Commodore 64 direct-to-TV w/30 games is here!

[MegaManFan]

Well technically the C64-on-a-chip emulates what a full-sized Commodore 64 does, 100% faithfully, so that you can run real C64 software on it.

[kevin242]

Well technically the C64-on-a-chip emulates what a full-sized Commodore 64 does, 100% faithfully, so that you can run real C64 software on it.

 

a couple of people on this thread have referred to the C64DTV as

emulating, but isnt it actual hardware (just reduced to less chips),

so it's not really an emulator right? Conceptionally is it any different

then the later revisions of computers/consoles that reduced the

amount of chips to save on manuf costs?

[MegaManFan]

Since the sound isn't 100% the same as a real SID, I'd say no.

[Flojomojo]

I'm no programmer or electrical engineer, but I'd say:

 

- The Atari Flashback is a SIMULATION. It runs entirely different code on entirely different hardware. The programmers attempted to make it look like the original games, but technically it is no more faithful than the Atari VCS port of Pac-Man is to the original arcade version.

 

- The C64 is NEITHER simulation NOR emulation. It runs slightly modified versions of the original code, on modern hardware that mimics the original hardware. I don't think that the C64-on-a-chip is technically "hardware emulation," but we're on semantic battleground here, and I'm out of my depth, so ...

 

I'll post this drivel I found on the Usenet instead. These guys put the Commodore unit up against the Atari Flashback in a head-to-head comparison, complete with bullet points that could make an uninformed person think the Flashback is remotely close to being as entertaining as the C64DTV. Whoops, there goes my opinon again. Anyway, here comes the quote...

 

---------- Forwarded message ----------

Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 02:27:50 -0500

From: [email protected]

Subject: Computer Collector Newsletter

 

>> WELCOME TO THE COMPUTER COLLECTOR E-MAIL NEWSLETTER

>> W: http://news.computercollector.com E: [email protected]

>> Vol. 3, Issue 46: Dec. 20, 2004: News/opinion, tidbits, classifieds

 

 

 

****************************************

NEWS & OPINION

 

Product review: Atari Flashback versus Commodore 64 30-in-1

 

 

The popularity of "TV games" -- the usually battery-powered class of

devices with a fixed number of built-in videogames that plug directly

into the inputs of a television set -- has exploded over the past

couple of years. TV games have a simple plug-and-play appeal and an

impulse-purchase pricing point. The obvious mass appeal of these

devices has manufacturers looking for ways to either out-do each other

in value or to appeal to niche audiences with nostalgia. Two of the

latest, the Atari Flashback and the Commodore 64 30-in-1, accomplish

each goal with varying degrees of success.

 

 

Atari overview

 

 

The Atari Flashback comes in a colorful, oversized box, but the system

itself and the two detachable controllers are surprisingly tiny. The

console is about the size of a modern phone answering machine and

features a nice selection of 15 Atari 2600 games plus and five Atari

7800 games. The 2600 games are Adventure, Air-Sea Battle, Battlezone,

Breakout, Canyon Bomber, Crystal Castles, Gravitar, Haunted House,

Millipede, Saboteur, Sky Diver, Solaris, Sprintmaster, Warlords, and

Yars' Revenge. The 7800 games are Asteroids, Centipede, Desert

Falcon, Charley Chuck's Food Fight (originally just called Food

Fight), and Planet Smashers.

 

 

All 20 games are Atari properties, so no other manufacturer is

represented in this collection, and most are easy to find for their

original consoles. The exceptions are Sprintmaster and Planet

Smashers, which are both notable for being among the last games

officially released for their platforms, and Saboteur, the technically

unreleased game from E.T. and Yars' Revenge creator Howard Scott

Warshaw (although copies were available at last spring's PhillyClassic

5 event). It's also notable that the Flashback was created with the

help of Curt Vendel, the well-known Atari historian (visit his site at

http://www.atariage.com).

