Can Marble Man ever be released?

[Keatah]

It's clear it's being held for random. So I wouldn't worry about this game too much. Every hobby has some rarefied & stratified larger-than-life unobtainables.

[negative1]

Held for 'random'?

 

anyways, this is supposedly a new board that's been found by a different owner possibly.

 

so maybe there is a chance after all.

 

i don't really care, because the android version from 2010 officially has tons of new

levels (can be played on a pc using bluestacks and a trackball),

and has tons of elements from that game, and IS PLAYABLE RIGHT NOW. (for free)

it's been out for 8 years.

 

 

also if someone wanted to recreate the marble madness 2 levels, using the

video, you could pretty much have half the game right there. there are

several engines out there, and you could try to recreate the artwork too.

 

the music is ok,

but to me the original FM towns version is awesome, and orchestral:

 

later

-1

Edited November 20, 2018 by negative1

[Tanooki]

I'm not sure holding a rom dump in your private possession counts as being preserved.

 

While my degrees are in business administration, my hobbies all basically center around history. And when I hear that word, to me at least it implies certain things like some form of access by the public and a plan for the future to ensure its survival for future generations. Maybe those with a degree in the field may disagree, but then again maybe they wouldn't.

I happen to agree with that and I always have. The usual counter to it tends to be that (depending on your opinion 'selfish') person will make multiple copies on multiple forms of media stored in more than one physical address type location (say home, then bank lock box) so that it can be preserved. But in the end it's still just held by one individual so it's kind of like it doesn't actually really exist unless they choose to sell, or they die and it rolls out that way. Real preservation is more like how a museum will handle something and roll things out every now and again, even pumping out copies of an original so people can enjoy that piece of art at home too. Like you I can respect their right to hoard something just to themselves, but no reason to like it in the least bit because it's too high of a risk and even making copies creates a digital signature as it is, so it's still not the original and shouldn't diminish it's value.

[Keatah]

When it comes to "preserving" videogames, accessibility and playability are paramount. Just like art. Even rare art. Most museums collectors do exhibits and displays.

 

Look, there are some artificially "rare" games out there. But you know what..they might as well not exist. You'll never see them. You'll never play them. So don't bunch your panties too tightly.

[negative1]

how does something not exist because you don't have access to it.

 

marble man has been show several times at public places, and people have played it,

taken videos of it, etc.

 

there are least 3 people with, and now possibly a fourth.

 

i don't know why you don't think its been preserved, and is safe the future.

 

there's plenty of documentation on it.

 

for me, it's been preserved, and thats good enough.

 

later

-1

[Keatah]

It doesn't exist (to me).

[youxia]

marble man has been show several times at public places, and people have played it,

taken videos of it, etc.

 

there are least 3 people with, and now possibly a fourth.

 

i don't know why you don't think its been preserved, and is safe the future.

 

there's plenty of documentation on it.

 

 

I think our definitions of "preservation" vary significantly. In my book, the fact there are some videos or "documentation" is merely a record, not preservation of the thing itself. Few dudes owning it is completely meaningless in regard to the future because there are nil guarantees that they will ever release it or manage to keep preserving it, given how randomly unpredictable life is. As somebody who's working on a large preservation project, I can assure you of that. There are games released a year or two ago which are already unavailable and nigh on impossible to find, nevermind some old timey rarity.

 

Then there is the angle Keatah mentions, that this sort of elitist take on preservation is fairly pointless seeing as nobody can access it, so it may as well not exist.

[+H.E.R.O.]

The MAME team has the roms for preservation under the agreement they don't add them to MAME.

[youxia]

There's a difference between some dudes who possibly "protect their investments" (ugh) and a world-renowned non-profit team which relies on donations, has to honour agreements to get more of them and avoid copyright challenges and so on. Plus it's rather probable that they will eventually release those games in some point in time.

Edited November 20, 2018 by youxia

[Flojomojo]

That's an interesting story, yet another unreleased prototype, held by a private collector. It sounds like it's pretty well documented, if not a ton of fun.

 

Why do people feel the need to have ROMs for stuff like this? It's preserved, just not in your possession. That's ok. There are plenty of other, likely better, Marble Madness clones to play of you like the style of game. It sounds like there's only a few (or one) PCB of it, and it belongs to someone else. That's life.

[youxia]

If a tree game is being preserved but nobody is allowed to experience it, is it actually preserved at all?

 

So yeah, what is the point of preserving something if wider public is never gonna have access to it? It's quite ridiculous, and as we said above it may as well not exist since the fact of it being "preserved" in this way makes absolutely no difference to the real world.

 

The fact that there are some other, perhaps better, games in this style is totally irrelevant. What if there is only one game like that or if it was actually brilliant? It's not the point really.

