emkay Posted June 10, 2004 Author Share Posted June 10, 2004 Another problem that causes some unwanted noise, is the fixed updating of the notes. Example: When trying to create a "new sounding" Instrument, you may try to change the envelope step by step... When going through an octave C1, D1... C2 the sound manipulaton is fixed at 50Hz(Pal VBI). When using a softsynth routine, the updating of the pitch is variable and the updating frequency is parallel to the played note.... higher or lower. Well, you can always try to use the VBI speed for a correct volume manipulation, but the updating of the pitch has to be variable on the envelope. It would be enough (for a first routine) to set C1 at 25 Hz and C2 at 50Hz or C2 at 25Hz and C3 at 50Hz a.s.o.... every defined octave will be more authentic. Has anyone an idea for putting this into RMT ... ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 Another problem that causes some unwanted noise' date=' is the fixed updating of the notes. Example: When trying to create a "new sounding" Instrument, you may try to change the envelope step by step... When going through an octave C1, D1... C2 the sound manipulaton is fixed at 50Hz(Pal VBI).[/quote'] But that's no problem as far as I can see, because pokey doesn't start playing a new pitch as soon as you write to a pitch register. I firstly finishes counting cycles before a soundwave rises or falls. So no unwanted noise, and softsynth would not be needed for that. Also, if softsynth uses timer IRQ's then you would again have the problem with g2f displays. However what COULD cause the problems you describe, is that when pokey registers are changed, you mostly change multiple registers (pitch/volume/filter-pitch/audctl etc.) and they can't be changed at the same time. Another thing: generator 2,4,6,12 can have slight differences in soundcolor (especially 4), and should perhaps be synced with register $d209 (??) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 10, 2004 Author Share Posted June 10, 2004 But that's no problem as far as I can see' date=' because pokey doesn't start playing a new pitch as soon as you write to a pitch register. I firstly finishes counting cycles before a soundwave rises or falls. So no unwanted noise, and softsynth would not be needed for that. [/quote'] Even if POKEY does as you described... Just keep in mind: a higher frequncy is played in more pulses before a lower frequency is played... in a time of 1/50 seconds. When trying to build a new sound by fast switching the pitch registers, the 50 Hz are building a "resonance" frequency. Some notes are more influenced than others. This is enough to build disharmonics into an octave. On the other hand... Using a variable "resonance frequency" changing for every note parallel to the pitch, will create a "new" sounding on the full octave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 When trying to build a new sound by fast switching the pitch registers' date=' the 50 Hz are building a "resonance" frequency.[/quote'] I don't seem to understand. Emkay, please can you illustrate on that? Maybe a figure or something. ..and another question: why should resonances play such an important role in detuning the sound?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 11, 2004 Author Share Posted June 11, 2004 When trying to build a new sound by fast switching the pitch registers' date=' the 50 Hz are building a "resonance" frequency.[/quote'] I don't seem to understand. Emkay' date=' please can you illustrate on that? Maybe a figure or something. ..and another question: why should resonances play such an important role in detuning the sound??[/quote'] It's hard to explain....But, do you remember this Song? It uses 200Hz updatings(4x50HzVBI) and a faster volume update... the soundeffects are built by using this "resonance" intentionally... This time the volume changes are more important for building the sounds, but you may hear the difference in the pitch-changing on the envelope at this higher speed. When playing around with the updating speeds (1-4) in RMT you may recognize what I am trying to explain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 14, 2004 Author Share Posted June 14, 2004 Heck... I wish I could fintune this more in RMT... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 22, 2004 Author Share Posted June 22, 2004 When listening to the "Klavier" Testsong... please pay attention that : - the first pattern is played by setting one different pitch at the filter ... not at the note. Changing the filter gives another octave... and allows better finetuning and free variations while playing a note. So to set a note more precisely, you would have to create an instrument for every note? ... and for the song thousands of instruments? can this be true? The 2nd pattern plays one instrument with two different notes. The range of "similar sounding" instruments is bigger when playing with the filter .... when playing the note only, an instrument loses its focus after 3 different pitches.... Btw: I did some enhancement in "Drama" (I don't know why I just don't give up "optimizing" with this pity of emulation...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 If you just wait two weeks when my exams are over I've got a big summer break. Then maybe I'll code an instrument editor to be run on the real atari. Emkay, pick up your real hardware and connect it. That will be a whole lot simpler. good luck, gotta study Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 24, 2004 Author Share Posted June 24, 2004 Found just another bug in the RMT Runtime... sometimes the 1.79MHz feature is not disabled even when an instrument is played with disabled 1.79MHZ ... But this time the result is sounding interesting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 25, 2004 Author Share Posted June 25, 2004 Is anyone able to patch RMT ? It would be much helpful if it is possible to set the AUDCTL value at the positions where the filter can be set... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 25, 2004 Author Share Posted June 25, 2004 Here's kinda remix.... unfinished Sorry guys... but i like it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 26, 2004 Author Share Posted June 26, 2004 Here is another "more extended" Remix... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 26, 2004 Author Share Posted June 26, 2004 Here is another "more extended" Remix... Why the heck wasn't it uploaded?... