Last night in Toys R Us

[Gabriel]

Last night I was at Toys R Us. I had thought about getting Burnout 3 and Outrun 2. The problem being that they didn't have Outrun 2. Plus, the more I browsed, the more I realized I just didn't care to get Burnout 3 at this point. Maybe later.

 

Then a younger couple comes by. They look to be about in their 20s. The guy wants a game and is trying to convince his gal that it's OK and that they can afford it. The girl is trying to convince him to not buy the game, and then she hits upon her argument.

 

"We could just buy a stack of writable DVDs and download a program to copy games. You don't have to spend $50 on a new game."

 

I got more and more sickened as I listened to the rest of the conversation. In short, the guy agreed to the plan of outright piracy, and they left the store, presumably to buy some DVD-Rs and rent some games.

 

I guess I can no longer claim that the common folk are honest customers. I just wanted to walk up to these people and hit them.

[Lost Monkey]

In a similar story, I overheard a Walmart employee bragging to a customer that he had "every" Playstation game made.. all pirated...

 

It's not like they were in the parking lot either.. they were standing in front of the games cabinet and the customer was purchasing a Playstation...

[Ferris]

years ago i used to work in the R-Zone at Toys R Us where they sell games. people would come right up and ask me if we sold pirate discs. "where can i find one of those cds with like every game on them?" as if we sold them there. assuming that people are more likely confused than criminals, I asked if they were refering to the namco museum discs, etc. nope! they wanted pirate discs and thought they could just stroll right in and buy one.

 

some people are just assholes.

[Stingray]

In my experience, most people simply don't understan copyright law, at least not as it applies to software. I think that a huge number of people who want to "copy" a game don't even understand that it's illegal to do so. I'm not saying that everyone who copies games don't know that it's illegal, but a huge number of people are just ignorant of the laws regarding copywritten material.

 

*shrug* I know ignorance is no excuse, but ignorance runs rampant anyway.

 

-S

[toe]

I'm just curious what you guys were up to when the whole Napster fad was going on?...................reason being, i noticed the especially strong language and i was just making sure that no hypocritic things were going on here.

[+Random Terrain]

An appropriate place to whip this out again:

 

Who's in the Software Underground

[Invader_dag]

i have downloaded music and games before, many times, and still do. but i also spend the same amount of money, if not more, on games and cds as i ever have before.

These people are seeing this as an alternative to buying, not an attempt to avoid being shafted by a crappy game company or band.

Take for instance when i got Mission Impossible for the N64. $50, and it turned out to be one ofthe crappiest games i ever played. i couldn`t return it because it was opened. now if i had been able to rent it, which none of the rental places had it at the time, i would have decided not to buy it.

I donwloaded a rom of a game, and really liked it, so i searched for a copy, and it happened to be an import. so i paid close to $90 dollars for a converter and the game. Would i have ever decided it was worth it without that rom? probably not.

I Tunes is the greatest thing now, i only ever download songs when they aren`t on there for purchase, or i can`t find the cd or single and hate the rest of the songs on the album. I didn`t buy cds until i was about 15. and now, a significant portion of my paycheck goes towards them. and i was a big napster user.

I would NOT group people who pirate as a single type of person. Some are just tired of wasting money on crappy products and don`t see a good alternative

[Avid Fan]

I download GBA roms. I known its frowned upon, but its not like I sit there playing the games on my PC (which I actually have to f with for 15 minutes in order to get a rom working), I use it as a rental form. Its how I knew to stay away from stinkers like Daredevil and Mortal Kombat Advanced

[liveinabin]

I remember downloading a ROM of Pokemon yellow to see what all the fuss was about. As a direct result of that bit of piracy, Nintendo went on to make literally thousands of pounds from me. Don't know what's worse, my act of piracy or their selling games made, seemingly, from crack.

[Clock]

So it brings us back to the old question.

 

Does pirating make the games more expensive to the honest consumer?

 

Software publishers tell us that it does but the more expensive it gets the more it gets pirated. Which makes me think that priating software has kept the prices steady for a few years. I am sure if games were half the price then people would pirate half as much (i.e. buy twice as many games).