 

Following the tired logic of iron-cast "ownership" we shouldn't have ever seen any arcade games released, or in fact any other repos not available through legal channels - Atari included. Most of them is covered by some sort of licensing or "owned" by somebody and as such nobody should ever touch them. Luckily the reality we inhabit allows millions of people to bypass this and draw huge enjoyment and inspiration from these games, without really hurting anybody. With added bonus of real preservation for future generations.

 

Yep, I'm a pinko-hippie with some seriously naff ideas, such as the one where copyright laws in regard to media last, say, 2 decades and then move into public domain thus making life on this fairly whacked out planet much more enjoyable. Go on, sue me (pun intended)

And individuals who hoard stuff for themselves just because they think they are the chosen guardian elite or need to "protect their investment" deserve only a massive eyeroll sent their way

 

And the above constitutes my annual 0.02$ on this subject.

[Flojomojo]

Yes, private ownership is a kind of preservation, especially when the alternative is destruction.

 

Museums are owners of property as well, and often sit on large quantities of holdings that are not shown to the public. Just because you can't see them whenever you want doesn't make them nonexistent. Seriously, get over your bad self. :-) and it's totally relevant there are other marble games you could play instead of pissing into the wind that is copyright law.

 

I suspect you'd feel differently about copyrights if you had some commercially viable work from which you wanted to profit.

 

It is possible to be a little bit socialist and a little bit capitalist.

[carlsson]

If the game was exhibited at an expo in Florida, at freeplay even, does that mean nobody gets to experience it, if even for just one day of the year? Compare to a live performance where all forms of recording equipment is seized before the concert and returned afterwards. The people who went to the concert get to enjoy it, but nobody can listen or watch it afterwards. Does this mean the concert never took place?

[Keatah]

If the game was exhibited at an expo in Florida, at freeplay even, does that mean nobody gets to experience it, if even for just one day of the year? Compare to a live performance where all forms of recording equipment is seized before the concert and returned afterwards. The people who went to the concert get to enjoy it, but nobody can listen or watch it afterwards. Does this mean the concert never took place?

 

It's the age old Quantum Mechanics and Shroedinger's Cat debate stuff. Sure the concert took place, but the experience for me did not exist, does not exist, and will not exist.

[Flojomojo]

Sucks to be Keatah!

[carlsson]

If it was universally recognized as an excellent game that got cancelled due to financial reasons, I could understand the demand to get the ROM shared so everyone could enjoy it. Instead we're reading multiple accounts of it being a so-so game, not entirely unplayable but nothing particularly memorable IF it had been released, dumped and shared. It seems like people are chasing the three legged unicorn with a diarrhea here, nothing you'd groom and pet every day if it was a regular horse but highly sought after just because it is a unicorn.

Edited November 20, 2018 by carlsson

[Flojomojo]

It seems like people are chasing the three legged unicorn with a diarrhea here, nothing you'd groom and pet every day if it was a regular horse but highly sought after just because it is a unicorn.

 

Counterpoint: Unicorn diarrhea is something special.

 

[TheCoolDave]

If it was universally recognized as an excellent game that got cancelled due to financial reasons, I could understand the demand to get the ROM shared so everyone could enjoy it. Instead we're reading multiple accounts of it being a so-so game, not entirely unplayable but nothing particularly memorable IF it had been released, dumped and shared. It seems like people are chasing the three legged unicorn with a diarrhea here, nothing you'd groom and pet every day if it was a regular horse but highly sought after just because it is a unicorn.

 

Even if the game is beyond bad. It's my choice if wanted to experience it and give my own thoughts of the game. On some accounts, it is my unicorn as I have been trying to play it for MANY Years now. It does not seem to come up towards my end of the world (unless I didn't know about it), so I have not been able to experience it.

 

It's like the old quest about the E.T. carts burred in Mexico.... at least we finally got to know what happened there (I even I have 2 of the shirts from it) as for playing Marble Man...not sure if it will happen.

[HoshiChiri]

Yes, private ownership is a kind of preservation, especially when the alternative is destruction.

 

Museums are owners of property as well, and often sit on large quantities of holdings that are not shown to the public. Just because you can't see them whenever you want doesn't make them nonexistent.

 

There is a big difference between a museum artifact, where the value is tied in the specific piece & therefore reproductions have no notable value, & a piece of media where the media itself rather than the form it takes has its own intrinsic value. Personally, I think it's kind of funny to bring up museums as an 'it's preserved so don't worry about it' solution- all it takes is a few people choosing not to maintain that museum to result in catastrophic losses.

