justclaws Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 Hmmm... I have a question. I was just wondering... somebody is selling a copy of Blue Lightning on Ebay, as if often the case, and describes it as "so bad you would [not] believe [it]! buy it for a laugh" http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...item=8104070365 So my question is... what is the (hypothetical) WORST game you'd buy? --- Club Drive - The Lost Missions (e.g. Club Drive with all the faults, the awful handling, jittery graphics, but all new (bad) locations maybe, such as the upstairs of a house, a New York park, and a racing track. --- Trevor McFur - In the Galaxy Beyond (e.g. Trevor McFur with new graphics, some new (but similarly unbalanced weapons) and more of the same type of "last minute ideas for a boss" style end-game levels! --- Night Thunder - (e.g. Blue Lightning clone with night missions, but the same crummy 2D as 3D cardboard cut-out graphics and a whole host of new missions. The same awful voice acting included.) Obviously if any of these games really existed die-hard collectors would snap them up, but I wonder for most people, what would be a game that they would snap up today. Would you still buy Blue Lightning today if it was released, and would you really pay $50? Let's be clear - no wish lists for Club Racer (e.g. Club Drive with all bugs fixed, 2-player mode, and texture mapping) I'm talking about the very same games that were worst on Jaguar (or were even OK games, but you didn't want to show your friends because they were too inept and might damage your Jaguar's reputation) either released new today, or in a new version with same faults. Imagine if Telegames said tomorrow that they have Graham Gooch cricket (complete with 256 colour graphics and low-res graphics) would you really be keen to have it, or would you be only buying it because you'll buy anything as a collector. Well? Just wondering... I'd buy Blue Lightning still if I didn't have it, not as a collector, but because I think it's quite fun actually... not sure if I'd buy Night Thunder though for all night missions, but the pop-up and near horizon would work better at night... lots of things could be disguised and excused perhaps then!!! I bet you'd not buy them for your Xbox would you? If a port of Blue Lightning came out, would you buy it, glitches and all? No? If you answer no, I guess you're not so keen on the game really! The worst I game I own is on N64 - it must be Carmaggedon! What's the worst game you own on any platform, and would you like to see it on the Jaguar? Hypothetically only of course! Just wondering... JustClaws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaManFan Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 Air Cars I suppose. I know it's absolute crap but if it completed my collection, hey why not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrummy Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 JustClaws, If it were not for the "collectible" factor honestly I would not own a lot of the games and systems that I own. Everyone has their own mania and I have several myself. I must admit that bad games on a new system do not have the same appeal as bad games on a system that you love for some reason. I think that on GameBoy Advance there have been some real stinkers, like : Milenium Falcon for GBA, just unplayably bad SUPERMAN on the N64 anything on the Ngage 3-d motocross on the jag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 Well, all I can say is I never thought BL was bad, and neither did any of my friends I showed it off too years ago, when it first came out, everyone LOVED it! I'm talking about non Atari/Jaguar fans who had PSX's and such and thought this game rocked and was better than their PSX games of the time! Just goes to show how much of whether a game is good or not is merely opinion. I guess a game I'd never show people when I'm showing my Jaguar would be Club Drive or White men Can't Jump or Double Dragon V. I have the first two and have avoided buying DDV like the plague, but will eventually only because I'm a collector. if I wasn't, I'd never have bought any of the above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip_Cannon Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Justclaws is talking about games that didn't exist and are horribly bad.. But IF they did exist would you pick it up anyway? So a sequel to.. say... Kasumi Ninja? Kasumi Ninja 2 - The Ugly Ones. More of the same sh!tty controls except this time around the characters are even uglier and have more questionable secret moves (like Angus's Crotch Rocket). New hyperrendering methods allow such intricate detail on figures that you can now see even more blood spray out of every pore of the body! Expect the same boring endings and cheesy moves throughout! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justclaws Posted May 6, 2004 Author Share Posted May 6, 2004 Hello, Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Justclaws is talking about games that didn't exist and are horribly bad.. But IF they did exist would you pick it up anyway? Yes, exactly! Like Carmageddon on Jaguar for instance. If it's that bad on the N64, with it's higher polygon rendering abilities, just imagine how bad it could be ported to Jaguar... So a sequel to.. say... Kasumi Ninja? Kasumi Ninja 2 - The Ugly Ones. Now you're getting the idea. Normally people fantasize about the games they have being better, I'd be quite interested to know if people really fantasize about their worst games as well... weird! Just imagine if new Atari Jaguar games were still coming from Atari, with the same questionable decisions being made. It's not about improving them, it's about looking again at old judgements! Cheers, JustClaws! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory DG Posted May 7, 2004 Share Posted May 7, 2004 How about: Skylar's Dance Party? Complete with witty sayings like, "Where did *YOU* learn to dance?" and "Avoid the dance floor." Oh, that cwazy Skylar! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+davidcalgary29 Posted May 7, 2004 Share Posted May 7, 2004 Dragon's Lair 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walter_J64bit Posted May 7, 2004 Share Posted May 7, 2004 DD5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted May 7, 2004 Share Posted May 7, 2004 Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Justclaws is talking about games that didn't exist and are horribly bad.. But IF they did exist would you pick it up anyway? So a sequel to.. say... Kasumi Ninja? Kasumi Ninja 2 - The Ugly Ones. More of the same sh!tty controls except this time around the characters are even uglier and have more questionable secret moves (like Angus's Crotch Rocket). New hyperrendering methods allow such intricate detail on figures that you can now see even more blood spray out of every pore of the body! Expect the same boring endings and cheesy moves throughout! Ok, ok, I get it now. So, I guess my WORST (hypethetical) game that i'd buy would be Painter 2. Now, before people start throwing rocks at me, really, think about it. Painter is undoubtedly a fun game and a great addition to the Jaguar, but if it had been released back in the day an official release from Atari, everyone would laugh, I mean, this game with it's extrememly simplistic graphics, wouldn't even be pushing the 2600 hardware. It would have been laughed at by all the magazines etc. So, Painter 2 would be my (hypethetical) worst game I'd buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper_Eye Posted May 7, 2004 Share Posted May 7, 2004 But take a look at Zoop and it's simplicity. It dosn't change the fact that Zoop is an awesome game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip_Cannon Posted May 7, 2004 Share Posted May 7, 2004 Zoop is a fun game but hardly stretches the limits of the Jag... Neither would Painter 2 for that matter.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted May 7, 2004 Share Posted May 7, 2004 But take a look at Zoop and it's simplicity. It dosn't change the fact that Zoop is an awesome game. Have you even seen Painter? Zoop looks like a state-of-the-art graphic masterpiece compared to Painter. Also, why are game like Club Drive thought of as bad? it's the graphics, not the game play, CD is fun to play too! Most of the "bad" Jaguar games being bad is based on graphics except in a few cases like Kasumi Ninja where it's the controls that suck. People hate Blue Lightning because they dislike the "cardboard cutout" style 2D come 3D graphics, from what I understand, although I thought they were fine for the type of game it was (AfterBurner clone), other games like it were the same way...so I stand by my choice, Painter IS the worst graphics on any released Jaguar game, finished or not and that is a fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrant Posted May 7, 2004 Share Posted May 7, 2004 I'd actually say Painter is elegant, rather than simplistic... but I guess one man's carefully designed minimalist house just looks unfinished to another man... to each their own... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocko Posted May 7, 2004 Share Posted May 7, 2004 But take a look at Zoop and it's simplicity. It dosn't change the fact that Zoop is an awesome game. Have you even seen Painter? Zoop looks like a state-of-the-art graphic masterpiece compared to Painter. Also, why are game like Club Drive thought of as bad? it's the graphics, not the game play, CD is fun to play too! Most of the "bad" Jaguar games being bad is based on graphics except in a few cases like Kasumi Ninja where it's the controls that suck. People hate Blue Lightning because they dislike the "cardboard cutout" style 2D come 3D graphics, from what I understand, although I thought they were fine for the type of game it was (AfterBurner clone), other games like it were the same way...so I stand by my choice, Painter IS the worst graphics on any released Jaguar game, finished or not and that is a fact. So, you like Zoop and Club Drive? I am sorry me too... What about I-war and maybe Air Cars, or Cybermorph? Are you fans of those too? I am... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted May 8, 2004 Share Posted May 8, 2004 But take a look at Zoop and it's simplicity. It dosn't change the fact that Zoop is an awesome game. Have you even seen Painter? Zoop looks like a state-of-the-art graphic masterpiece compared to Painter. Also, why are game like Club Drive thought of as bad? it's the graphics, not the game play, CD is fun to play too! Most of the "bad" Jaguar games being bad is based on graphics except in a few cases like Kasumi Ninja where it's the controls that suck. People hate Blue Lightning because they dislike the "cardboard cutout" style 2D come 3D graphics, from what I understand, although I thought they were fine for the type of game it was (AfterBurner clone), other games like it were the same way...so I stand by my choice, Painter IS the worst graphics on any released Jaguar game, finished or not and that is a fact. So, you like Zoop and Club Drive? I am