2600 on a chip

[mos6507]

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/ente...2987555,00.html

 

 

Quote:

 

"Jakks has sold more than a million of the self-contained gaming systems and the company has plans for new versions through 2006, Goldberg said."

 

This pretty much confirms to me that the key to retrogaming is merely marketing and distribution.

 

Now I'm sure that they didn't sell a million 2600 units, that was only part of it, but considering that they are releasing the sequel unit in the paddle, it did pretty well.

 

I think there is enough of a market out there that if you rereleased a 2600 that could accomodate carts you could probably push new titles directly through mainstream outlets.

 

It's all about getting it seen in the stores.

 

Let the naysaying begin.

[Tsukasa]

They don't actually contain a 2600 on a chip. They look at games that can easily be reprogrammed to run on their hardware. So, you couldn't just rip one open and wire a cart slot on it, It wouldn't work that way.

[Mindfield]

No, but at one point Carlos Lopez was working on creating a 2600 on a Chip by essentially cramming all of the TIA, RIOT, etc. logic on a single FPGA. Haven't heard any updates on that since the beginning of the year (which was just an update to apologize for the lack of updates) but it'd be interesting to see what could happen if he could get it done.

[Whisper]

 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Haven't heard any updates on that since the beginning of the year (which was just an update to apologize for the lack of updates) but it'd be interesting to see what could happen if he could get it done.

It has turned into a commercial project.

[Mindfield]

It has turned into a commercial project.

 

Interesting. Any idea how far along it is, and what he plans to do when it's done?

[Tsukasa]

Maybe we'll be lucky and he'll sell it to a company that will release a 'mini' 2600, or something like that.

 

You can't imagine that it would be easy to get all that stuff in a single chip.

Just by looking at the datasheet for the TIA, it would be hard to fit one in a chip as it is, without the RIOT and CPU.

 

Hope he breadboarded it first...

[Room 34]

I can imagine these days it could probably be crammed into a form factor much smaller than a 2600 cartridge itself... so that rather than inserting the cartridge into the console, you'd just stick the "console" onto the end of the cartridge!

[Ralph3]

 

You can't imagine that it would be easy to get all that stuff in a single chip.

Just by looking at the datasheet for the TIA, it would be hard to fit one in a chip as it is, without the RIOT and CPU.  

How is the NES/Famicom clones done. I have one in a game boy case. Slap a screen on it and I have the Game Boy Avance classic series without having to buy all new carts again. I might disassemble my unit to see how it is.

[Curt Vendel]

Actually to date, Jakks has sold 2.6 million of the just the Atari 10-in-1 joystick model.... not bad for a sloppy 1/2 assed programming effort, I will be curious to see what the figures on the paddle controllers will be like.

 

 

 

Curt

[Bruce Tomlin]

Maybe we'll be lucky and he'll sell it to a company that will release a 'mini' 2600, or something like that.

 

You can't imagine that it would be easy to get all that stuff in a single chip.

Just by looking at the datasheet for the TIA, it would be hard to fit one in a chip as it is, without the RIOT and CPU.  

 

Hope he breadboarded it first...

FPGAs. It's a chip full of gates, and you download the configuration to it in an instant. Describe your hardware in VHDL and let the computers figure it all out. Need more gates? Get a bigger FPGA. Don't want to have to program it all the time? Get an EEPROM-based FPGA. Making a couple of million? Get a chip company to make an ASIC from your VHDL.

 

That's the technology that makes the Cuttle Cart 2 possible.

[PhoenixSoft]

Looks like the pirates already have tiny Ataris on the market:

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Gaming/Other/auct...on-12970696.htm

 

What I really want is one of the portable Ataris that this guy makes:

http://www.classicgaming.com/vcsp/

[Brad2600]

Actually to date, Jakks has sold 2.6 million of the just the Atari 10-in-1 joystick model.... not bad for a sloppy 1/2 assed programming effort, I will be curious to see what the figures on the paddle controllers will be like.

 

 

 

Curt

 

I always encourage folks in my area to buy an original 2600 and games instead of one of those stupid Jakks consoles. Am I the only one who hates those things? They aren't close enough to the real thing!

[WildBillTX]

My local Wal-Mart supercenter had a huge display of those Jaxx games for 18.99 Thats proably why they have sold (shipped) millions. My brother bought the Namco Pac-Man. The games look nice but the joystick control is lousy.

 

I havent seen any of those 2600's on a chip - but I have seen the NES version called a "Power Player 76000" - it had something like 76 games with a zillion variations (hacks) on a controller that looked like it was cloned from a dreamcast. I checked one out at one of those "fly by night" car audio sales they have at our local fairgrounds - they were selling them for about 59.00.

 

http://famiclone.emucamp.com/power-player-...player76000.htm

 

They are no subsitute for a real 2600 or MAME, but if they get kids interested in playing classic games then I have no problem with people buying them. Hopefully I will find one of those at my local thrift store in a year or two after some kid breaks one of those joysticks and thier parents give it away to Goodwill.

[PhoenixSoft]

I have a N64-controller-lookalike which actually has a pirate NES inside and the world-famous Nes on a chip. It has 40 different built-in games and 20 renamed copies in the traditional pirate style.

[+Nathan Strum]

I think a "new" 2600 would be sellable, but only if it were about the size of a Gameboy Advance, and only if the carts were similarly tiny, too. The unit would have to be about $29.99, and the games about $5 each. Otherwise, I honestly don't think it could sell in today's market. If anyone wanted to use original 2600 carts with it, someone would have to make an adaptor for it.