 

 

It is important to note that while the original Atari 7800 had

superior visuals compared to the Atari 2600, they both shared the same

sound chip. In fact, the Atari 7800 was almost completely backwards

compatible with the Atari 2600, hence the logic behind modeling the

system design on the 2600's lesser-known sibling and including games

for both.

 

 

In a rare move for a TV game design, the Flashback does not have the

ability to run on batteries, only with the included AC adapter,

limiting its portability. After plugging in the AC adapter, the

composite video and mono audio cables, and one or two of the

joysticks, the unit is ready to be powered on. After a short

introduction screen, the game selection menu is displayed. Any of the

alphabetically listed 20 games is selectable, as is a brief Atari

history. The included instruction manual does a nice job of

explaining the operation of the unit and how to play each game.

 

 

Holding the diminutive joystick in your hand, against all logic, the

first thing you'll notice is how well it seems to fit. Unlike the

Atari 7800's somewhat bulky controller, the Flashback's feels just

right. Also, unlike the 7800 controller's awkward stick and stiff

fire buttons, the Flashback's is highly responsive, which is

practically a revolution in the world of TV games, where overall

controller quality is often overlooked. Even games that originally

required Atari's paddle controllers, like Breakout, Canyon Bomber and

Warlords, work as well with the included controllers as could be

reasonably expected with a joystick, except for the paddle's unique

ability to accelerate quickly. (Despite the joystick connections

externally looking the same as the original systems, the internal

wiring is different, so the included controllers are the only option.)

 

 

One upside to the proprietary nature of the controllers is the fact

that the pause select buttons are now on the front of the joysticks

rather than the console itself. The rest button makes you reach for

the main console, but at least that way you can't cancel your high-

scoring game by accident while playing! Finally, unlike the standard

single-player nature of other TV games, the Flashback's allow

authentic multiplayer gaming for every game that supports it, except

for Warlords'' unique ability to originally support four simultaneous

players with two sets of paddles.

 

 

Where the Flashback fails is also where other TV games fail -- the

quality of the emulation of the original system's abilities. Whether

it was the rumored short development cycle, insufficient processing

power, or some other reason, these games are markedly different than

their original 7800 and 2600 counterparts. The Flashback version of

Asteroids, for example, has washed-out colors, elongated (almost

oblong) asteroid graphics, and poor sound. Add to this the fact that

the player's ship moves too fast and the asteroids move too slow, and

you have a recipe for disappointment whether you're aware of the

original version or not. The Atari 2600 games on the Flashback seem

to fare a little better, but overall the presentation of all the games

leaves something to be desired.

 

 

Commodore overview

 

 

The Commodore 64 30-in-1 Classic Plug & Play Video Game (or simply

Commodore 64 30-in-1) comes in a pyramidal plastic housing for

packaging. The instruction manual isn't as detailed and glossy as

Atari's version, but then again, Atari is a bigger company and has

more resources for such things. Nevertheless the C64 manual describes

the system and games in sufficient detail, albeit in very tiny print.

 

 

The 30-in-1 runs exclusively on four AA batteries which makes it more

portable than the Flashback but requires the use of a screwdriver to

access the battery compartment. That's not a bid deal though. (As

with the Atari's reset button location, you could even argue that the

screwed-on cover vs. a standard slide-off cover is actually a good

thing, since a player can't accidentally slip off the cover during

intense game play.) After placing the batteries and connecting the

included composite video and mono audio cables, the unit is ready for

action.

 

 

When the 30-in-1 starts, after a few credit screens, the Commodore

64's familiar blue basic prompt screen appears and the classic

Load"*", "8,1', and 'Run' commands are automatically typed and

executed. This is where you have the epiphany: it's not emulation

inside; there actually is a real Commodore 64 coded inside! (The

possibilities for hackers are endless and there is a whole web site

devoted to this subject at http://www.dtvhacking.info - there are

details of how to add keyboards, drives, and other joysticks, and how

to find Easter Eggs, etc.) However, as cool as having the "real" C64

inside is, after a while it does get annoying to have to wait for the

screen just to change the game selection.

