What is this?

[+davidcalgary29]

O.K., I'm wrong.

[Joey Kay]

I know I've read that "Gates of Zendocon" was originally planned with another name (now that would've been a fun 7800 game), and so did "Rampage" ("World Tour Rampage", perhaps?)

 

From the "gaming gossip" section of the Nov. 1989 EGM:

 

"...The Atari Lynx is getting itself well-equipped with titles. Atari has nabbed the license to Gauntlet 3 for their Gem Quest game, and Rampage Deluxe for Monster Demolition. Impossible Mission, an Epyx classic, has been retitled Electrocop!..."

 

And here's an interesting tidbit... Rampage, while announced as Rampage in both magazine articles, has a twist. In the Oct. 89 VC&CE there's a screen shot of some hands holding the Lynx (most certainly a promo shot from Atari) that has a mock-up title screen of Rampage, but it says "Monster Demolition".

 

Cheers!

 

Joey

 

as a footnote - I'm really enjoying this thread!

[Joey Kay]

O.K., I'm wrong.  

 

David... you snuck that post in on me while I was writing my last one...

 

Actually, as that mock-up shot shows you're not wrong with the Rampage title.

 

I wish we had an accurate timeline - here's what we do know about this:

 

1) Rampage was "Monster Demolotion" but by the time the Lynx was reviewed in mainstream publications it was "Rampage"

2) Electrocop and Gauntlet were re-named by the time mainstream mags reviewed the machine.

 

I guess we don't know for sure about Gates of Zendecon...

 

All I can say with certainty is that there was a name-change in the mainstream press for Electrocop and Gauntlet... thus, back to my original half-baked theory of an information pass-along screw-up.

 

Cheers!

 

Joey

[Ferris]

Lol finally something in this thread that we can all agree upon and confirm with existing documentation

 

 

I'm really enjoying this thread too.

[Joey Kay]

2) Electrocop and Gauntlet were NOT re-named by the time mainstream mags reviewed the machine.

(Darn NO EDIT)

[Bruce Tomlin]

No idea.. I've seen it on person only once but there are a few pictures of it out there on the web. I'm pretty sure there is only one Mirai unit that is known of and I am not sure who the owner is. I'd be interested in finding out what the world "Mirai" means... sounds like it would be Japanese for "great wind" or something, you know? lol.

It's Japanese for "future".

[Ferris]

See! That's awesome. That's just the kind of name a company would give an advanced game system of that time as it was well thought-out and forward thinking, just like Genesis as the birth of the 16-Bit Era.

 

Okay so WHAT IS THIS THING? This Mirai thing has driven me nuts forever. So let's take what we already know and try to piece this mother together and figure this thing out. With the name Mirai and the styling of the console we can pretty much determine...

 

.......................................

- The name Mirai is not in keeping with the Warner Atari Inc numerical names (i.e. 2600, 5200, 7800) and with Warner dealing with all three home systems at the time of the sale in 1984 it is highly unlikely the Mirai project was something started at Atari while still under Warner ownership.

 

- The Mirai name is also not in keeping with the "Cat" names the Tramiel Atari Corp liked to use. LYNX launched in 1989 so it is highly likely that this Mirai thing was developed prior to the LYNX.

 

- The Mirai styling is in close keeping with the XE Game Machine using a variety of pastel colors on a two-tone off-white shell. This would pretty much place the Mirai somewhere between 1986 - 1989, most likely closer to '86 as the Panther popped up right around 1990 and 1991.

 

- The Mirai most likely would not have been based off of the XE platform as the cartridge size was a good three to four times larger. Secondly, Atari already had the 7800, 2600, XEGM, XE130 and XE65 computers in their 8-Bit line. There's no way in hell this would have been an 8-Bit Machine. If "Mirai" means "Future" in Japanese, it seems pretty evident that this would have been a high-end expensive game system to pioneer the new market, which in 1986 would have been 16-Bit, three years before the rest.

.......................................

 

 

Okay... so we can deduce that the Mirai was during the Tramiel era before the advent of Lynx and Panther and would have been "the system of tomorrow." We also know that Tramiel was cheap and would not have spent too much developing a totally new 16-Bit set when he had already just put so much into the ST line. Heck the Jaguar is based off of the Falcon, wouldn't it have made sense that the Mirai advanced gaming system of the mid 1980's would have been based off of Tramiel's flagship technology of the day, the ST? That cartridge port sure seems like it could handle it.

 

Anyway, that's my sixty-second conspiracy theory of the day.

[Artlover]

Anyway, that's my sixty-second conspiracy theory of the day.

 

You should get a job at Mythbusters!