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 26, 2004 Author Share Posted June 26, 2004 Another trick for more reliable sounds is to add random but controlled noise to the main sound.... Has anyone an idea to put this into machinecode ... without variable updating? shurely not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 Another trick for more reliable sounds is to add random but controlled noise to the main sound....Has anyone an idea to put this into machinecode ... without variable updating? shurely not... explain a bit more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 26, 2004 Author Share Posted June 26, 2004 Another trick for more reliable sounds is to add random but controlled noise to the main sound....Has anyone an idea to put this into machinecode ... without variable updating? shurely not... explain a bit more When you have listended to the "drama" tune you recognize a voice that is sounding like C64... but after hearing it more than one time, you recognize it as "out of tune"... it is because the "ear" gets a focus at the sound ... in addition the pokey registers going to build "not played" sounds. I had explained this a short time ago...: Build a variation of the filter-settings... in timings that are depending on the played note with a pre-defined range of variations and set the pitches randomly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 28, 2004 Author Share Posted June 28, 2004 What still makes me wonder is : Why is the Flute-sound not to be re-created.... even some testings with the "more accurate" ATARI800Win 4" is not giving the wanted result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 29, 2004 Author Share Posted June 29, 2004 So... we have the possibility to play deeper notes (15KHz) and we have the chance to play high notes the same time on one pokey with the following settings: Using one channel at 1,79MHz with a generator "2" "c" or "e" -Generator two is the most linear one -Generator "c" and "e" needs a pickup of generated notes for sorting them to a playable octave. ... using gen. "2" is possible in RMT without any problems Using channel 1 and 3 at 1,79MHz with filtering enabled -not truely usable in every Tracker Using 16 Bit with one channel at 1,79MHz and/or the "bass" Generator at 16Bit ...always usable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 30, 2004 Author Share Posted June 30, 2004 A very interesting thing is: When using 1,79MHz there is never a problem with those "not played sounds" Even when using "c" or "e" generators they are sounding allways the same... Try sorting the "c" sounds (at 1,79MHz) for a playable octave and you would have a clean violin sounding on one voice without any "breaks" or "clicks".. In theory , when it is possible to freely change AUDCTL, it is possible to build a filtered sound from C0 to C8 for one voice...and it is always possible to play 2 channels with percussions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted July 5, 2004 Author Share Posted July 5, 2004 I still wonder... If a "non-profession musician" like emkay can do songs like "drama" with one pokey at 50Hz VBI speed... what can a musician do with this? Note: It will always be a "Testsong" because it doesn't sound 100% the same on the real HW... but it is very close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted July 12, 2004 Author Share Posted July 12, 2004 Simulating "more voices" by fast switching the instruments is ... perhaps... nothing new. This experimental does use the "fastest possible" change between 15kHz and 1,79MHz by changing the instruments... Additionally this may show how the sounding of the POKEY filtering can be improved by fast switching between 15/64kHz & 1,79MHz... I do hope it does show it BTW: For Titlescreen-Music there would be a voice left for "softsynth" sounds... But this time it is again one Pokey at 50Hz VBI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schmutzpuppe Posted July 14, 2004 Share Posted July 14, 2004 Simulating "more voices" by fast switching the instruments is ... perhaps... nothing new. This experimental does use the "fastest possible" change between 15kHz and 1,79MHz by changing the instruments... Additionally this may show how the sounding of the POKEY filtering can be improved by fast switching between 15/64kHz & 1,79MHz... I do hope it does show it BTW: For Titlescreen-Music there would be a voice left for "softsynth" sounds... But this time it is again one Pokey at 50Hz VBI. This sounds really experimental but it has very interessing sounds. I hope some other musicans will take a deeper look at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted July 16, 2004 Author Share Posted July 16, 2004 I want more blood May I mention that it is possible to create something that was completely not supported by the creation tool.... or may I not ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 emkay, can you post some RMT or instrument files, then others might experiment with your instrument settings and create something more musically. While the sounds are very impressive (I must admit) BUT the music is still out of tune it doesn't wow me that much.....do you HAVE to sacrifice tonal purity for interesting instruments??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted July 17, 2004 Author Share Posted July 17, 2004 emkay, can you post some RMT or instrument files, then others might experiment with your instrument settings and create something more musically. While the sounds are very impressive (I must admit) BUT the music is still out of tune it doesn't wow me that much.....do you HAVE to sacrifice tonal purity for interesting instruments??? Well... I am not shure if we talk about the same "out of tune". But it is "somehow my style". The instruments are more "in tune" than a huge potion of songs in the ASMA. Perhaps you recognize a "out of tune", because the notes are only a "bit" out of tune and not several octaves? Or you are talking about the differencies in sounding on the emulation and the real HW? Can you try to explain? After listening to the Grayscale compo, I am very shure it doesn't make sense to hold on to this thread any longer. There are some really nice tunes in the contest, but nothing "outstanding" or comparable to my experiments. But I will continue to search for a way to optimize the sounding of "drama". Well (again ) .... If a musician is interested in Co-working I will shurely help as good as I can in optimizing the soundquality of "his" song. As you can see ... the "G2F" Thread that I had started did work well and there are many results due to many interested people. This thread is like talking to myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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