Stella List

[atari70s]

what is the website for that

[Thomas Jentzsch]

No I'm getting totally confused.

 

Wasn't that you, who subscribed under [email protected] to the Stella List some months ago?

[StanJr]

Yeah. I think it was. They booted him off the list rather rudely, however. I believe they used wording similar to "this type of person would not fit in on this list." Gee I hope he's not black, too! Didn't know there were criteria, I hope they don't find out that I drive a Hyundai, I'll be the next to go.

 

Just rubbed me the wrong way. Poor guy's just trying to get started. Now granted his spelling and grammar are rather rough at times, but to simply run him off like that is bad business in my mind. Why not help him, and educate him instead. Makes me wonder, "who are they?"

 

Sorry to rant.

 

Stan

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Ok, since I'm also a member of the Stella List, let me tell you a bit about the background of this story.

 

The problem with him is, that he seems not to understand how far away he is from programming for the 2600.

 

While he was on the list, he was asking simple (but hard to understand) questions about QBASIC(!), like how to add 15 to a variable.

 

We gave him some help and he was told, that he may be on the wrong list, but he didn't understand.

We asked him to change his font, because it was quite large (Copperplate Gothic Bold), and he didn't understand.

We tried to explain fonts, and he didn't understand. (:

Finally Glenn had to remove him from the list and everybody agreed (this was the first time ever).

 

And now he is asking for a link to Stella List. He still doesn't understand

[ubersaurus]

I figure I'll join that list after I finish studying up on assembly, to get an idea on what little I got to work with on the atari. Good ol programming masochism atari...

[Atari-Jess]

Well i know that I am somewhat far away from programming the 2600, but even i understand the basic ways of programming. I cant be too far off, Ive been reading alot about the ASM language and have learned quite a lot about just how the computer works (as it has been said it would) I know I am able to understand enough about what is going on while reading stella list posts and I am positive on how to add 15 to a variable. Anyways from reading what Thomas Jentzsch had to say, Maybe it was all for the better. But I am not one to judge who i dont know. (usually) And since im no, master ASM programmer ill leave it at that.

[StanJr]

To be fair, I only saw the post where he was booted off. I did not see the surrounding events. It was mostly the tone and wording of the post I read that sent me off. I apologize if I over-reacted without all the facts.

 

As a beginner programmer myself, I can understand things from his point of view. I've got some simple questions I need answered too (but now I'm anxious about asking them). I agree that if he expects to be taken seriously, he should clean up his dialogue for clarity's sake alone. I think he's just very enthusiastic.

 

Stan

[Atari-Jess]

and as a subnote, the 3 main reasons im on stella list are..

 

1. To know what the homebrewers are up to

2. To get some ASM tidbits that might be useful

3. It makes me feel a larger part of the Atari community.

[liquid_sky]

Im going to put it bluntly.. sorry if i offend anyone.

 

There are *******s no matter where you go. The ******* at the DMV that makes you get your picture taken while you have to stare at the sun setting facing an open window (stupid dmv.. that hurt). There is the ******* who honks at you in traffic, who thinks that because you are going 1 mile an hour slower than everyone else, that you are a menace to socity. There are the ******* cops who pull you over for stupid shit when you see people doing alot worse stuff (i mean.. i got a ticket for running a yield sign faster than 5 mph which is the law.. but i see red light runners in an elementry school zone get be free as can be). There are asses who try to push seniority around at work.. there are *******s who attack others with no reason, in fear of many many different things, that basially dont matter.

 

Basically 70s.. you gotta realize there are probally *******s on that list too.. but there are good people everywhere too.. but sometimes the *******s tend to outshadow them. I am NO expert on ASM or QBASIC.. I am just proud to be anti *******... and if I can help you inany way you know how to contact me.

 

(sorry if my use of ******* was too prolific.. i hope i dont crash the censorship board thingie)

[Scooterb23]

Just to clarify, was that *******, *******, or *******? And if it was indeed *******, shouldn't it be capitalized?? Just checking.

[StanJr]

I'm pretty sure it was *********, which may require a hyphen!!!