 

Let's be honest, there are far to many games out there that do not warant the cost and that pisses people off and so they pirate the games instead.

 

To muddy the water futher, how many people here use emulation or have 2600 carts from the far east which are pirates? Sure nobody is making/losing money from this stuff anymore but it is still legal property of someone (in most cases)

[Famicoman]

I used to do all that. Downloading music, until that whole Kazaa bust, and the rom/emulator thing until the selection ran out. I recently learned how to copy playstation discs, but its not like thats useful in a world past playstation.

[hex65000]

I do get people asking questions like How do I copy my playstation discs? Can you do it? Do you have that Dreamcast CD with almost a thousand games? Etc.

 

I tell them that these things can be done, but I can't help them do it because it's ILLEGAL. (yes, I say it that way too.)

 

The piracy culture has gone a fair distance and is now more on making copies for profit. The publishers now also have much stronger laws to beat on western piracy. In the old days you'd swipe a ware at 14.4/16.8hst and move it around your area to keep the goods flowing. If you did get busted, you were running way to high a profile or you were breaking the law in in some other unwise way and piracy was just a tack-on charge.

 

The only ROMs I actively have in my collection only is the NES DC emulator. I just don't like dorking with an insane # of bulky NES carts and the inherent instability of the Toaster oven NES. I would never choose to sell copies of the disc I made up. And when I'm questioned about getting copies I just tell folks that there's this search engine called Google -- use it. I do have a small collection of NES carts (I think I'm at around 40 of 50 now) that just didn't emulate well or I didn't have the ROM and I'm too lazy to hunt down a working copy. My NES really doesn't get a lot of milage from me.

 

I'm sure that there are guys selling this stuff for big money to foolish humans. That was always the big line for me -- the sale of it.

 

Then there are the fuzzy edges of legality that I don't ever feel bad about:

 

-- my legal copy has been destroyed and I want an inexpensive replacement.

-- I wish to play legal original copies of games from other countries at home (without moving or owning 3 of the same basic system) ; Imports

-- I wish to put my game on a different type of media and keep the original safe from potential damage. ; 'backups' or as I prefer now my PS2 hard drive.

 

The game makers frown on these things, but in reality none of them really hurt their business. It's the next logical step of 'backups' that makes them twitch like a hummingbird in a coffeepot.

 

Hex.

[ Remembers his ancient 'glory days' as a Teenage Mutant Ninja Pirate... ]

[msaeger]

I have witnessed this also I think they know it's illegal but they don't care because they are tightwads.

 

I also thing there are poeple that steal software, music, and games just for entertainment and don't really care about the content. Like look at the people paying 300 dollars for an XMPCR on ebay and 10 bucks a month so they can record the songs from XM.

 

The only things I download / trade are concert recordings, music from artists websites they are offering for free, and a few old / unavilable games like earthbound for nes or some mame stuff.

[shep]

I think they know its illegal to. But a lot people just see it almost as a childrens toy, and nothing really will be done about it. Like ripping off the tag on your mattress on your bed.

[chairmonkey4406]

I don't care.

[Brad2600]

I told the guy running the warez booth in the mall that Nintendo was going to be cracking down on the "emulators in a controller" like the Super Joy and so forth. He just shrugged like he didn't care.

[Lost Monkey]

I told the guy running the warez booth  in the mall that Nintendo was going to be cracking down on the "emulators in a controller" like the Super Joy and so forth. He just shrugged like he didn't care.

 

Maybe he was "chairmonkey442"?

 

Hey chairmonkey was that you that Kepone saw at the mall?

[Brad2600]

No.

 

I live in VT..LOL.

 

The guy doesnt' really care though. I hope he realizes that Nintendo will be breathing down his neck soon. I'd hate to be a sucker like that.

[Lost Monkey]

No.

 

I live in VT..LOL.

 

The guy doesnt' really care though. I hope he realizes that Nintendo will be breathing down his neck soon. I'd hate to be a sucker like that.  

 

The more you say he doesn't care, the more I think it was chairmonkey.

 

Hmmm...

[Shannon]

My only concern with piracy recentally is that you have a whole generation growing up thinking they can get this stuff free, being very blatant about it (see originating msg).

