Common Misconceptions?

[Marco(2)]

Hi Joe,

 

While you're on the topic, there's something else I'd like to put forward (Roloff has probably bugged you about this already): I think the DPG has grown too big. Personally, I would prefer a guide without sections on NES, VIC20, C64 and the likes. Of course, there are other collectors who are very interested in these.

 

So, the perfect form for the next DPG would be a binder that can hold the systems/sections of your choice. Every collector would buy the binder and the sections they are interested in, and would stay away from all the crap they can do without

 

I have no idea how this translates into costs and revenues and stuff. For me, it sounds like the ultimate Guide. I wonder how others think about this...

 

Cheers,

 

Marco

[videotwit]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Marco:

Personally, I would prefer a guide without sections on NES, VIC20, C64 and the likes. Of course, there are other collectors who are very interested in these.

 

So, the perfect form for the next DPG would be a binder that can hold the systems/sections of your choice. Every collector would buy the binder and the sections they are interested in, and would stay away from all the crap they can do without

---

 

Marco-

 

I personally think this is a fabulous idea! As you said, I'm not so sure it'd be beneficial to the cost on DP's end, but I'd love to have this available on a "Build-Your-Own" basis.

 

[ 11-05-2001: Message edited by: twit ]

[digitalpress]

Marco!

 

That is TOO funny. I was the one who wanted just that - a binder version of Guide 6, with sections that you can purchase separately. Guess what? When put to "the board" (DP staff), it was flatly rejected. Unfortunately, no one but me had seen the old TSR Dungeons & Dragons Monster Manuals (is this SO obscure?), and so couldn't visualize what I had in mind. Also everyone wanted a professional-looking BOOK. I wasn't quite as hung up on that. Quite frankly I just want something that I can USE.

 

I had planned to create a prototype in binder format so I could SHOW my cronies exactly what I had in mind and would ultimately have won them over if not for the fact that other things continually throw themselves in my path and I haven't gotten to it. It's still a possibility for the next edition.

 

Roloff should remember this - in fact, weren't you included in the mails where that argument went on?

[Marco(2)]

Hi Joe,

 

Really?! I thought Roloff was all FOR this (I do know he defenitely wants stuff like NES, C64 and the likes OUT). I didn't see any of the emails, I'm not on the mailinglist.

 

I am pretty sure you can convince the crew with your prototype, so go for it!!

 

Cheers,

 

Marco

[Raccoon Lad]

Maybe you could produce a modular guide, deviding it by age or whatever, and have holes in the edge of the seperate modules so they could be bound by a holder that connects on the spine and has a nice clear plastic cover to protect the sections. Thus producing a fine book that can be adjusted to the needs of a specific collector.

[Ze_ro]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Digital Press:

Example: A game like Custer's Revenge is still considered by many to be a "holy grail" game, but I've seen it by the case. Likewise, Chase the Chuck Wagon is always spoken of with such "untouchable" scarcity, yet there's almost ALWAYS one on eBay, whereas a game like Air Raid is far more scarce and is hardly ever the topic of conversation.

---

 

I don't think this is necessarily incorrect. Air Raid may be incredibly rare, but you have to take into account that there is really no "story" behind the game like there is for games like Quadrun or Chase The Chuckwagon (These were only sold from specific sources... but as far as I know, Air Raid was just a normal game from another bungee-cord Atari company). There's also the fact that the game itself sucks Seriously though... I'd rather have a 9 that is really fun instead of a 10 that I never want to play. The demand for a game is not defined by it's rarity alone.

 

As for taking out NES, VIC20, etc sections... I'd be disappointed if you did... in fact, just the other day I had to ask here if anyone knew where I could find a VIC20 rarity list (I happened to find an 8 by the way). It's obscure systems like these that the rarity guide is more important I think. I've dealt with the Atari enough that I know a rare Atari game if I see it... but I have no clue what's rare and what's not when it comes to the VIC-20.

 

Of course, the binder idea would grant the best of both worlds

 

--Zero

[King Asmo]

I hadn't realized somebody sold an Air Raid recently.. of course, it had to be BuyAtari who snagged it. I sold him three rarity "9" carts, which helped me greatly expand my NES collection. Does anyone know how much he paid for the cart?

 

Does anyone know the last time a Music Machine sold? I haven't seen one on eBay for years... maybe one was sold in a private auction that I wasn't aware of. I'm kind of curious, as it's the centerpiece of my collection.

 

Joe: When are you going to print more 6th edition guides? My 5th edition is getting rather tattered from 3 years of constant use.

[King Asmo]

Oh yeah.. to answer you original question, Joe.

 

I'd say the biggest misconception of scarcity is on 2600 Gas Hog. They're actually not all that hard to find in Canada. I've owned around 10 of them in the last 3 years. Got some really good stuff in return in trade, for them, tho.

 

Are you going to update the NES prices? Like I said, I don't have the 6th edition, only the 5th, so I don't know how much they've been updated in the past. Anyhow, I'd say they're pretty out of whack.

