Ferris Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 Brillant! It's not that I don't admit you have some great points. I do. And I fear you are correct. If I were in your shoes I would be saying exactly the same thing. However I've been persuing 7800 Electrocop like Agent Mulder was after his abducted sister. We're both after the truth. We both WANT TO BELIEVE. But I do not have mere blind faith, it's my personal experiences and interactions with people who will swear up and down that this thing exists that influences me to keep going. I sure do enjoy the hunt, speculation and debate though. Great points going both ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 Lance : “There’s another big hard drive we are working on right now that is literally filled with thousands of these weird encoded 7800 files. We are trying to figure out what this stuff is. There’s a lot of stuff on an 80 meg sub-hard drive, one of Atari's own brand MegaFiler, literally THOUSANDS of files on this thing and we cannot make heads or tales of what it is. The characters they used for encoding almost look like hieroglyphics. These aren’t letters these are characters. GATO was found in one of the file names but they cannot crack the encoding. (Coding looks like”AGQAQTQO.QQQ” or “GATOQ1.ROM”)When you look on the file there is nothing there but machine language and coding for some kind of system. Whoever coded it knew what it was and how to read it but how are we ever going to figure it out? We would need the Rosetta Stone of Atari 7800 to be able to make this work that is where we need the most help.” If someone were to send me an image file of the drive in question, or give me a URL where I could download it via a web or FTP server, I'd see what I could do with it. I'm rather good at figuring out stuff like this. (The most recent such thing I had to do was to recover 3 megs of e-mail from a Mac AOL cabinet file... there were plenty of docs for the PC format, but none for the Mac format.) I'm serious, this is exactly my kind of puzzle. And hey, I did manage to put together a HSC Desert Falcon rather quickly, didn't I? Cool! I hope you guys can get something working out of there. Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferris Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 I'm sure hoping so. I need to talk with Lance as he is very protective of his assets in situations like this. Hopefully I can get some of these files and see what we can do. I will give him a call tomorrow and see what's up. Anyone else recognize these codes? Sure beats the crap out of me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Kay Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 I'm sure hoping so. I need to talk with Lance as he is very protective of his assets in situations like this. Hopefully I can get some of these files and see what we can do. I will give him a call tomorrow and see what's up. Anyone else recognize these codes? Sure beats the crap out of me. This could be exciting... certainly can't be any worse than the Waterworld fiasco a few years ago... who was that boob, anyway??? Cheers! Joey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 I'm sure hoping so. I need to talk with Lance as he is very protective of his assets in situations like this. Hopefully I can get some of these files and see what we can do. I will give him a call tomorrow and see what's up. Anyone else recognize these codes? Sure beats the crap out of me. This could be exciting... certainly can't be any worse than the Waterworld fiasco a few years ago... who was that boob, anyway??? Cheers! Joey Flexured and it wasn't Waterworld. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubersaurus Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 I have a stack of those things in my collection... thing is, who knows what's on your cartridge? For all you know it could be Electrocop or Crystal Castles. Cover those windows and check it out. Heh - I bet John Hardie and those guys know exactly where those games are ... right beside MISSING IN ACTION, PLUTOS and SIRIUS on their shelves. I wouldn't doubt it. Those guys spent the early half of the 1990's making their way into the vendors' warehouses and pilaging what nifty items they found. (I know this first-hand.) It's nice that theyve found some great titles but unfortunately they do not care to share. Even if they wanted to publish these titles and release them at CGE, I'd be fine with that. It was their find and they are welcome to make a few dollars off of it.... I just wish we could all get to play these games one day. What the hell are you talking about? I point you to this thread on DP: http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic....ighlight=plutos There you have it. They have 3 games for the 7800, and they can't get any of them working correctly. DP's released the roms of all the CGE releases that have sold out, and a number of other games that either weren't complete enough to deem a release, or that they just didn't care about releasing, notably Targ and Meltdown a couple months ago. If there's no