 

I personally police myself. I buy they titles that catch my interest constantly. But I've heard stories where teens would go up to musicians after a concert and ask them if they could return a legitemitly purchased CD because they downloaded a copy off the net.

 

I mean, how lame can one get..

[mechanized]

I'd say that Piracy can be as strong a word as it can be apt.

 

Me, I've some ROMs. I'm not an emulator fiend, really; for more of an example, I still use NESticle, which is considered by many to be old and bad. I keep emulators for NES, SNES, Genesis, GameGear, and I think I have that Callus Arcade thingy, and TurboGrafx16. Why, though?

 

1) Research. Just like when I used Napster, much of my emulation/ROM usage is done for research. Like many of you, I'm just not interested in dropping $15-20 on a CD (or $50 for a game!) and risk it sucking and my not being able to return it. I was barely ten years old, buying my second NES game, finding out it sucked and I wasted quite a bit of effort shoveling snow and saving change - that's all it took to switch me from a New Release Buyer and a Magazine/Word of Mouth/Clearance/Used buyer. I have enough bum CD purchases in my possession to fill a few shoe boxes, I'm sure - and at minimally $10 a pop, that adds up pretty fast and a dissatisfied consumer creates. I'd say, in the past ten years, I've bought about as many disks (or asked for them from others).

 

2) Research Part 2. As my list of emulators should indicate, most of my interest is in the older stuff. Now, my use of an emulator, I truly believe, does not adversely influence any profits a company could gain from the secondary market; they've sold their product once, they can't repossess it and sell it again, they cannot glean further royalties from secondary sale of said product. It doesn't weigh heavily on my conscience, I use the emulators to figure out which old titles are worth keeping an eye out for at yard sales and the like, and which I can live without. Ones I can live without can... also... not take up space on my harddrive, and don't stick around long. Ones I'd like to own I eventually do own, at which point a ROM is an optional play interface or a backup, and I fully support that consumers should be able to backup their software considering its occasionally fickle and constantly aging nature.

 

3) Optional Playing Interface. Touched on briefly above, there are occasionally games or systems that do not mix well. Example - I can't stand playing Metroid, Castlevania, or Mega Man games on a GameBoy, even more so with more recent iterations. Screen's too small, the subtle movements of my hands when I press buttons toying with the light on the screen versus the acceptable level of glare, on and on. I got a GameBoy Player for this, bought a Super GameBoy before that (and one day, hopefully they'll make a wholly autonomous GameBoy unit for Television! Please!) but some systems didn't get such treatment, like the GameGear.

 

4) Emulators as Preferrable Interface. Sometimes, games come around that are good, but are fundamentally flawed in some dumbass way. A notable example would be Dungeons & Dragons: Warriors of the Eternal Sun for the Genesis - a great game, but with a pseudo-Save Feature that would save the game, but once the system was turned off ...it wasn't retained due to a lack of battery (this is, in a word, stupid, for a D&D game or any RPG genre title, as they're typically lengthy). Save States in emulators are very, very handy for this kind of title. Heck, they're useful in general, as they're (in theory) going to be ultimately reliable for data retention versus a battery backed cartridge or a memory card (yep, those'll wear out, one day, too!).

 

Truly, what the big game companies should be doing, is getting these emulator programmers together to make official emulator programs for various systems, sell them as an emulator software package for like $20 with a selection of game titles, and then provide an online download system for like a buck a game (and really, as the entire piracy thing has shown, people will not reliably pay much more than that - no $3 Donkey Kong or $5 Super Mario Bros 2 and the cheapie $1 Clu Clu Land, but one slim dollar across the board with no misconceptions of ROM value).

 

Oh, hey, I haven't seen this episode of Roseanne..

[JB]

I'd say that Piracy can be as strong a word as it can be apt.

 

Me, I've some ROMs.  I'm not an emulator fiend, really; for more of an example, I still use NESticle, which is considered by many to be old and bad.  

It's not bad because it's old. It was bad when it was still in development too. In the day, Loopy and FWNES kicked it's ass.

 

Now they've taken a back seat to apps like FCEUltra, NESTopia, and VirtuaNES.

But unlike NESticle, they're still viable emulators for many purposes.