 

 

The game choices are Bull Riding, Championship Wrestling, Cyberdyne

Warrior, Cybernoid, Cybernoid II, Eliminator, Exolon, Firelord, Flying

Disk, Gateway to Apshai, Impossible Mission, Impossible Mission 2,

Jumpman Junior, Paradroid, Pitstop, Pitstop 2, Ranarama, Silicon

Warrior, Speedball, Summer Games, Super Cycle, Sumo, Surfing, Sword of

Fargoal, Tower Toppler, Uridium, Winter Games, World Karate

Championship (versions A and B), and Zynaps.

 

 

Technically there are 30 games, but some unusual decisions were made

to reach that total. Bull Riding and Sumo are events from within

World Games, and Flying Disk and Surfing are events from California

Games. Neither World Games nor California Games are included in their

entirety, but Summer Games and Winter Games are. There are multiple

versions of other games. Regardless, it's an impressive number of

games for a device of this type.

 

 

The controller itself is self-contained with all functions on the same

device. There are two large main action buttons (C-64 joysticks only

always had one), a smaller reset button, and four auxiliary buttons,

labeled A-D, in order to replace the C-64's keyboard functions for

certain games.

 

 

When the game selection menu appears - in what is surely another nod

to original C-64 fans - the list of games appears on a moving star

field with energetic background music and scrolling credits at the

bottom, bringing to mind the demo screens pirates and hackers of the

day would develop to try and outdo one another in demonstrating their

mastery of the hardware.

 

 

If you're familiar with the original games, you may be surprised at

what appears. For instance, with Impossible Mission, after the title

screen, the famous elevator sequence displays with your nemesis

Elvin's voice saying, "Another visitor. Stay a while, stay forever!"

What's surprising is that everything looks and sounds almost exactly

like the original, certainly better than any other TV game to date. A

sure a lot of this has to do with Jeri Ellsworth's (creator of the

CommodoreOne Reconfigurable Computer at http://c64upgra.de) intimate

involvement in the project, since it was one of her goals to

accurately recreate the C-64 on modern hardware. Based on the

accuracy of the emulation in this low cost consumer product, that's a

realistic goal.

 

 

With a large and diverse selection of accurately presented games,

what's not to like? Unfortunately, a classic TV game Achilles' heel

has found its way into the 30-in-1. The control stick, the heart of

the unit, has too much "throw" (the distance the stick has to travel

to interpret a direction) and does not accurately register directions.

For example, in Sword of Fargoal, moving diagonally, left or right, up

or down, was often an exercise in frustration as the character would

be moved left into a wall rather than up as intended. This movement

inaccuracy is present in every game, though some games are slightly

more forgiving of this flaw due to their basic design, such as the

racing game Pitstop. In light of all the good things about this unit,

including the action buttons, this is a serious let down.

 

 

The results

 

 

The Commodore 64 30-in-1 is available exclusively from QVC

(http://tinyurl.com/3nond) and is priced at $30.00 for one unit or

$52.00 for two. See here (http://www.mammothtoys.com/products.htm)

and here (copy and past the link so it doesn't break --

http://www.commodoreworld.com/Site/Desktop...&prod=17&cat=1).  Meanwhile, the Atari

Flashback is available at many major retailers (ours came from Game

Stop) and priced as low as $39.99. See the details at Atari's site

here (again, we suggest copying and pasting the link --

 

http://corporate.infogrames.com/corp_press...op=story&sid=54

.

 

Price: The 30-in-1 is at least $10 less, but also lacks direct support

for two simultaneous players that the Flashback has. Winner: Draw

 

 

Number of Games: The 30-in-1 has more games, even though it's

debatable if there are really 30. Winner: Commodore 64 30-in-1 (We

didn't judge the actual game selection, because that is highly

subjective, considering the huge amount of games ever made for the

original systems.)