sorry me too... What about I-war and maybe Air Cars, or Cybermorph? Are you fans of those too? I am... I'm not quite sure which one of us you are directing your questions at, but I'll answer them. Zoop-I own the game, but have only ever played it once, I just don't care for this type of game much. Club Drive-I enjoyed this game back in the day, even though I too, thought the graphics/engine to be subpar for the Jaguar, but it was fun to play, I was reminded of it when I first played Revolt RC racing on the DC though. Certainly not something I'd show off for the Jag and I hardly ever pop it in anymore. I-war-Love it, must of played it through at lest a dozen times, I especially love the bonus levels going through the "Iway" tunnels (FPS view is the only way to go). Aircars-I enjoyed it, definately a minus as well in the graphics department, but I had enough fun to play it through twice before selling it, I no longer own it, but plan on buying several copies for networking sooner or later. Cybermorph-I always enjoyed this game and still pop it in once in a while. But Cybermorph won game of the month in one of the gaming mags back in early '94, I think it was EGM or DieHard...I thought it had cool graphics then, and still like it's sureal style today. This is not to say that I don't think that all the games generally considered to be the Jag's best are better than these games, but I find I enjoy a number of titles that the majority find terrible for whatever reason (usually reasons I considered insignificant). If someone's Hypothetical worst Jag game was a Cybermorph 2, not Battlemorph, but the same game as Cybermorph but with different levels, and it really came out, I'd buy it in a heartbeat and play the hell out of it while their copy collects dust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justclaws Posted May 8, 2004 Author Share Posted May 8, 2004 Also, why are game like Club Drive thought of as bad? it's the graphics, not the game play, CD is fun to play too! Personally I think Club Drive graphics are OK (they would just have benefited from a bit of work to make sure the polygon clipping was better) but the problem for me is the camera, and the physics. The car is far too light, it all too easily flips over, and you can easily get into stupid situations where the car keeps falling off some edge, and the game puts it back on, and it falls off, and the game puts it back on, and it falls off... and you just have to sit and watch while the camera has a heart attack! Most of the "bad" Jaguar games being bad is based on graphics except in a few cases like Kasumi Ninja where it's the controls that suck. I agree that the Club Drive polygon models are farcical though. The graphics used for the occasional texture mapped surface are dire too, (placeholder art left in the game due to Tramiel release date pressure in my opinion), and would have been better omitted - apart from the pong on the TV. :-) People hate Blue Lightning because they dislike the "cardboard cutout" style 2D come 3D graphics, Really, the game was a graphical loser from day#1, it did not look as good as the Lynx version did, and that was what people were expecting at the time... Lynx Blue Lightning converted to Jaguar, taking advantage of the extra power... but instead the game looks worse, and the gameplay is no less simplistic. I remember the day of the JagCD release, and the feedback on the old Jaguar mailing-list was very very negative to BL. (That's *not* to say I don't enjoy playing it though, but it is a bit masochistic.) Some better attention to graphics would have helped though, they are just badly (hand) drawn in most cases - they could have been twice as good, more variety too, had the graphics for the destroyed versions been omitted completely - they'd have saved half the memory space for graphics - each item could simply have been replaced by a fireball (or better a fireball placed in front of the target graphic,) that stayed on screen a little longer - because most of the time the burnt-out tank or ship disappears off the bottom of the screen very quickly in any case. Imagine if they'd made each graphic a slightly larger pre-rendered (or photo sourced) half-frontal image, rather more like an iso-metric 3D image) and they'd cut-down the size of the big background graphics. (Also imagine if the colour scheme was a bit more subtle and planes had another couple of frames of animation to make movement more realistic - achieved by creating graphics for only half the angles and setting the mirror bit on each sprite when it's necessary - meaning no more RAM used.) Imagine if trees and rocks were photo sourced too! That sort of design decision in my opinion is what so disappointed... and why Blue Lightning as a game is fun but fundamentally flawed at a graphics level where Club Drive is fatally flawed by physics... Cheers, JustClaws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocko Posted May 8, 2004 Share Posted May 8, 2004 But take a look at Zoop and it's simplicity. It dosn't change the fact that Zoop is an awesome game. Have you even seen Painter? Zoop looks like a state-of-the-art graphic masterpiece compared to Painter. Also, why are game like Club Drive thought of as bad? it's the graphics, not the game play, CD is fun to play too! Most of the "bad" Jaguar games being bad is based on graphics except in a few cases like Kasumi Ninja where it's the controls that suck. People hate Blue Lightning because they dislike the "cardboard cutout" style 2D come 3D graphics, from what I understand, although I thought