Cheap ST systems?

[liquidcross]

I'd love to have an ST, but they seem to go for good amounts of cash on eBay...at least lately. Do they always fetch a higher price, or are they easier to find elsewhere at a lower one? I've seen some (relatively) inexpensive 520STs...but I don't know if those are any good.

[tjlazah]

Just grab a nice 520ST setup. Just make sure the external drive you do get is Double Sided and not Single Sided. SF314 is the model to look for. You will be able to play most games on it as most required 512k to run. Oh make sure it has TOS in ROM. As far as the monitor any RGB will suffice. If you need a cable made contact Redmond Cable.

[liquidcross]

The 520STs I found had TOS 1.0 in ROM, I believe. I know I'd need 1.02(?), but I'm not sure how to go about finding the upgrades.

 

Also...can the 520STs hold an internal HD, or do you need an external model?

[atarianer2003]

TOS 1.02 is built-in in later 1040 ST's and in early Mega ST Computers. The latest versions of 1040ST and MEGA ST have TOS 1.04 on board.

 

The 260ST, 520ST and 1040ST computers cannot hold an internal HDD - you'll need a SH20x or a Megafile Harddisk or something from third-party-manufacturers (Profex i.e. - DON'T TAKE A VORTEX HDD). The Mega ST can hold one internal HD with a special Upgrade-Kit.

 

Mike

[tjlazah]

The 520STs I found had TOS 1.0 in ROM, I believe. I know I'd need 1.02(?), but I'm not sure how to go about finding the upgrades.

 

Why do you need 1.2?

[tjlazah]

The 520STs I found had TOS 1.0 in ROM, I believe. I know I'd need 1.02(?), but I'm not sure how to go about finding the upgrades.

 

Why do you need 1.2? You can always get an upgrade from dealers like Best or B&C in the US or others in EU.

 

Your best bet is a small external SCSI HD enclosure and a Link 2 adaptor. I got mine from B&C.

[Atari_Only]

YES, the 520STFM and the 1040stf and STE can use a internal hard drive. I have done this on a 1040STE using Marios IDE interface.

 

http://www.gem.win.co.nz/mb/atarihw/ide.html

 

It was easy to install and worked great the first time booting. I used a 2.5" 500meg laptop hard drive that I mounted inside the ST case. I actually installed the interface to check it out and write a small reveiw about it and posted it on my web site(now gone). The link above should take you to marios page. I do not know if he is still making them or selling but the page is still up.

 

There is also a guy that makes a ide interface for the cartriidge port. Dont know if he has any or still makes them. I need to check it out.

 

Don

[Albert]

YES, the 520STFM and the 1040stf and STE can use a internal hard drive.  I have done this on a 1040STE using Marios IDE interface.  

http://www.gem.win.co.nz/mb/atarihw/ide.html

 

That's awesome, I wasn't aware that a laptop 2.5" drive could be shoehorned into a 520STFM / 1040ST, but it does make sense since they are so small. A 1040ST with a built-in HD would be great.

 

..Al

[liquidcross]

The 520STs I found had TOS 1.0 in ROM, I believe. I know I'd need 1.02(?), but I'm not sure how to go about finding the upgrades.

 

Why do you need 1.2? You can always get an upgrade from dealers like Best or B&C in the US or others in EU.

I heard you need 1.02 to maximize compatibility with games, apps, etc.

[tjlazah]

Are those IDE adaptors still avail to buy??? I'd like to get one for my 1040STE.

[atarian1]

One note on those IDE adapters: Make sure you hot glue or solder the adapter in the CPU socket. I have one of these adapters and one day, it popped out of the CPU socket. Well, I stuck it back in, and it must have permanently loosened or bent back to socket pins because now I get random crashes. I tried bending back the socket pins, but I still get random crashes. My STE worked fine before using the IDE adapter, so I'm pretty sure the culprit is the CPU socket connection. One day, I'm going to have to desolder the old CPU socket and install a new one (What a nightmare!) Then I'm going to try soldering the IDE interface to the socket so that I don't have to stick anything into the CPU socket again.