 

 

Features: The Flashback features detachable controllers, AC power, and

two player simultaneous support. The 30-in-1 features an all-in-one

unit, battery power, hidden content, and the ability to hack the unit

for expanded functionality. Winner: Commodore 64 30-in-1

 

 

Playability: The Flashback features a simple and quick-to-access menu

system and excellent control. The 30-in-1 has a slow-to-start menu

and poor directional control. Winner: Atari Flashback

 

 

Hardware Construction: The Flashback, despite its small size, feels

solid and works well. The 30-in-1 feels solid but the control stick

lacks precision. Winner: Atari Flashback

 

 

Graphics and Sound: The 30-in-1 emulates the original games almost

perfectly. The Atari Flashback fails to properly recreate the

graphics, sound, and speed of the original hardware. Winner:

Commodore 64 30-in-1

 

 

Overall: The 30-in-1 contains almost 30 full games whose depth

benefits from originally being on a game-centric computer. The

Flashback contains 20 full games that err on the simple pick-up-and-

play side as befits their console origins. The Flashback supports two

players at once on certain games, while the 30-in-1 does not. The 30-

in-1 will be of particular interest to those who wish to hack the

unit. The major downside to the 30-in-1 is the control stick, while

the major downside to the Flashback is the emulation.

 

 

Final Verdict: While the Flashback controls better, the actual games

are so poorly implemented that much of the fun is diminished. However

some customers may find the Flashback's games more familiar.

Alternately, the 30-in-1 controls poorly, but the games are presented

basically as they were meant to be. With more games that are

rarely available elsewhere and a price point that's at least $10 less,

the Commodore 64 30-in-1 wins this review over the Flashback.

 

 

(Please see our web site, http://news.computercollector.com, for

pictures of both systems.)

 

 

-- by Evan Koblentz and Bill Loguidice

 

 

[Editor's note: Bill Loguidice is editor of Armchair Arcade, on the

web at http://www.armchairarcade.com. A version of the review will

appear in the next issue of that publication as well.]

 

****************************************

HAPPY VINTAGE COMPUTING!

 

Hey everyone, don't forget that you can skip the loadup screen by whaling on an action button. Point: C64.

[kevin242]

interesting point but if the C64 DTV is emulated or mimicing real

hardware then is the atari XEGS a real atari 8bit? What about the

later versions of the C64 and 128? They also used reduced chips

and would of prob loved to have DTV type board if it were possible

back then. As far as the SID chip, I am not a Commodore 8bit expert

but I understand all SID chips sound somewhat unique.

 

About that review, I dont have a DTV yet so I was wondering if all the

joysticks have the same responce problem as the one the reviewer

had? Is it really as bad as he says (ie. C64 DTV vs. Flashback) ??

[Flojomojo]

About that review, I dont have a DTV yet so I was wondering if all the  

joysticks have the same responce problem as the one the reviewer  

had?   Is it really as bad as he says (ie.  C64 DTV vs. Flashback) ??

Nah, it's fine. The joystick isn't the most comfortable in the world but it's certainly on par with the rest of the stuff from the C64's time.

[Flojomojo]

BTW, in case you missed it, the creator of the DTV unit was featured in the New York Times! Great article follows:

 

December 20, 2004

A Toy With a Story

By JOHN MARKOFF  

 

AMHILL, Ore. - There is a story behind every electronic gadget sold on the QVC shopping channel. This one leads to a ramshackle farmhouse in rural Oregon, which is the home and circuit design lab of Jeri Ellsworth, a 30-year-old high school dropout and self-taught computer chip designer.

 

Ms. Ellsworth has squeezed the entire circuitry of a two-decade-old Commodore 64 home computer onto a single chip, which she has tucked neatly into a joystick that connects by a cable to a TV set. Called the Commodore 64 - the same as the computer system - her device can run 30 video games, mostly sports, racing and puzzles games from the early 1980's, all without the hassle of changing game cartridges.  

 

She has also included five hidden games and other features - not found on the original Commodore computer - that only a fellow hobbyist would be likely to appreciate. For instance, someone who wanted to turn the device into an improved version of the original machine could modify it to add a keyboard, monitor and disk drive.