 

I don't think most people really want to carry around big, honkin' carts for a portable system. I love the 2600, but if I wanted to carry around more than two or three games - I'm suddenly out of pockets. But for a handheld with small carts, it would be perfect. The GBA Activision Anthology is a perfect example of how well those games work on a screen of that size.

[Tsukasa]

Maybe we'll be lucky and he'll sell it to a company that will release a 'mini' 2600, or something like that.

 

You can't imagine that it would be easy to get all that stuff in a single chip.

Just by looking at the datasheet for the TIA, it would be hard to fit one in a chip as it is, without the RIOT and CPU.  

 

Hope he breadboarded it first...

FPGAs. It's a chip full of gates, and you download the configuration to it in an instant. Describe your hardware in VHDL and let the computers figure it all out. Need more gates? Get a bigger FPGA. Don't want to have to program it all the time? Get an EEPROM-based FPGA. Making a couple of million? Get a chip company to make an ASIC from your VHDL.

 

That's the technology that makes the Cuttle Cart 2 possible.

 

 

Thanks, I know all about that stuff. Just take a look at the TIA datasheet and tell me it wouldn't be easy to write vhdl for it. I'm not claiming to know vhdl, but according to Albert, when the code for the PLDs for the bankswitch boards at the AA store was being written, he didn't have the expensive commercial software for doing it, and he likened it to programming an eprom by hand.

[Bruce Tomlin]

I'm not claiming to know vhdl, but according to Albert, when the code for the PLDs for the bankswitch boards at the AA store was being written, he didn't have the expensive commercial software for doing it, and he likened it to programming an eprom by hand.

What, he did it raw, too? I never bothered to get a board with a PAL in it, so I hacked up my own JEDEC files. Besides, he was using 20V8 chips, and I had a tube of 22V10 that I found at a thrift store a couple of years ago so I would have had to anyhow. That's sort of cool that the originals were written the hard way too.

 

I'm somewhat annoyed that there doesn't seem to be ANY open-source PLD software, especially since I use OS X and the only free stuff out there is 10+ year old DOS programs. It's not like they need PAL programming algorithms, which the manufacturers don't like to release. JEDEC files are pretty straightforward to generate. It's the higher-level stuff that's conspicuously missing. There's not even some cheap open-source language to specify PAL equations.

[Bruce Tomlin]

I havent seen any of those 2600's on a chip - but I have seen the NES version called a "Power Player 76000" - it had something like 76 games with a zillion variations (hacks) on a controller that looked like it was cloned from a dreamcast. I checked one out at one of those "fly by night" car audio sales they have at our local fairgrounds - they were selling them for about 59.00.

You mean an like N64 controller, right? Those seem to be the most common one at flea markets right now. Mostly, I only care about the cartridges, since I can stick them into my Tri-Star adapter. The N64 controller ones don't seem to use a cartridge. And there's different versions of Power Joy carts too. I have a PJ-001 I got at a thrift store about two years ago, but I've heard that PJ-008 is the one with the good games on it. I have another cartridge from a PSX-style famiclone, and it's only got a lot of hacks of the same eight games.

[Cootster]

Looks like the pirates already have tiny Ataris on the market:

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Gaming/Other/auct...on-12970696.htm

 

What I really want is one of the portable Ataris that this guy makes:http://www.classicgaming.com/vcsp/

 

There's a version of that pirate system that actually takes carts, IIRC . . . Heckendorn's is probably far more durable, but insanely expensive.

[Tsukasa]

Cootster! What happened? It was your turn to pick the game for the HSC but you never showed so zero raffled off your chance....

[jsoper]

I'm somewhat annoyed that there doesn't seem to be ANY open-source PLD software, especially since I use OS X and the only free stuff out there is 10+ year old DOS programs.  

I wonder if any universities are selling student versions of Xilinx or Altera software? Maybe you could bribe someone to get you one from the campus bookstore?

BTW, I'm studying the one-chip 2600 junior Inanimate Carbon Rod loaned me. I'll post the findings soon.

[mos6507]

I think a "new" 2600 would be sellable, but only if it were about the size of a Gameboy Advance, and only if the carts were similarly tiny, too. The unit would have to be about $29.99, and the games about $5 each. Otherwise, I honestly don't think it could sell in today's market. If anyone wanted to use original 2600 carts with it, someone would have to make an adaptor for it.

 

I don't think most people really want to carry around big, honkin' carts for a portable system. I love the 2600, but if I wanted to carry around more than two or three games - I'm suddenly out of pockets. But for a handheld with small carts, it would be perfect. The GBA Activision Anthology is a perfect example of how well those games work on a screen of that size.

 

As admirable as the GBA 2600 emu is, if you built a 2600 portable from scratch, the LCD really has to be 320x200 (like a PDA screen). Anything else and you are really screwing with the pixels.

[+Nathan Strum]

As admirable as the GBA 2600 emu is, if you built a 2600 portable from scratch, the LCD really has to be 320x200 (like a PDA screen).  Anything else and you are really screwing with the pixels.

 

Well, I meant size in a more loose definition. Not resolution as such, but the dimensions of the screen.

 

Anyway... I don't think they could build anything with a built-in color screen for the kind of money I suggested, and I don't think the general public will pay much more than that for an Atari 2600, no matter how cool a portable it could make. (Of course we would, but that's different.)

[Rob Mitchell]

It has turned into a commercial project.

 

Wow! This is what is needed to make it viable. Exciting news!

 

Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA