needs a "longer" sounding.

So while editing the sound there is always the 50Hz interference in the bass-tone.

One may believe it or not: It is the fixed 50Hz programming that causes the most "out of tune" sounding. The second cause is the volume...

If only the programming-time resolution was "higher":

An Idea would be to create the VBI routine playing notes at the beginning and at the end of the full VBI time. This would cause a listenable offset and removes the static 50Hz sounding...

 

Another thing is the "off real" emulation-sounding. So a RMT Player exists already. Wouldn't the possibility be nice, to edit the instruments via a front-end while the player plays the tune on the real machine and saving the data back?

 

 

enough of lamentation thoughts ;)

 

If anyone has an idea for a 'better to the tune fitting' sound for Instruments 7 and F at the current pokey setting....please feel free for a suggestion. Thanks.

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Hm... something completely different.

I am not shure to call it beta anymore.... :ponder:

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Interesting....

While the deep-soft tone is more in "the background" in RMT, in the A800win it has more accent.

... and now i am a bit more satisfied with it.

 

This type of sound is the sound Pokey is easily capable of when using 4 channels. And... perhaps ... with an "AdLib-Synth"-Tracker...

.. who knows ;)

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In this release I like

-the sounding of the "soft" basstone (even if not complete-able)

-the high notes (refrain)

-the cool drum

-the unique pokey effects

 

perhaps one can "hear" the -higher- sounding resolution, that is given for bass- and high-tones...

One who wants to make a more melodic tune, may use 3 channels with 16 bit, instead of 4 channels.

BTW:.... even the drum can be "fine-tuned"...

 

Did anyone recognize, the "anvil hitting hammer" sound? Because "all longer" sounds are more smooth, the POKEY effects are enhanced inside the tune.

 

@raster

What are the limitations of portamento in RMT exactly?

I did put it to the limits, but it seems not "fast" enough, when using deep notes...

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@raster

What are the limitations of portamento in RMT exactly?

I did put it to the limits, but it seems not "fast" enough, when using deep notes...

Please, see the manual. ;)

 

Envelope command (COMMAND parameter)

...

5 Set up portamento speed $X, step $Y (each $X vbi will be "volatile portamento frequency" shifted up or down by $Y value in a direction of actual frequency). If $XY=$00, then set current frequency directly to volatile portamento frequency.

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@raster

What are the limitations of portamento in RMT exactly?

I did put it to the limits, but it seems not "fast" enough, when using deep notes...

Please, see the manual. ;)

 

Envelope command (COMMAND parameter)

...

5 Set up portamento speed $X, step $Y (each $X vbi will be "volatile portamento frequency" shifted up or down by $Y value in a direction of actual frequency). If $XY=$00, then set current frequency directly to volatile portamento frequency.

 

That's how to use it...;)

For me it seems to be a separated controller. So what are the limitations of that controller? Especially at the deeper notes, it seems to stop somewhere. And, if setting the notation value to high (or to low) will turn the note off, instead of changing the portamento ...

Well... if its my mistake, you may show the corrected handling in the tunes bass-tone?

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That's how to use it...;)

For me it seems to be a separated controller. So what are the limitations of that controller? Especially at the deeper notes, it seems to stop somewhere. And, if setting the notation value to high (or to low) will turn the note off, instead of changing the portamento ...  

Well... if its my mistake, you may show the corrected handling in the tunes bass-tone?

I don't understand your question. Portamento is effect for slower transformation from one note to other.

So, frequency is shifted up or down to new note (i.e. shifting will stop on frequency of destination note).

For example: Note C-1 with instrument effect 5 00 => play note C-1 (frq 243) and init portamento to value 243.

Now Note C-2 with instrument effect 5 11 and portamento switch turn on => every 1/50 sec will frequency shifted up (from beginning value 243) to destination frequency value C-2 (121). That's all.

Or you can see the example songs/examples/likea64.rmt, there is portamento used.

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i appreciate your energy put into music... but i am not sure if it would not be better to work on g2f only... ;)

 

maybe some of the RMT musician (sack? samurai? raster?) will use some of the developed instruments... but the rest.... ;)

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i appreciate your energy put into music... but i am not sure if it would not be better to work on g2f only... ;)

 

 

The problem is, that the music I am suggesting, is not "wanted".

(And what makes me wondering is, that the absolutely out of tune thing "Gem'X" , that you have used in your Boinxx Beta, is called "nice" multiple times...)

So the last release of "fremens" is a nearly perfect mixture piece of a remarkable tune, including cool pokey sounding and the usable RMT features.

 

Splitting Music into two different pieces, there is:

 

a) nice melody

b) Art

 

 

The fremens Song isn't a Tune with a nice melody, but it is Art.

Tunes with a nice melody are done multiple times on the pokey, but I am missing the "Art".

So, while the original Song sounds "fremens" by the used samples, pokeys abilities with four channels makes it sound more "robots", but the tune is almost kept original. The tune isn't done to have a nice melody, but "to tell a story", as the original does... within another background.

 

 

 

maybe some of the RMT musician (sack? samurai? raster?) will use some of the developed instruments...  but the rest.... ;)

 

You're absolutely disgracing pokeys abilities of playing "real music", do you?

Perhaps it's my problem to find a pokey advancing notation, so I use predefined notations to show what's possible.... for people that are able to make music. But, on the other hand, I haven't heared even one piece of

such. And, I doubt to get something similar in the future. Remembering, the thread started in April 2004... without any result, exept Analmux's tune and Cybernoid's trial.

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I don't understand your question. Portamento is effect for slower transformation from one note to other.

 

 

And I am not shure if I am able to explain the problem in english ;)

 

(Portamento on)Setting the command of

 

533333333

100000000

811111111

 

works for a special way.

Trying to change the envelop is not giving the awaited results.

Setting the command new at the envelop

 

 

5333353333

1000010000

8111181111

 

Using this, gives a full "swap over" sounding.

In theory the first command and the second command should result almost in the same sounding, but it doesn't.

So, there must be some limitations.

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;) music, women and cars... leads to endless discussions... so if you are happy with it... it's fine... i have no problem with it...

8)

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(Portamento on)Setting the command of

533333333

100000000

811111111

works for a special way.

Trying to change the envelop is not giving the awaited results.

Setting the command new at the envelop

5333353333

1000010000

8111181111

Using this, gives a full "swap over" sounding.

In theory the first command and the second command should result almost in the same sounding, but it doesn't.

You have been used there command 5 18 two times, and before second command 5 18 there is 4 times command 3 01 which transpose up base note about 4 halftones.

So, if original portamento destination note was for example C-2 (frq 121), then you change it by second 5 18 command to note E-2 (frq 96), that's why it must sounding differently. :wink:

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So, if original portamento destination note was for example C-2 (frq 121), then you change it by second 5 18 command to note E-2 (frq 96), that's why it must sounding differently.  :wink:

 

 

That was my apprehension. It's not only a command for the update speed. OK.

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