 

Sold by Mammoth Toys, based in New York, for $30, the Commodore 64 joystick has been a hot item on QVC this Christmas season, selling 70,000 units in one day when it was introduced on the shopping channel last month; since then it has been sold through QVC's Web site. Frank Landi, president of Mammoth, said he expected the joystick would be distributed next year by bigger toy and electronics retailers like Radio Shack, Best Buy, Sears and Toys "R" Us. "To me, any toy that sells 70,000 in a day on QVC is a good indication of the kind of reception we can expect," he said.

 

Ms. Ellworth's first venture into toy making has not yet brought her great wealth - she said she is paid on a consulting basis at a rate that is competitive for her industry - "but I'm having fun," she said, and she continues with other projects in circuit design as a consultant.  

 

Her efforts in reverse-engineering old computers and giving them new life inside modern custom chips has already earned her a cult following among small groups of "retro" personal computer enthusiasts, as well as broad respect among the insular world of the original computer hackers who created the first personal computers three decades ago. (The term "hacker" first referred to people who liked to design and create machines, and only later began to be applied to people who broke into them.)

 

More significant, perhaps, is that in an era of immensely complicated computer systems, huge factories and design teams that stretch across continents, Ms. Ellsworth is demonstrating that the spirit that once led from Silicon Valley garages to companies like Hewlett-Packard and Apple Computer can still thrive.

 

"She's a pure example of following your interests and someone who won't accept that you can't do it," said Lee Felsenstein, the designer of the first portable PC and an original member of the Homebrew Computer Club. "She is someone who can do it and do it brilliantly."

 

Ms. Ellsworth said that chip design was an opportunity to search for elegance in simplicity. She takes her greatest pleasure in examining a complex computer circuit and reducing it in cost and size by cleverly reusing basic electronic building blocks.

 

It is a skill that is as much art as science, but one that Ms. Ellsworth has perfected, painstakingly refining her talent by plunging deeply into the minutiae of computer circuit design.  

 

Recently she interrupted a conversation with a visitor in her home to hunt in between the scattered circuit boards and components in her living room for a 1971 volume, "MOS Integrated Circuits," which she frequently consults. The book concerns an earlier chip technology based on fewer transistors than are used today. "I look for older texts," she said. "A real good designer needs to know how the old stuff works."

 

Several years ago Ms. Ellsworth cornered Stephen Wozniak, co-founder of Apple Computer, at a festival for vintage Apple computers and badgered him for the secrets of his Apple II floppy disk controller.

 

"I was very impressed with her knowledge of all this stuff, and her interest too," recalled Mr. Wozniak, whose fascination with hobbyist computers three decades ago helped create the personal computer industry.

 

She attributes her passion for design simplicity to her youth in Dallas, Ore., 35 miles south of Yamhill, where she was raised by her father, Jim Ellsworth, a mechanic who owned the local Mobil station.

 

She became a computer hobbyist early, begging her father at age 7 to let her use a Commodore 64 computer originally purchased for her brother, and then learning to program it by reading the manuals that came with the machine.

 

In a tiny rural town without access even to a surplus electronics store, her best sources of parts were the neighborhood ham radio operators. She learned to make the most of her scarce resources.  

 

"It goes back to necessity," she said. "It went back to not having enough parts to design with when I was a kid."

 

Her first business foray came during high school when she began designing and selling the dirt-track race cars that she had been driving with her farther. Using his service station as a workshop, she was soon making so much money selling her custom race cars that she dropped out of high school.

 

It was fun for several years, she said, but eventually she decided that she needed to get away from the race car scene. A friend had an early Intel 486-based PC and thought they could make money assembling and selling computers. She decided he was right: "I looked at the margins and it seemed like a great way to make money."

 

They went into business together in 1995, but soon had a falling out and split up. For a short time Ms. Ellsworth considered leaving the computer business. Instead, she opened a store near that of her former partner, then drove him out of business. Ultimately her store became a chain of five Computers Made Easy shops in small towns.