 

TOS 1.2. I ask too, why? That is the WORST TOS version to use for games. I've had games work with TOS 1.4 and not 1.2. For games, it's best to stick with TOS 1.0. I've never heard of a game not working on TOS 1.0.

 

Which begats another question. This "TOS 1.2 is the best for games" thing keeps popping up once in a while. Where do people get this info?! I've used STs almost since when they first came out, and from experience as an ST game player, I stick by my account that TOS 1.2 has the worst game compatibility of the ST TOS 1.0x-es. I'd like to see evidence otherwise.

[oesii]

This is from the Steem FAQ and I've seen it in almost every ST FAQ:

 

Q. A program I have just doesn't work on Steem.



A. There are a number of things to try.



. Use TOS 1.02, this is the most compatible version (although if it is an STE-only program you should try 1.62). It is best not to use US TOS because the 60Hz screen mode causes problems for some games.

 

Who knows if it's true

[Greenious]

Speaking out of my own experience.

 

TOS 1.04 is the one you want. Especially if you intend to use a harddrive and other expansions, since older TOS are quite limited in partition size and also got a few bugs that can pop up and bite you in the ass.

 

btw, I think the main difference between 1.00 and 1.02 was that blitterchip support appeared in 1.02.

 

When it comes to game compatibility... well, TOS 1.xx generally works a lot better than 2.0x.

 

I'm no big gamer, but to be honest, the few games I haven't been able to run on TOS 1.04 are not worth the floppy they reside on. Besides, the cracked versions often do work on later TOS.

 

TOS 2.06 is great, and if you got an STE it is quite easy to fit both 1.62 & 2.06 in your machine and enjoy both. Also, another reason that games doesn't work is that you got 4mb in your machine. (long story short: All mem access above 4mb generates buserror, whereas a 1 mb machine with mem access above 1 mb won't)

 

You can always fit both 1.00 and 1.04 in it much the same way you fit 1.62 and 2.06 in an STE.

 

I got DualTOS (1.62 & 2.06) in my STE and it works great. Fairly easy to fit. I can make them upon request, and I can make dualtos for STs aswell.

 

Fitting TOS 2.06 in ST is trickier, but doable. But you must map the TOS in a different memory area so it takes a bit of work.

 

The cartridge IDE interface someone mentioned is (was?) made by a guy named Paskud in Poland. http://www.rsi.pl/paskud/ I had one of those, but sold it to someone more needy than me. (Besides, I have a SCSI interface, so I didn't really need it) Worked great, but was considerably slower, especially on writing, than "normal" interfaces, and it also had the drawback that you couldn't boot from it.

[atarian1]

That TOS 1.2 recommendation must be for STeem only. I guess it's an emulator thing.

 

If you use a REAL ST, I'm sure anyone uses it enough will find that TOS 1.0 is the best for games and 1.04 for apps and games (that's also without resorting to a TOS 2.06 adapter board).

[Atari_Only]

I dont think there is a way to solder the board to the socket. Theres no room and there is even less room for solder. The STF version looks like it could be soldered but I doubt anything like that could be done on the STE with the square socket. The hot glue is the best solution to keep it in place.

[Atari_Only]

I received a quick email back from the designer of the Atari ST IDE interface. He told me that there are not any more for sale. Hopefully some systems become available for purchase with this interface. I beleive there is still another company that make the same sort of set up.

[Major Havoc 2049]

Don't waste you time with a 520ST, as there are too many good games the require 1MB. I'm sure you could get a 1040STf for cheap on ebay.

[liquidcross]

Don't waste you time with a 520ST, as there are too many good games the require 1MB.  I'm sure you could get a 1040STf for cheap on ebay.

I wish. The few I've seen go for well over $75-$100.