 

From what I've seen, I'd say the hardest regular issue NES game to find, other than Stadium Events is Trolls on Treasure Island. From my experience, it's as rare, if not more rare than the Panesian porn games. That could just be a regional thing, tho A.V.E. games are usually fairly common in Canada and Western New York (where I do most of my hunting).

[cx2k]

quote:

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Originally posted by Marco:

So, the perfect form for the next DPG would be a binder that can hold the systems/sections of your choice. Every collector would buy the binder and the sections they are interested in, and would stay away from all the crap they can do without

---

 

*ACK*

 

Hey Marco, did Joe put you up to saying that??

 

 

 

John

[Albert]

I'd like to cast my vote for the modular binder idea. One thing I'm not crazy about with the DP6 Guide (and Joe, you've heard this already) is the fact that it isn't spiral bound. I like being able to lay the guide flat when I'm looking for info about a game when I'm on eBay or looking at titles in my collection. And having modular sections is a great idea, although I'd have to buy them all since I collect for just about every system you currently have in it. If you were to go this route, I hope you offer some type of package deal for people who want the entire thing.

 

..Al

[+RangerG]

Three cheers for the old AD&D monster manual! The DP guide does not need to be beautiful. I put contact paper on it to protect it and then I let it get as beat up as it can. I like it as a big book, but it might start to be too cumbersome. Personally, I think all consoles belong (that includes NES, SMS, etc.), but I question all the computers. -- RG

[Ze_ro]

quote:

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Originally posted by RangerG:

Personally, I think all consoles belong (that includes NES, SMS, etc.), but I question all the computers. -- RG

---

 

The way I figure it, if it has a cartridge slot, then it should be included... disks somehow don't sit right with me.

 

--Zero

[digitalpress]

Hi all!

Our team is heavily into the overhaul for the next edition of the DP Collector's Guide (quick summary: it's moved to database format so the book itself will be much more consistent across systems).

 

I have a question that I think the gurus of this board can help with:

 

What are some of the common misconceptions you've seen regarding the scarcity/value of particular classic games?

 

Example: A game like Custer's Revenge is still considered by many to be a "holy grail" game, but I've seen it by the case. Likewise, Chase the Chuck Wagon is always spoken of with such "untouchable" scarcity, yet there's almost ALWAYS one on eBay, whereas a game like Air Raid is far more scarce and is hardly ever the topic of conversation.

 

Any insight you can lend from your personal experiences are welcome!

[Alex]

Well, I think the only glaring example is Sunrise Glacier Patrol, that you mentioned in another post. I don't know how that ever made the various lists in the first place, but I've been searching for anyone who owns that for a couple years now. I'm convinced that it doesn't exist, until someone proves me wrong.

 

Other than that, I think most of the misconceptions out there are people just trying to get more money for their games, becuase it's pretty easy to educate yourself these days. Most people who claim CtCW is a "holy grail" don't really care that it isn't, they just want to get the most money they can. There's not much you can do about it.

 

Air Raid is funny though, it may be the rarest production 2600 game in existence. I've seen more Magicards and Video Life's for sale than Air Raid. In fact, I've never seen an Air Raid for sale in all my years, although I heard that Adam (BuyAtari) bought one recently from another collector. Eli's Ladder is another one that's super rare (I've only ever seen one for sale, in the old Devin Knight auction) that isn't talked about too much.

 

It's hard to beat a dog food company selling an Atari game, which is why the notoriety of CtCW persists, IMO.

[digitalpress]

I think you're right, Alex.

 

The problem with compiling a book like this over the course of many years is that you meet lots of "good sources" who swear by it. I've become much more skeptical in recent years, but back when the 2600 list was originally compiled I took it on good faith that the game existed. Of course, that person was never able to provide physical proof. Since, like you, I have not met ANYONE who owns the game, it's gotta get bumped to the Rumor Mill with a giant asterisk: "*Spent SEVEN YEARS on the 'released' list until finally being moved here due to lack of faith"

[Marco(2)]

I've cut back to two categories of rarity: (1) games you *will* acquire in the end (just be patient, the supply is infinite compared to the number of collectors) and (2) games that 95% of collectors will *not* acquire.

 

The first category holds games that used to be considered rare or even extrememly rare, titles like Q*Bert's Qubes, Mangia', Chase the Chuckwagon, Crazy Climber, Waterworld and the likes (maybe even Quadrun and Out of Control). The second category holds UR games and rare prototypes.

 

An elitist thought by a collector "who-has-it-all"? Perhaps, but I do believe that in a couple of years from now, many 2600 collections will consist of the same games. It will be the "Top-10" and obscure games from countries like Brazil and Australia that make the difference.

 

Cheers,

 

Marco

[s-kelly]

A binder?? Joe fought for that before DP6 was released but we beat him to a pulp until he saw things our way.

 

Personally, I love the way #6 is bound. The old spiral bound book looked like something someone put-together in his basement. This just looks so much more professional. If the NES, C64, etc. stuff doesn't interest you, don't look there.

 

About the only thing I don't like about DPG6 is the cover. That's not to say I don't think the artwork is well-done - it is. I just think it should have been some sort of a more "universal" graphic. There far more than just the Atari 2600 in there.