 

"My business model was to find areas that were far enough away from the big cities where the larger stores were," she said. "I could generate a lot of loyalty and charge a bit more. It worked out well for quite a while."

 

Eventually, the collapsing price of the PC made it impossible to survive, she said, and in 2000 she sold off her stores.

 

"When the machines got down to $75 margins, then even putting a technician on the phone to answer a question meant you were almost losing money," she said.

 

Free from her business obligations, she decided to return to her first love - hobbyist electronics. She was eager to study computer hardware design, but soon found that there weren't many options for a high school dropout.  

 

She moved to Walla Walla, Wash., and began attending Walla Walla College, a Seventh Day Adventist school that offered a circuit design program. Her attempt at a formal education lasted less than a year, however. She was a cultural mismatch for the school, where she said questioning the professors' answers was frowned upon.

 

"I felt like a wolf in sheep's clothing," she said.

 

On her own again, Ms. Ellsworth decided to pursue her passion, designing computer circuits that mimicked the behavior of her first Commodore. She turned to a series of mentors and availed herself of free software design tools offered by chip companies.

 

Her hobby produced a chameleon computer called the C-1. Changing its basic software could make it mimic not only a Commodore 64, but ultimately more than nine other popular home computers of the early 1980's, including the Atari, TI, Vic and Sinclair.

 

Two years ago she showed it off at the Hackers' Conference, an annual meeting of some of the nation's best computer designers. To her surprise, she received a rousing ovation - and a series of job offers.

 

One person who took notice was Andrew Singer, a computer scientist who is chief executive of Rapport Inc., a start-up based in Mountain View, Calif.

 

Mr. Singer contracted with Ms. Ellsworth as a consultant and has since found that she has abilities that engineers with advanced degrees often do not.

 

"It's possible to get a credential and not have passion," he said. He compared Ms. Ellsworth to Mr. Wozniak and to Burrell Smith, the hardware designer of the original Macintosh. Neither had formal training when they made their most significant contributions at Apple.

 

Ms. Ellsworth was also discovered by Mammoth toys, which hired her to design the Commodore-emulating chip for the joystick. She began the project late last June and finished, including a frantic last-minute trip to a Chinese manufacturing factory, in early September - a design sprint fueled by Mountain Dew and 20-hour days.

 

"It worked out tremendously well for our company," said Mr. Landi, president of Mammoth. "It has entirely changed the way we design electronic toys." He said that he has signed Ms. Ellsworth up for a series of design projects, although he would not divulge the financial details.  

 

Old-fashioned video games like the ones on Ms. Ellsworth's product have become less common recently because kids have grown jaded and expect a "wow" factor, like intense graphics or realistic images that older computers could not produce, said Shyam Nagrani, principle consumer electronics analyst for iSupply, a market research firm based in El Segundo, Calif. He added, however, "The parents are likely to pick this up and say, 'Why not? The kids may like it.'"  

 

When the C64, as the joystick is called informally, appeared on QVC last month, Ms. Ellsworth watched with obvious pride.

 

"It was one of one of the best projects I've ever done in my life," she said. "It was a tribute back to the computer that started it all for me."

 

[Big Player]

I've never played any C64 games (I had an 800XL) but after hearing about how it's a C64 on a chip, I've got to get one.

 

Too bad more of these stand alone units can't be like this.

[heavy-sixer]

Wow! That New York Times article is pretty good and inspirational, too.

[MacbthPSW]

Well technically the C64-on-a-chip emulates what a full-sized Commodore 64 does, 100% faithfully, so that you can run real C64 software on it.

It really isn't doing any emulation, unless you consider a C128 or a SX64 or a C64GS to also be emulators. Each one is mostly compatible with the other, but I could write a program for each one that would work on only one and crash (or behave differently, or whatever) on the others. There has been variety in the exact make-up of each of these units throughout their production. I think the C64DTV belongs in this same family of hardware.