[+davidcalgary29]

Okay... so we can deduce that the Mirai was during the Tramiel era before the advent of Lynx and Panther and would have been "the system of tomorrow." We also know that Tramiel was cheap and would not have spent too much developing a totally new 16-Bit set when he had already just put so much into the ST line. Heck the Jaguar is based off of the Falcon, wouldn't it have made sense that the Mirai advanced gaming system of the mid 1980's would have been based off of Tramiel's flagship technology of the day, the ST? That cartridge port sure seems like it could handle it.

 

Anyway, that's my sixty-second conspiracy theory of the day.

 

I agree, as someone (was it Curt?) recently advised that he had found some dox with respect to plans to develop a 16-bit gaming system, as a stop-gap measure between the 7800 and the Panther, which most likely would have utilized ST architecture.

 

That name is troubling, though. It sounds like much more of a Neo*Geo influence than a Tramiel trademark. I bet that the Tramiels secretly engaged with Neo*Geo to develop a new gaming platform -- possibly using the Neo architecture -- and then stole the design and naming concept for a possible planned ST gaming console.

[Ferris]

That name is troubling, though. It sounds like much more of a Neo*Geo influence than a Tramiel trademark. I bet that the Tramiels secretly engaged with Neo*Geo to develop a new gaming platform -- possibly using the Neo architecture -- and then stole the design and naming concept for a possible planned ST gaming console.

 

That's a very good point. The story I had always been told from two people I knew who worked at SNK at the time was that "SNK had an office right acrossed from one of the Atari offices and the two companies started to build a working relationship with eachother until it went sour due to Jack." and that the Mirai would have been based off of the Neo Geo technology. That cartridge bay on the Mirai could have easilly swollowed a Neo Geo cartridge. Jack had gotten the LYNX technology from Epyx so it's not out of the question that he would have gotten some technology from SNK.

 

Thing is... I just don't believe that story so much. I was never able to find one person within Atari who could confirm that in any way. And if he already had some great 16-Bit technology in the ST why throw it away and wait until 1989 when the Neo Geo came out on the market to play around with it. That just seems too late in the game. I'd love to see Curt's documentation though that sounds really neat.

[ApolloBoy]

That Mirai thing, does it have any internal components or is it just a mock up?

 

It's a mockup.

[SteveW]

It could be that SNK were originally going to partner with a North American company to co-produce the Mirai, the same way Atari and Epyx originally co-produced the Lynx, and Namco and Sony originally worked together to produce the PSX. I read recently in Retro Magazine that Sega had talked to a few different companies, including Atari, about co-producing the Genesis. But they couldn't find any takers, so they went it alone. It doesn't seem too unlikely that SNK was designing the Neo*Geo hardware, but they wanted an already established hardware company to do the hardware for the arcade and home versions, because the real money is in software, not hardware. I'm sure that the plan wouldn't have gotten very far, knowing the Tramiels.

[+davidcalgary29]

 I'm sure that the plan wouldn't have gotten very far, knowing the Tramiels.

 

Oh, I don't know about that. Whatever their faults were (and they were many), the Tramiels always did have an excellent eye for innovative hardware. The Lynx, Portfolio, and Jaguar were all excellent systems that would've simply died if they hadn't stolen them away from their respective development teams.

[Joey Kay]

I read recently in Retro Magazine that Sega had talked to a few different companies, including Atari, about co-producing the Genesis. But they couldn't find any takers, so they went it alone.

 

I know I read that AGES ago, too...

 

So, what connections can be found between the Mirai mock-up and a Genesis?

 

Cheers!

 

Joey

[Ferris]

So, what connections can be found between the Mirai mock-up and a Genesis?

 

Cheers!

 

Joey

 

Easy.

 

Atari claimed through legal action against Sega that the Genesis was formed from Atari ST architecture and technology. At the time the Genesis was in development Atari was most likely deep into exploration with regards to the Mirai unit. Atari would have declined Sega's request because either 1.) Atari was already looking into the possibilities with the Mirai and wanted to focus their efforts on their own system, ...or, 2.) Atari had *already* looked into the possibility of launching a 16-Bit ST-based home system and obviously decided against it per the Mirai, and once the kybosh was put on the Mirai project it's highly unlikely that Jack would have wanted to enter into another 16-Bit effort for a competitor which he planed to crush. Between Atari's computer line and the Lynx I'm sure Jack felt that Atari had their hands full at the time. This would leave Sega out in the wind looking for help and, if what Atari claimed in court was true, Sega turned to cannibalizing the ST to conceive the Genesis.

 

That's connection enough.

[Trip_Cannon]

 I'm sure that the plan wouldn't have gotten very far, knowing the Tramiels.