they were fine for the type of game it was (AfterBurner clone), other games like it were the same way...so I stand by my choice, Painter IS the worst graphics on any released Jaguar game, finished or not and that is a fact. So, you like Zoop and Club Drive? I am sorry me too... What about I-war and maybe Air Cars, or Cybermorph? Are you fans of those too? I am... I'm not quite sure which one of us you are directing your questions at, but I'll answer them. Actually, I was asking you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagMX Posted May 8, 2004 Share Posted May 8, 2004 id start off by saying any new game thats released, no matter how bad it is, id buy - for the jag i love getting and playing everything - no matter how bad it is like DDV but to make a real answer to your question id have to say: Charlies Blast Territory - i had tried out that game on the N64 and that game has to be one of the TOP worst games ever made - but if it were made for the jag id definitly buy it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocket Posted May 8, 2004 Share Posted May 8, 2004 I would buy Club Drive 2 in a second Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocko Posted May 8, 2004 Share Posted May 8, 2004 I would buy Club Drive 2 in a second Werent they actually making one, but it never made it due to the fall of the Jag? I thought I saw info on Cyber Roach, but I guess not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 I would buy Club Drive 2 in a second Werent they actually making one, but it never made it due to the fall of the Jag? I thought I saw info on Cyber Roach, but I guess not There was supposedly going to be a "spiritial" successor to Club Drive called Automaniacs, but I don't know if it was going to use the original graphic engine or a completely new one. Anyway, some pictures were released, which I'm pretty sure were just some photoshop mock-ups anyway and nothing ever came of it. This is probably what you saw and read about on Cyber Roach's site. This was one of those post-Atari-developer vaporware games that helped to jade the Jaguar communities attitude with skepticism about the validity of anounced Jaguar titles in development. Of course there were many such incidents in the first few years after Atari. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Havoc 2049 Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 ohh ya, ooh ya, Fight for Life 2! Junior Strikes Back! Club Drive was awesome and Club Drive 2 would have been more of the same madness. For those who say the controls suck in Club Drive, I guess you just don't have the skills to dial into the controls. The Hot Wheels/Matchbox physics are spot on! Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochman Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 I enjoyed some of the club drive lvls once I got control down - as for my vote, it goes to: Battlesphere Platinum Scatbox - or 'the right way to do it' for a MSRP of $400 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 ohh ya, ooh ya, Fight for Life 2! Junior Strikes Back! Club Drive was awesome and Club Drive 2 would have been more of the same madness. For those who say the controls suck in Club Drive, I guess you just don't have the skills to dial into the controls. The Hot Wheels/Matchbox physics are spot on! Todd I agree, that's what I was implying with my reference to Revolt RC racing on the Dreamcast, the controls are the same and CD has the feel of RC cars (or matchbox I guess), not real cars, the physics of the engine are like real RC cars, and like JustClaws said, the cars are light, like RC cars, not real ones. If you pick that indoor level and use the camera angle from way above, it really does feel like you are playing with a remote control car around your house! The graphics may suck, but the gameplay is there as long as you except it for what it is and don't try to compare it to Gran Turismo or something! But non the less it does seem like much more could have been done with it and therefore is a disapointment as far as not using the Jag's potential. It probably would be thought of better by many, if it had been released as an "RC" type game instead...with a little antenna sticking up out of the car models... I feel the same way about Blue Lightning; average, run-of-the-mill AfterBurner clone? Yes. But it doesn't mean it's terrible or "so bad you won't believe it", no, just average and not living up to it's potential. BL's biggest problem is it's name, which doesn't live up to the potential of the Lynx original, that's all. If it had NOT been named after the Lynx game which holds a lot of expectation, it would be thought of more widely as an average game instead of a bad game. But people perpetuate the rumor based on their expectations and disappointment of the reality. I never played BL on th Lynx before I got the Jaguar version, I'd heard it was an Afterburner clone (Jag version) and that's what I expected and that's what I got! Since then I've played the Lynx game (I own it), and it is better, considering the system, but it doesn't make me like BL on the Jag any less now. I wouldn't doubt it if the guy selling Blue Lightning in that auction link in the first post has never even played the game himself and is just repeating what he heard about it from others! I agree 100% with what JustClaws said should have been done with BL, but those things not being done still doesn't make the game terrrible, just average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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