Game Demo

[emkay]

See the reason... This Thread is about to show RMT working in a Game-Engine.  

Then a Guy comes along saying "hey my is doing so as well... but I am hiding it    " ???

 

 

Yeah, I'm coding a game right now with triple parallax scrolling (3 layers), huge sprites, PM underlays and RMT-like music, but it will take me two years to release it.

 

So the complaining spot went over, nothing is shocking me anymore

 

[TMR]

 

16 bytes (screen RAM write)

256 bytes (background conversion)

192 bytes (mask and copy, bit generous but they are combined)

40 bytes (player overlays)

504 bytes total

 

Actually, this explains it as I already thought of.

 

It does? In that case it's very odd that you previously said...

 

If it DOES move 330 bytes every frame for graphics, you must have done something wrong.

 

...which implies that you didn't see why it would need even 330 bytes but now i explain how it uses 500 odd you'd suddenly already thought of it.

 

But those bytes don't have to be moved every frame, because the cursor isn't moving everytime!

 

When it moves, it can travel the entire width and/or height of the play area in one pass - during those moves it processes every frame otherwise the movement would shudder and i was never willing to make concessions like that, even for more colours.

[TMR]

The scroller you did is a very cheap one, and as I mentioned, even easy fast to be done in Turbo Basic if someone would try.

 

And, as i pointed out both in the text and the timing indicator, my scroller runs in under eight rasterlines; you were harping on about CPU use, if full screen scrolling takes under eight lines that's not exactly a lot of CPU use and the "fixed graphics" game is moving ten times as much data a frame. No, there's no parallax but it was coded in two fucking hours so what did you expect for crying out loud?

 

You got it right, that a non-coder doesn't recognize the flickering scanlines as a speed indicator, so I told you what I (or every non-coder) see by this.

 

The other non-coders don't tell the coders how it's meant to be done, why are you passing judgement on my code and making assumptions about how it works if you're not a coder? i don't see any other non-coders saying they understand how many bytes my soft/hard sprite routine should be taking or how "cheap" my scroller code was.

[TMR]

Wish I never opened this thread  

 

Sorry, i'm just sick of the "non-coder" over there who thinks he seems to know more than the coders. Trying to drag things back on course, how much more work are you looking at for the game before it's complete...?

[Schmutzpuppe]

Wish I never opened this thread  

 

Sorry, i'm just sick of the "non-coder" over there who thinks he seems to know more than the coders. Trying to drag things back on course, how much more work are you looking at for the game before it's complete...?

Well I would say now it's about 30-40% complete, I wanted to add at least two more levels and different game modes, sound, music, highscoretable and all the little things that taking so much time to do. I am not sure if it's worth it so maybe I'll strip it down.

[emkay]

The other non-coders don't tell the coders how it's meant to be done, why are you passing judgement on my code and making assumptions about how it works if you're not a coder?  i don't see any other non-coders saying they understand how many bytes my soft/hard sprite routine should be taking or how "cheap" my scroller code was.

 

Perhaps I did write the first inter-ATARI networking game?

Perhaps I did create the first game with a triple per scanline mode?

Perhaps I did write binary loaders myself?

Perhaps I did code by hex-values and not code in a macro assembler?

Perhaps I did create the ground for colorful nonflickering graphics?

...

 

After stopping any development on the A8 in 1991, the most of my projects are simply gone(lost or defective Disks). All I have left is the MCS-slideshow, the game Admirandus and "XL-ST Schiffeversenken" from 1988 which was networking over the SIO-ST(PC) interface. The full XL-Ddisk is loading from the ST, so you don't need a 1050 or else...

a.s.o.

In addition, I didn't know even one professional coder, musician or graphician and developed those in my spare time after returning home from work. Learning all from computer-magazines and -books.

Can you half imagine how pi**ed I was, when going to a computer club... telling and showing the "reached"... and everyone is saying... not possible ... too heavy... etc. ? And no one was even interested in adding my ideas and there was never a response to the PD-released projects, too.

I promised myself never to do any code or programming again... Today I am simply not interested in doing some software.

 

But, didn't I write this already?

[Heaven/TQA]

emkay... don't tell me that you have coded stuff just by hex values except for

 

a9 00

8d 1a d0

a9 0f

8d 1a d0

4c 00 06

 

 

and your "coding with macroassembler" quote is absolutly bullshit...so ein quatsch habe ich ja schon lange nicht mehr gehört...

 

take assembler of your choice and come back and we all have the same weapons to fight each other...

 

then we can through "code" on each other and not just words... so...what about a coding contest to proove your arguments? dont tell me you have to time or joy...or whatever...i mean you are putting so much energy in critising others code...so i hope TMR is not the next one or analmux who will leave (as jet boot jack)....

 

hunting season is opened...

 

just my 2 cents...

[emkay]

 

a9 00

8d 1a d0

a9 0f

8d 1a d0

4c 00 06

 

 

 

 

LDA #00

STA d01a

LDA #0f

STA d01a

JMP 0600

 

 

 

 

Fehlt noch

 

PHA

 

....

 

PLA

 

RTI

 

[TMR]

Perhaps I did write the first inter-ATARI networking game?

Perhaps I did create the first game with a triple per scanline mode?

Perhaps I did write binary loaders myself?

Perhaps I did code by hex-values and not code in a macro assembler?

Perhaps I did create the ground for colorful nonflickering graphics?

 

Then perhaps you should stop acting stupid and claiming to be a "non-coder" because it's bollocks. As for coding in hex values, that's not a big big deal since i used to code hand assembling on paper and then POKEing the decimal code into a 3.5K VIC20's memory a byte at a time from BASIC, not a big deal.

 

Can you half imagine how pi**ed I was, when going to a computer club... telling and showing the "reached"... and everyone is saying... not possible ... too heavy... etc. ?

 

Can you imagine how pissed people get when you tell them your way is right and theirs has no value but you won't produce working examples unless someone else codes them?

 

And no one was even interested in adding my ideas and there was never a response to the PD-released projects, too.

 

Well, the way you suggested doing Reaxion all that time ago would have doubled the per frame requirements of the sprite and put more load on the CPU to the point where the game wouldn't have run at full framerate, i can understand that response; advancing the graphics or sound is good but never when it's to the detriment of the game itself.

[analmux]

.....yeah, in the stoneage I used to code binary opcode values bit by bit with copper wires connected between the 0 or 5 volt wires and the D-RAM chips

 

now come on and continue arguing on another forum please. No Heaven don't be afraid, I won't leave the forum because some people need to argue.

 

By the way....I've moved succesfully to another town and I'm getting back on the WWW soon. I love to live on my own now

[+CharlieChaplin]

Well,

I am no programmer - not at all (and I have never programmed anything). But I guess the reason why most programmers ignored Emkay in the late 80s (and early 90s) was simply the way he was talking to them - guess he used the same critisizing/unkind words, he uses today. So as a kind of revenge, they did not listen to him or just did the opposite of what he was talking about...

 

Taking a look at MK`s software (from an absolutely non-coder view), well he gave us great new gfx with lots of colours - but combined with old pix (converted from C64 and Amiga I guess) and a quite lame game (a german version of "Wheel of Fortune"). It is no wonder that almost no-one was impressed by this - when I saw the game Admirandus, I said "nice gfx, but a lame game, I already have various clones of it". (It would be like doing another Pong, Breakout, Pacman, Tetris, ... with G2F or MCS gfx - the people would say: nice gfx but we already have 1000 clones of that game and as a result they would lose interest fast.)

 

And er, if I remember correctly, Admirandus does not have any movement (or does it?). I guess it is not so easy to do a "moving" game (e.g. a jump & run game, a formula one racing game, an olympic game) with G2F or MCS gfx and RMT music - if so, you soon get troubles with CPU time, framerate and other things (I do not know much)...

 

So, MK as a kind of result - if you behave rude to programmers, don`t expect them to take you serious or to put your words/ideas into consideration. And please do not always say "I did that game (Admirandus) and those pix (converted from C64) in the past, now it`s your turn..." - these things were not very amazing then and they are not now (and most especially the behaviour behind that argument is a one-way street). Show us the techniques that you use in your msx and gfx - BUT please do also accept if not everyone uses / imports them in/to new software (just like you should accept different religions, opinions,) skin-colours, etc. - simply "live and let live")...

 

We could do jokes like - why did you not promise yourself to leave the A8 scene, why did you not promise yourself to keep all the secrets (behind your gfx and msx techniques), why did you not promise yourself to be quiet for the rest of your life, etc. etc. - but we don`t do these jokes here, see. We are *nice* Atarians and we respect and accept other peoples lives and views. We can critisize them, but only in a kind (not a rude) way. If not, it will all end in a kind of flame-war - and you can be sure that you will not reach your goal/target this way (convincing others, to use new gfx & msx techniques)... nuff said - out of memory, Andreas.

 

P.S.: Nope, I will not learn coding for anyone! But I like testing programs...

[emkay]

But I guess the reason why most programmers ignored Emkay in the late 80s (and early 90s) was simply the way he was talking to them - guess he used the same critisizing/unkind words, he uses today.  

 

 

It was vice versa.... It did my software(because I really loved to create software on that great 8bit machine), went to some Computer Clubs(incl. ABBUC), explained it in a perhaps too reserved manner.

Only Benji-Soft's Sound Monitor is using some Overlay after I talked with them. All Guys did reject, because it was to complicated for them... nothing else.

So there was no response to any of my "ideas" I was very shure that the A8 was dead... and I never ended the membership with ABBUC because I thought it will soon be dead, too....

 

We could do jokes like - why did you not promise yourself to leave the A8 scene, why did you not promise yourself to keep all the secrets (behind your gfx and msx techniques), why did you not promise yourself to be quiet for the rest of your life, etc. etc. -

 

Actually I could not leave the 8-Bit scene, because I was never in there.

Perhaps I would have been in, when I could have gathered a software creation group or else....

Even Today I don't know anyone personnaly of the actual active people...

It's all electronic communications.

 

It was some interesting writing from an ABBUC Member on a I-Net Page that did make me thinking "IF they still doing new software, just do all that they make it better than in the past", and to help "them" ....

(The most interesting thing is, that people even try to reject if you want to help them)

 

Admirandus is NO MCS game. It uses a heavy load of DLIs to set the triple graphicsmode. The main game is done in Turbo Basic, because there was enough to do with writing external tools (graphics-conversion, hires color-font creation a.s.o.). The only external tool I did use, was "a musician's dream" which was heavily restricted in it's functions, but it did make it possible to create some new soundings.

 

And even if ADMIRANDUS is a boring game to you... loading it into an emulator in 2003 was enough to see that the achievement was standing still since I did put the XL onto the attic.

The emulation did neither show the graphics nor the sound was played correctly..... 12 years after releasing the game , no one did know the lacking issues of the emulation, because the available software did work on it.

I really did ask myself "how can this be true"...

 

 

Perhaps it would have been better to drop it all off again, instead of trying to help others with real helpful tips, examples and experimentings, and ripping off my nerves again.

 

Even this thread had the cause of a "helping" manner, but it ended in useless arguing again.