 

Since the sound isn't 100% the same as a real SID, I'd say no.

There were two major versions of the SID during the 64's lifetime, the 6581 and the 8580 - both have distinct sounds and capabilities, though they may be subtle. It's possible to make a program that makes a sound on one SID, and is pretty much silent on another. Even within the two major models, there were numerous revisions, and even differences within different batches. So again, I don't think having a different sounding SID automatically disqualifies the DTV.

[MacbthPSW]

About that review, I dont have a DTV yet so I was wondering if all the joysticks have the same responce problem as the one the reviewer had?   Is it really as bad as he says (ie.  C64 DTV vs. Flashback) ??

I've got 4 DTVs now, and the joysticks seem to vary - one is really good, two are okay, and one is fairly crappy. The crappy one seems to be too touchy - like, the range of motion for the diagonals is too big, and you have to be very precise to go due east or west. Oh well, I'm just going to take that one apart to hack it anyway (I hear QVC is quite good for offering exchanges/refunds if you do get a lemon, but not if you've taken it apart ).

 

BTW, check out http://dtvhacking.info/ for more DTV hacking info.

[moycon]

My stick arrived Xmas day!!

While the control does seem a bit touchy, it's not too bad.

The games are spot on and so far I've had a blast with it.

[Rockin' Kat]

Hey,

 

Somoene else posted a link to some pics of their modded DTV stick to the C= mailing list I'm on... A keyboard port and a seral port for drives... pretty cool. If I didn't already have a C64 and an SX-64 I'd seriously consider getting one of these things.

 

 

http://members.toast.net/mr%5Fmegabyte/

[ATARIeric]

cool pics to start i guess it really is a c64 on a chip ?

 

i hope there will be pics of it opened up with how it is wired together plus seeing it hooked up to the tv and playing a game that isnt stored on the stick

[ATARIeric]

Hey,

 

Somoene else posted a link to some pics of their modded DTV stick to the C= mailing list I'm on... A keyboard port and a seral port for drives... pretty cool.  If I didn't already have a C64 and an SX-64 I'd seriously consider getting one of these things.

 

http://members.toast.net/mr%5Fmegabyte/

[kevin242]

I had an Atari 400 and later 130xe as a kid, so I never played most of the

games on the c64 stick, but I've had it for a couple days and it's been alot

of fun! My only complaint is there has got to be some better games then

"Bull Ridin" "Sumo wrestling" etc... I would say about the half the games

are a little weak and could prob been relpaced with something better.

 

 

I will definitly buy a sequel to this or if they make a Amiga version or

Atari 800 version whatever... it's a great toy.

 

 

One question is Jumpman Jr harder ont he 64 then the 800 or do I just

remember wrong???

[Cybergoth]

Hi there!

 

My only complaint is there has got to be some better games then "Bull Ridin" "Sumo wrestling" etc...

 

These are no original standalone games, but single events extracted from "World Games".

 

Greetings,

Manuel

[Laner]

Same with "Flying Disc" and some other game taken from California Games.

 

Unfortunately, with the C64, many of the best games are IPs of EA, and we all know how reasonable they are.

[Cybergoth]

Hi there!

 

Unfortunately, with the C64, many of the best games are IPs of EA, and we all know how reasonable they are.

 

Can't agree with this. The current C64 DTV selection is composed out of Epyx and Hewson titles, both excellent companies which IHMO have a much better C64 back-catalogue than EA.

 

There's a lot of other companies on par with or better than EA, regarding their C64 output only: Palace, Thalamus, System 3, Cinemaware, Microprose, Rainbow Arts, Lucasarts, Firebird, Ocean...

 

Also, on the C64 EA was largely acting as a publisher, with most of their hits actually being titles from other companies like Interplay or Free Fall Associates.

 

Greetings,

Manuel

[kevin242]

I just thought I would add my 2 cents. I have no nostalgia for the c64

since I was an 8bit atari user back in the day, but I recieved the c64dtv

as a gift for Christmas. It is really well done package and I've been

giving my 2600 a rest for a few days and feeding my retro addiction

with this.