[oesii]

If you have a few weeks or a couple of months, be patient. I got a 1040ST for $10 and a 520ST for $5 just last year. The prices haven't gone up too much there just may not be too many on the market recently but there probably will be soon.

[atarianer2003]

Don't waste you time with a 520ST, as there are too many good games the require 1MB.  I'm sure you could get a 1040STf for cheap on ebay.

I wish. The few I've seen go for well over $75-$100.

 

Huh, so much Here in Germany some sellers can be lucky if they sell their 1040 ST with monitor for 1 or 2 Euros, some 520 STs were not sold in the last time...

 

BTW: Does anybody know where I can get one of those IDE adaptors?

 

Mike

[liquidcross]

If you have a few weeks or a couple of months, be patient.  I got a 1040ST for $10 and a 520ST for $5 just last year.  The prices haven't gone up too much there just may not be too many on the market recently but there probably will be soon.

Oh, I'll definitely be able to wait. If prices don't come way down, I can't get one. End of story.

 

Huh, so much   Here in Germany some sellers can be lucky if they sell their 1040 ST with monitor for 1 or 2 Euros, some 520 STs were not sold in the last time...

Man, you guys have all the luck! It's shame I wouldn't be able to use a PAL system.

[Greenious]

Huh, so much   Here in Germany some sellers can be lucky if they sell their 1040 ST with monitor for 1 or 2 Euros, some 520 STs were not sold in the last time...

Man, you guys have all the luck! It's shame I wouldn't be able to use a PAL system.

 

Ofcourse you can! as long as you don't use the antenna, you should have no problem at all using it. Especially if you grab a monitor at the same time. The main problem is probably the PSU though, since europeans use 230 volt. I saw that Best Electronics had a "buyers guide" on their website for US ppl looking to buy used Ataris from europe, and I don't think PAL/NTSC was mentioned as a major problem for STs and Jaguars. (OTOH it is for older Atari consoles/computers)

 

75-100 USD isn't too bad for a used atari anyway, considering what a new one once costed, and that it will keep it's value for the future. Old PCs get worthless, but Ataris probably won't lose that much value anymore, if anything, they probably will get more expensive. Even if you do get one cheap from europe, the cost in the end, with freight & getting a new PSU etc will probably be just as much, if not more.

 

And regarding IDE interface for ST/STE. The are a few DIY projects out there about it. So if you are just a little bit handy with the soldering iron, you should be able to make one for yourself.

 

I'm going to make one for my own ST, when I have the time to get hold of the circuitry that I need. I guess I could make a few more, but I doubt that anyone really wants to pay me what it cost to make them. Basically, it would be charity work for me, which I really doesn't mind that much, but I would only make one batch.

 

The problem is that the market for hardware for ST/STE is so small, that nobody wants to invest time & money to massproduce them. And when someone actually do it, ppl complain that it is too expensive. Some people do anyway, because of the fun of it, and the joy of helping out the community, but when it comes down to choosing between work, family & making ST hardware, the ST is at the short end...

[liquidcross]

TOS 2.06 is great, and if you got an STE it is quite easy to fit both 1.62 & 2.06 in your machine and enjoy both.

How do you use two TOSs in one system?

[oesii]

You install the second, after-market TOS and then you can install a switch to choose which one to boot from. I have TOS 1.02 and 1.04 on my 1040STf plus I also have a toggle switch for 8mhz and 16mhz

 

Here's a page that should have some of the instructions, I'm having problems accessing it right now but I did have it bookmarked:

 

http://atari4ever.free.fr/hardware/tos.html

[Greenious]

TOS 2.06 is great, and if you got an STE it is quite easy to fit both 1.62 & 2.06 in your machine and enjoy both.

How do you use two TOSs in one system?

 

Programming both TOS into EPROMs that can handle it (Double size, ie 27c020), and connecting a switch to +5 volt, ground and the highest adresspin on the EPROMs.

 

Very simple, and very useful.