rom, then you can still pick up the games at the CGE site. Your information appears to be faulty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferris Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 Bla Bla Bla my information is not faulty unless four vendors have been lying to me for fifteen years. I'm not going to turn this into a "ME vs. THEM" issue or an "AA vs. DP" issue. I'll treat these guys with a certain level of respect, however I'm not going to gloss over their shady record and pretend things didn’t happen and oppress my own opinion. Homie don’t play that game. My facts are correct and if you wish to PM me and discuss it further so that I can clarify it for you I'd be more than happy to do that. However with that being said this discussion is over. This could be exciting... certainly can't be any worse than the Waterworld fiasco a few years ago... who was that boob, anyway??? Cheers! Joey Flexured and it wasn't Waterworld. LOL LOL what was the fiasco?? I think I missed out on this somehow. Did they even begin work on Air World before Warner sold off to the Tramiels in 1984? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubersaurus Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 Bla Bla Bla my information is not faulty unless four vendors have been lying to me for fifteen years. I'm not going to turn this into a "ME vs. THEM" issue or an "AA vs. DP" issue. I'll treat these guys with a certain level of respect, however I'm not going to gloss over their shady record and pretend things didn’t happen and oppress my own opinion. Homie don’t play that game. My facts are correct and if you wish to PM me and discuss it further so that I can clarify it for you I'd be more than happy to do that. However with that being said this discussion is over. Did you even look at the forum post? Feel free to ask those guys about their record with roms. Garfield, Pompeii, Meltdown, Targ, Frog demo, were all released, no strings attached. There's numerous other games without the roms dumped that the CGE people still have plenty of for sale, if anyone would want to pick them up(all you have to do is ask). The bottom line is that even if they went to those warehouses, got some cool stuff, and made off with it, they've released everything they have but those few games mentioned in that post. Plutos, Sirius, MIA(for reasons that they can't get em working), Wings(damaged from bitrot), Look Ahead, Tumbleweeds, and some other game, are the only ones they've still got under wraps. Cut the guys some slack, dude. My facts are just as correct as you feel yours are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 I'm sure hoping so. I need to talk with Lance as he is very protective of his assets in situations like this. Hopefully I can get some of these files and see what we can do. I will give him a call tomorrow and see what's up. As appreciation, we Atari Agers should do a mass order from AtariSales.com. After all, Lance still runs a business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 What the hell are you talking about? I point you to this thread on DP: http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic....ighlight=plutos There you have it. They have 3 games for the 7800, and they can't get any of them working correctly. DP's released the roms of all the CGE releases that have sold out, and a number of other games that either weren't complete enough to deem a release, or that they just didn't care about releasing, notably Targ and Meltdown a couple months ago. If there's no rom, then you can still pick up the games at the CGE site. Your information appears to be faulty. I stand corrected. I'm not a frequent DigitPress goer (the boards are often down when I try to log in) but am a frequent AtariAger. They seldom post here so it looks as though (from an AAger perspective) that they show that they have these games and then refuse to share anything. Incorrect, but that was how it looked. I appologize. But there are people here who can help them with fixing their issues with Atari games ... hopefully someone can. Thanks for posting the thread. [/b] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+davidcalgary29 Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 Two more points on "what ifs": 1. The emergence (and disappearance) of Metal Mutant for the Lynx proves that some games were developed in complete secrecy by some developers in the '90s. I wouldn't doubt that a few titles for the 7800 suffered this same fate. 2. Has anyone managed to dredge up some price and release lists from Atari Canada? (Perhaps DracIsBack can help here). I recall seeing some strange entries for the XE and 7800 in 1989 and 1990, but have since lost my lists. I know for certain that "MIDIMaze" was released for the XE (on disk) in the Toronto area locally around '89, and it's possible that some other titles were "leaked" to people in the area. Perhaps Toronto collectors' collections need to be examined more fully? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferris Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 You know when we start kicking up dirt in this whole 1989-1992 Era where the focus seemed to be more on the Lynx than the 7800, there seems to be a great deal of titles that just got lost in the fog of war. The most intriguing vaporware to me has to do with those early games that were being developed on the Panther platform. Not to mention that Atari Mirai system. That thing was HUGE. I've had two people from SNK swear to me up and down that the SNK was working with Atari as their offices were pretty close, and the Mirai was going to be the "Neo Geo for the masses" but the more I think about what they said to me the less I believe it. Why hasn't this Mirai thing been solved once and for all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferris Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 I'm sure hoping so. I need to talk with Lance as he is very protective of his assets in situations like this. Hopefully I can get some of these files and see what we can do. I will give him a call tomorrow and see what's up. As appreciation, we Atari Agers should do a mass order from AtariSales.com. After all, Lance still runs a business. That's not a bad idea. Lance still has thousands of great titles new in the box. If everyone just bought one title that they've always wanted to get so they could keep it brand new or have it nice and fresh, Lance would probably have enough to support this whole hard drive project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip_Cannon Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 That Mirai thing, does it have any internal components or is it just a mock up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferris Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 No idea.. I've seen it on person only once but there are a few pictures of it out there on the web. I'm pretty sure there is only one Mirai unit that is known of and I am not sure who the owner is. I'd be interested in finding out what the world "Mirai" means... sounds like it would be Japanese for "great wind" or something, you know? lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Kay Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 Two more points on "what ifs": 1. The emergence (and disappearance) of Metal Mutant for the Lynx proves that some games were developed in complete secrecy by some developers in the '90s. I wouldn't doubt that a few titles for the 7800 suffered this same fate. 2. Has anyone managed to dredge up some price and release lists from Atari Canada? (Perhaps DracIsBack can help here). I recall seeing some strange entries for the XE and 7800 in 1989 and 1990, but have since lost my lists. I know for certain that "MIDIMaze" was released for the XE (on disk) in the Toronto area locally around '89, and it's possible that some other titles were "leaked" to people in the area. Perhaps Toronto collectors' collections need to be examined more fully? I've got the Canadian lists from '88 until when Atari closed shop in Canada. White Water Madness is listed, as is MidiMaze, but no Electrocop or Gauntlet! Cheers! Joey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferris Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 Weird. Is there any possible way you could scan this for me and shoot it to me in an email? I'd love to have a copy of that documentation on file. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Kay Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 Weird. Is there any possible way you could scan this for me and shoot it to me in an email? I'd love to have a copy of that documentation on file. My scanner doesn't work with WIndows XP on my new computer --- I can scan it next time I visit dad - could be a couple of weeks, but I'll get it for you! And perhaps I should clarify - Midi Maze is for the XE Best Joey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 Two more points on "what ifs":The emergence (and disappearance) of Metal Mutant for the Lynx proves that some games were developed in complete secrecy by some developers in the '90s. Also - as far as I can tell, a number of the 7800 games that HAVE been found were never actually announced by Atari Corp publically. I followed the 7800 scene closely when it was alive (hence the harping on Electrocop and Gauntlet) but I never heard anything about GATO, PIT FIGHTER, MISSING IN ACTION, PLUTOS or SIRIUS ... though all of those have been discovered in assorted stages of completion. On the other hand, some games which were discussed in public have never been located: White Water Madness/Wood and Water Rage, Gauntlet, Electrocop. I think Atari would announce some titles, but keep others hidden for various reasons ... licensing, surprise etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip_Cannon Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 Missing in Action was a TNT game wasn't it? Perhaps they had more than Missing in Action in the production stages? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Kay Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 Also - as far as I can tell, a number of the 7800 games that HAVE been found were never actually announced by Atari Corp publically. I followed the 7800 scene closely when it was alive (hence the harping on Electrocop and Gauntlet) but I never heard anything about GATO, PIT FIGHTER, MISSING IN ACTION, PLUTOS or SIRIUS ... though all of those have been discovered in assorted stages of completion. I too was a 7800 maniac in the day... and still am! Anyhow... GATO (along with Skyfox) was announced with the Tramiel debut of the 7800. If you check out the Atari video clip from 86 CES, the original debut ad for the 7800 (More games at half the price) mentions Skyfox and GATO. The version of the ad that made it to air, however, has Ballblazer and (I think) One on One Basketball replacing those two carts. Skyfox also appears in the Atari Video Game Catalogue (1987). Either a mock-up shot or a C64 screen shot. Personally, I doubt coding ever began on that title. Excluding consideration of all other evidence (I can't stress enough I'm not "attacking" any other theories - just throwing out other possibilities), I can't believe a game was already in a nearly complete playable state and not announced. Here's another loop to think about --- correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't those two games (Electrocop and Gauntlet) the only Lynx initial release games whose titles were changed - wasn't Electrocop "Impossible Mission" IIRC and Gauntlet was some sort of "Dungeon" type-name. I'd have to check my old mags to find out the exact original titles. Could this be a factor in the "mistaken identity" theory? Cheers! Joey Cheers! Joey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip_Cannon Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 That's what I had mentioned a little while back... "Electrocop" was "Impossible Mission 3" and "Gauntlet" was something like "Time Quest and Treasure Chests" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferris Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 Here's another loop to think about --- correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't those two games (Electrocop and Gauntlet) the only Lynx initial release games whose titles were changed - wasn't Electrocop "Impossible Mission" IIRC and Gauntlet was some sort of "Dungeon" type-name. I'd have to check my old mags to find out the exact original titles. Joey Joey - You are so right on. I have this somewhere in print, I believe in Issue No. 2 of GamePro (1989) there was a full LYNX expose and they clearly showed pictures of Electrocop and titled it as Impossible Mission, as well as naming Gauntlet some other goofy name. I don't know if this would have much to do with a 7800 mix-up but you made your case well and this certainly could be a possiblity. On the other hand, some games which were discussed in public have never been located: White Water Madness/Wood and Water Rage, Gauntlet, Electrocop. I think Atari would announce some titles, but keep others hidden for various reasons ... licensing, surprise etc. DracIsBack - This was definately a Tramiel habbit. All three of these games began as differently titled working concepts and went through various titles. White Water Madness initially started as a conversion of Atari Games' (Coin-Op Division which by this time was seperate from home consumer and would release home consumer games through the Tengen name) Toobin but ofcourse there were licensing issues. As discussed before, Gauntlet & Electrocop both started development under different titles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+davidcalgary29 Posted October 20, 2004 Share Posted October 20, 2004 Gee, I don't know about that -- at least with respect to Atari's Lynx titles. I know I've read that "Gates of Zendocon" was originally planned with another name (now that would've been a fun 7800 game), and so did "Rampage" ("World Tour Rampage", perhaps?) And didn't "Chip's Challenge" have a slightly different title when it was announced in '89? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Kay Posted October 20, 2004 Share Posted October 20, 2004 Gee, I don't know about that -- at least with respect to Atari's Lynx titles.I know I've read that "Gates of Zendocon" was originally planned with another name (now that would've been a fun 7800 game), and so did "Rampage" ("World Tour Rampage", perhaps?) And didn't "Chip's Challenge" have a slightly different title when it was announced in '89? Found it... October 1989 Video Games and Computer Entertainment and the September 1989 EGM both have the six original Lynx titles featured in their debut Lynx article and at Summer '89 CES. Rampage was and is Rampage, as is Gates of Zendocon, Blue Lightning, and California Games. The other two original titles are first called "Time Quests and Treasure Chests" which later becomes Gauntlet, and "Impossible Mission" which later becomes Electrocop. I know it's a corny connection - but there could be something to my mix-up theory combined with this title-change flip-flop. Cheers! Joey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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