 

Oh, I don't know about that. Whatever their faults were (and they were many), the Tramiels always did have an excellent eye for innovative hardware. The Lynx, Portfolio, and Jaguar were all excellent systems that would've simply died if they hadn't stolen them away from their respective development teams.

 

Marketing was obviously one of them..

[Joey Kay]

At the time the Genesis was in development Atari was most likely deep into exploration with regards to the Mirai unit.

 

Interesting!

 

Baseless speculation time:

 

As we agreed, the timeframe for the Mirai unit (judging from the look) lands it somewhere in the same timeframe that the Genesis would have been under development. After the ST, before the Lynx.

 

Therefore, is it possible that Atari and Sega realized that teaming up against Nintendo may be their best possibility rather than splintering the market between two major competitors? Does the cart slot/general size for the Mirai resemble anything close to a Genesis? Uber-speculation, obviously, that even if the slots or console size are similar means that they were the same.

 

If Sega came into talks late with Atari (late 88, early 89), obviously their hands would be full with Lynx and Atari would have known that they didn't have the resources to debut two machines. If this is the case, then...

 

More likely, Mirai would have been a mock-up for some 16-bit ST based hardware. There was never a shortage of speculation in game press that a 16-bit Atari console would be based on ST architecture.

 

Does anyone know how to get a hold of John Skruch? If anyone would know about this, it would be him.

 

Best

 

Joey

[Ferris]

 

Interesting!

 

Baseless speculation time:

 

As we agreed, the timeframe for the Mirai unit (judging from the look) lands it somewhere in the same timeframe that the Genesis would have been under development.  After the ST, before the Lynx.

 

My guess is the Mirai was early on 1987. That is when Atari was all psyched about the XEGM and the whole XE line and would have thought it a great idea to carry over the same branding and design to the Mirai. This also creates time for the Mirai to be born, explored, and ultimately die before the Lynx came into being and the Panther became the new 16-Bit home console. If my speculation here is correct, this would mean that 1.) the Mirai was being explored sometime in 1986, three years before they made any waves in the American market, and 2.) the Mirai was most likely being considered significantly before Sega was speculating on the Genesis, allowing Atari some time to have sunk their teeth into the Mirai issue before being confronted by Sega and turning them down.

 

 

Therefore, is it possible that Atari and Sega realized that teaming up against Nintendo may be their best possibility rather than splintering the market between two major competitors?

 

You have a point there, and it is possible. However you have to take some fundamental issues into consideration here to make this fit the mold of Atari's reality at the time. Things like "Jack Tramiel's personality" would have a lot to do with something like this. Jack said "Business Is War' and that was his attitude. With the Lynx, he saw little old Epyx struggling looking to sell off their portable technology and he just swept in there and gobbled it up. He had no interest in corporate alliances and playing pansyass games teaming up against Nintendo. That just wasn't the way Jack would play the game. If anything Jack wanted to BE Nintendo not share a throne. It's likely, in my opinion, that Jack wanted nothing to do with helping Sega because either 1.) they were already looking into their own 16-Bit system (the Mirai) and Jack knew that the ST could power this thing to where it needed to be and believed so firmly in the ST architecture that he wasn't going to bend over backwards to "team up with Sega" or... 2.) they had already explored the Mirai possibility and decided against it in favor of who-knows-what-else... the Lynx, Panther, whatever.... and Jack just wasn't interested in something with Sega as they had their own battle plans at the time.

 

I just don't believe it was in Jack's nature to "team up" in something as equal partners. Jack was the kind of guy to find a company that was teetering and glean whatever technology he could get to make Atari successful.

 

Does the cart slot/general size for the Mirai resemble anything close to a Genesis?  Uber-speculation, obviously, that even if the slots or console size are similar means that they were the same.

 

Absolutely not. Sure would make a lot of sense if it did, but this is exactly what had alot of us thinking this was a Neo-Geo deal, where Atari and SNK would team up on something. The system has a huge footprint and that cartridge slot is almost big enough to take in a VHS video cassette tape. But as I said a minute ago, Jack wasn't the type of guy to "team up" with anyone in most cases, one of my primary reasons I personally do not believe this was a SNK/Neo-Geo deal.

 

 

 

More likely, Mirai would have been a mock-up for some 16-bit ST based hardware.  There was never a shortage of speculation in game press that a 16-bit Atari console would be based on ST architecture.

 

Best

 

Joey

 

That's my guess as well. I could very easilly be wrong here but I think all of this speculation somehow fits together like a puzzle in a way that we just can't quite see yet... like a jigsaw puzzle with a few pieces missing, scattered about the floor. We have most of it I'm sure but we just cant put it together.

 

As always, you made some good points though.