 

My only complaint is the selection of games, I think they went a little

overboard on the Summer Winter World games thing. Also the game

with the frog is pretty bad too... I still give it a A- and I would buy a

another one if they released it with different games or did one for

another system (like atari 800 or Amiga).

[kevin242]

wow no delete... I actually left the same msg twice, well you can tell I

like it!

[Laner]

Hi there!

 

Unfortunately, with the C64, many of the best games are IPs of EA, and we all know how reasonable they are.

 

Can't agree with this. The current C64 DTV selection is composed out of Epyx and Hewson titles, both excellent companies which IHMO have a much better C64 back-catalogue than EA.

 

There's a lot of other companies on par with or better than EA, regarding their C64 output only: Palace, Thalamus, System 3, Cinemaware, Microprose, Rainbow Arts, Lucasarts, Firebird, Ocean.

 

Oh, I agree with what you're saying, but a lot of the games that the casual C64 fan remembers (especially in the states) were EA properties... MULE, Archon, Mail Order Monsters, Skate or Die, Seven Cities of Gold, etc. And they're not the only publisher that's still active and not about to let their properties go to some small-time hardware manufacturer... Lucasarts, Activision, etc. My point was, most of the classic games aren't going to show up on a C64DTV2 (or anything similar), unless they're done by the individual publishers. For this first one, they got lucky because Epyx (is Hewson still in existence) has been dead for years.

[Laner]

My only complaint is the selection of games, I think they went a little

overboard on the Summer Winter World games thing.

 

Most of the games on the C64DTV are by the (now-defunct) Epyx Software - and their biggest franchise was the Games series. So it only stands to reason that there would be lots of them on the stick I'm just curious as to why they didn't include World Games and California Games in their entirety.

[moycon]

By the game with a frog do you mean Tower Toppler??

I always kinda liked that game. Altho Im better at the 7800 version than I am at the C-64 version...Obviously, I couldnt get past the first tower when I played this past week-end on my new C-64 stick.

 

I will agree, the game selection could/should be much better than it is.

I know it'll never happen but my idea of the ideal C-64 30 in one stick is:

 

Archon

Archon 2

Summer Games

Winter Games

California Games

World Games

Beach-Head

Beach-Head 2

Raid Over Moscow

Frankie Goes To Hollywood

Rocky Horror Picture Show

Aliens

Impossible Mission

Impossible Mission 2

Pogo Joe

Test Drive

Way Of The Exploding Fist

Realm Of Impossibility

Jumpman

Jumpman Jr

Knight Games

Ghostbusters

Toy Bizzare

Lode Runner

Black Magic

Aardvark

Choplifter

Goonies

Blue Max

Boulder Dash

 

In a Wico Bat Joystick casing!!!

Man O Man I'd pay double for that stick!!

[MegaManFan]

It really isn't  doing any emulation, unless you consider a C128 or a SX64 or a C64GS to also be emulators.  Each one is mostly compatible with the other, but I could write a program for each one that would work on only one and crash (or behave differently, or whatever) on the others.  There has been variety in the exact make-up of each of these units throughout their production.  I think the C64DTV belongs in this same family of hardware.

 

There were two major versions of the SID during the 64's lifetime, the 6581 and the 8580 - both have distinct sounds and capabilities, though they may be subtle.  It's possible to make a program that makes a sound on one SID, and is pretty much silent on another.  Even within the two major models, there were numerous revisions, and even differences within different batches.  So again, I don't think having a different sounding SID automatically disqualifies the DTV.

 

Well if what you're saying is that between two Commodore computers themselves 100% compatibility is impossible, then I have EVEN LESS reason to not consider the C64-in-1 stick a fully functional Commdore 64 computer. If I wire in a disk drive and load up some software I typed in back in the day, some of it may work, some of it may not. Just like any other Commodore.