 

It's not like people are demanding cabinets be put into production & placed in every street corner in the world set to free play... we'd just like to have the ROM so the game can be played in some form, even if it's not the original one. Just in case the 3 existing machines are destroyed or break. Assuming that's not already the case- considering it seems only one of these machines has ever been shown to the public, we're just taking it on good faith that the other two haven't broken down, been in a fire, or smashed by an angry ex sick of these stupid games. For a game that has no commercial value, the only thing holding it back is some person choosing their 'investment' over contributing to gaming culture... which, considering the kind of money one would need to already have to afford stupid crap like prototype arcade cabinets, makes this kind of thing rather tragic.

[Flojomojo]

Melodrama much? It's just a bad old game. There are many like it.

 

Of course we want the ROM. That doesn't mean we are entitled to it.

[Atariboy]

Melodrama much? It's just a bad old game. There are many like it.

 

Of course we want the ROM. That doesn't mean we are entitled to it.

 

I personally hope it's another Joust 2, if it's ever allowed to be preserved.

 

That one doesn't get any respect thanks to a small production run relegating it to obscurity and being a bit out of date for those that actually were able to experience it when new (Thanks I imagine to its nature as a conversion kit for existing machines). But it's still a great game even though you never hear anyone talking about it. I'm sure some Joust fans would want me tarred and feathered for saying this, but I actually like it even more than the original.

 

So I would enjoy being able to similarly judge this for myself. So while I respect their right to not make it available, I'd love to see that change and be able to experience it at my PC or via proper preservation with a non-profit entity with the game hopefully on routine public display in a museum setting or somewhere like Funspot (Even if it's just a MAME cabinet because of the rarity and value of the original board sets).

 

Being shared on a few people's hard disc drives with strict orders to never let it be released isn't preservation in my book. It's their right of course and gamers shouldn't think they're owed the chance to experience it for themselves. But if nothing else, if strictly followed it guarantees an early demise for this game.

Edited November 23, 2018 by Atariboy

[ubersaurus]

Even bad games deserve to be preserved. There was just a whole process of preserving previously unknown or thought-lost programs and games RCA made in the 70s. I don't know that any are particularly good, but they deserved to be backed up and are available to anyone who might want to try them out of curiosity, or for research, or historical context, and so on. How many unreleased prototypes out there are for games that sucked? Probably most of em. And yeah, if they are dumped and out in the ether of the internet, it's much less likely that the game will simply vanish. Yes, the machine is owned by the collector and they can do whatever they want with it, but from a preservation standpoint not having any dump distributed isn't a huge amount better than never doing a dump in the first place - it's still precariously preserved and could get wiped out from a couple bad turns.

 

Plus there's the commercial value aspect; I guarantee you Netherrealm does not have a copy of Marble Man's rom file, especially with the number of times Atari Games changed hands before ending up there. If they want to put it on a future compilation, they'd likely pull a rom off the internet. The folks doing the SNK 40th collection had that issue - they wanted to include some of snk's early games but they'd never been dumped due to uninterested collectors in Japan... and SNK sure doesn't have the files anymore. Micon Kit might not be a great game, but it deserves better than to be lost and forgotten.

[negative1]

Assuming that's not already the case- considering it seems only one of these machines has ever been shown to the public, we're just taking it on good faith that the other two haven't broken down, been in a fire, or smashed by an angry ex sick of these stupid games. For a game that has no commercial value, the only thing holding it back is some person choosing their 'investment' over contributing to gaming culture... which, considering the kind of money one would need to already have to afford stupid crap like prototype arcade cabinets, makes this kind of thing rather tragic.

The details about the florida machine are as follows.

 

- Its not the same one as the california one

- It's owned by a different person

 

More details will emerge in a writeup from someone that went there and

tried it out.

 

Maybe this new owner is more open to the idea about sharing it or preserving it.

 

So there might be some hope after all.

 

later

-1

[TheCoolDave]

The details about the florida machine are as follows.

 

- Its not the same one as the california one

- It's owned by a different person

 

More details will emerge in a writeup from someone that went there and

tried it out.

 

Maybe this new owner is more open to the idea about sharing it or preserving it.

 

So there might be some hope after all.

 

later

-1

 

Anyone know this person who has the 2nd copy/machine ? Anyone willing to make contact to see if they are willing to allow someone to rip the roms ? If the answer is yes, does anyone here have the hardware capable of ripping the chips on a arcade board to a playable format for mame ?

 

And for that Marble Madness app for Android you showed above...anyone know how to get it ? It's not available in the official store...

Edited November 25, 2018 by TheCoolDave

[Keatah]

There is no "playable format" for MAME. The ROMs are simply copied, bit-for-bit, into a plain file and that's that.