[Stella'sGhost]

I think alot of people sell 2600 carts and lable them Rare, when in fact they are not. Sure, compared to some titles maybe, but often you will see a so-called rare game on Ebay listed 5 times in the same week. I started re aquiring my lost 80's atari 2600 collection 2 years ago (I had about 100 games in 1987, and I thought that was alot at the time - but they were all lost some years ago) and in the process have discovered hundreds of games I never knew existed, this is pretty cool and I look in flea markets for the lost box of atari games hidden in the corner containing several games that I never heard of - (and this has happend to me) however sometimes you spend a lot of cash on a "rare" game only to find it 2 weeks later in a garage sale for 2 dollars. What are you supposed to do about that I wonder.....I realize some titles will never be found in a garage sale, but thats what the internet is for right? That and the psychic friends network, I wonder....

[Albert]

quote:

---

Originally posted by s-kelly:

A binder?? Joe fought for that before DP6 was released but we beat him to a pulp until he saw things our way.

 

Personally, I love the way #6 is bound. The old spiral bound book looked like something someone put-together in his basement. This just looks so much more professional. If the NES, C64, etc. stuff doesn't interest you, don't look there.

---

 

I do agree that DP6 looks more professional than previous efforts. But I don't personally care as much about that as I do about how *useful* the book is. I'd be happier with PD6 if I could lay the book down flat without it trying to close on me, or fold the book around so only one page is visible. Or worrying that the spine is going to crack and pages are going to fall out because I'm exerting too much pressure on the book to keep it open.

 

I have seen professionally printed, spiral bound books and they do look professional. Does anyone remember all the Atari 8-bit books Compute! printed? Many of them were held together with a metal spiral binder, but still had a printed paper "spine" outside of that so you could see the title of the book when sitting on a shelf. Best of both worlds, and they looked well done. I'll need to find one of these books in my storage unit this week (good timing, as I'm moving) and take a picture for those who may not have seen them.

 

..Al

[videotwit]

Yes, a spiral bound book can look very professional.

 

As a matter of fact, I am working on one right now for a client -- spiral bound with die-cut tabbed sections. It'll be beautiful when its printed.

 

Basically, you just need someone who knows what they are doing from a layout perspective, and you're golden. A good graphic designer is key to projects looking professional.

 

Of course, that's my self-serving opinion.

[slapdash]

I have to ring in for the book version of the DP Guide, but I've also suggested to Joe a few times to do smaller volumes with more focus: Classic era consoles, classic era computers, Nintendo-era consoles, 16-bit era consoles. Perhaps add handhelds/electronic games, arcade games, pong/dedicated games, or others for other volumes.

 

Also, remember Joe, you mention the old Monster Manual as an example of the binder principle, but the OLD Monster Manuals were books. Maybe you're just saying that it'll eventually be spiral bound, and then Wizards of the Coast will buy you out?

 

Actually, think about old D&D modules -- relatively thin and could be laid flat, but still looked "professionally" bound. Yet you can have them three-hole punched to fit binders. Hmm... Nice compromise?

 

Of course, I'm waiting for the "Ultimate Guide" where the 2600 list comes on a 2600 cartridge, the Vectrex list on a Vectrex cartridge, etc. (^_^)

[Marco(2)]

I was talking about an upgradable binder, not something like DPG5. I recall a binder on urban planning law that I used during my studies, which needed to be updated quite regularly. When certain parts were out of date, you received a new set of pages. This particular system used subscriptions, but you could also do it on a pay-per-update basis.

 

I imagine the sections in this new DPG would look real professional and glossy. Personally, I would pay the same amount I used to pay for a regular DPG for just an Atari 2600 section that looks real good and that can be (partially) updated once in a while.

 

I think a DPG like that would look *very* professional indeed, and its contents would be custom-made. Sounds like a winner to me

 

Cheers,

 

Marco

[Marco(2)]

quote:

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Originally posted by CX2K:

Hey Marco, did Joe put you up to saying that??

---

 

Heheh, ask him about the whereabouts of his boxed Chase the Chuckwagon...

 

Cheers,

 

Marco

[Sylentwulf]

Personally I'm for the best of both worlds, make some professional nice looking ones like DP6, and make some like DP5 (the modular binder one) Personally, I would buy the professional looking one to put on a bookcase and for things I don't collect much, and I would buy the binder with only the systems I REALLY collect for. It would be great to have a book to look at the pictures, read the articles, and look up things like the C64 and Channel F etc that I don't collect much if at all, and a quick-look-up binder with everything I collect on a daily/weekly basis. Sounds like the best way to go to me anywho!

[bangles66]

I'd like to vote for the spiral book or binder idea.

 

I agree with Albert

It's much easier to put on the desk as it lays flat.

 

Don't get me wrong I love DP 6.

 

As far as having sections that you can and cannot purchase, I'd buy the whole thing even for systems i don't collect for just cause it can be fun to read, and besides if I come accross an item that i don't collect for but is a good deal I'll buy it and use it for trade. so I need to be well informed and I certainly get that from the guide.