 

Stan (a four letter word)

[The Night Phantom]

quote:

---

Originally posted by liquid_sky:

sorry if my use of ******* was too prolific..

---

 

Man, do you have something up your asterisk!

[atari70s]

ok im here to state my peace. i try and try to adjust my emails the font and size. nowi had it down to a size 6 font. i think the lowest i can go is a 4. i started off at a 12font. Granted though life a******s will be everywhere its part of life. but its seems that people are how should i say not ********s but some seem to be ignorant of a beginner. they think hes a beginner hes not worthy . i think one of the comments are he s a CS major he wont be able to do it. well dang it i got a B+ avg. i can do something. also some people like Tempest i believe and Snyderman are apart of the group like a few others. i respect you all and you were the few who even if felt that same way didnt say anything baout it. if not for anything else just being civil and polite respectful of other peoples feelings. Now not to say yea i got issues to deal with in my everyday life but let me tell you all right now. ive over came alot in my life to get here . Hearing things like "he'll loose interest when he finds the first shinny thing he sees " as at least ignorant and cruel. Well i am very egear to learn and yes re read taht playfield program and came up with some good questions. yet some people helped a little i thank them for it. but its funny how when you get booted then all the talking and stuff comes about . You all thought that i was going to give up . Well i finished a Qbasic version and you wonder why i thought i can work from QBASIC back to 2600 and run it. well like Tempest talked about the 5200 system needs 6502 programming (somewhat) and it runs like the 8 bit so if i can work from 8 bit to 5200 and from 5200 to 2600 it shoudl be possible. i just need to go from qbasic to atari basic and from that to 5200. should be possible. jsut need to learn about 6502. there isnt a dummys guide to it so i got many *******s to deal with to get to the 5 or 10 on the board who are true programmers with the ability and willingness to teach a beginner. Hey i got a little bit of a problem grasping some concepts at times. just the way i am and sometimes you need to explain something to me 3 or 4 times before i get it. thats how i am made i cant do anythign about it.i can fix my typing skills when i need to but i find it dishearting you people gotta treat a beginner like me who is only goal is to learn atari 2600 programmign and add my 2 cents to the collecting world , followed by people saying i cant be bothered. You tell me who the heck am i to go to for help and advice when the concepts in the programs and manuals make no sense? i know im not a God made programmer who will be perfect over night. there is a good chance perhaps ill never get this but i want to believe i can and willing to try. maybe i need to get calmed down a little bit more. If i set it on Times Roman size 6 and you get your bold thing what am i to do . if you all want ill email each post to Glenn before i post to make sure the font is correct which is doable .

[Atari-Jess]

sounds fine to me.

[Ze_ro]

quote:

---

Originally posted by ubersaurus:

I figure I'll join that list after I finish studying up on assembly, to get an idea on what little I got to work with on the atari. Good ol programming masochism atari...

---

 

I've been on the list for a while now, but I've basically just been lurking. When I joined it, I was about to start work on a game, but I've since run out of time to do that sort of thing (I hope to start up again after exams, but we'll see).

 

I still read the list, though a lot of it is over my head, there's some pretty interesting stuff going on there.

 

--Zero

[Thomas Jentzsch]

quote:

---

Originally posted by liquid_sky:

Im going to put it bluntly.. sorry if i offend anyone.

---

 

Did you go through the Stella List archives? Did you follow the threads we are talking about and did you compare them with what is normally going on (including a lot of help to a lot of other beginners) on the list?

 

I doubt this!

 

Do so, and then you may call me whatever you like (even without ********). Then we can start a discussion about this, based on some informations.

 

Else, I don't care.

[Cybergoth]

Hi there!

 

Well, here's the message from the [stella] listkeeper about canceling the suscription of [email protected] :

 

Stella Message

 

I personally think it was the right thing to do. All of his postings were, at least totally off-topic, being about programming in QBasic and such. Besides, some of his postings didn't seem to make any sense at all. What should one make out of this for example:

 

Stella Message

 

99% of the people on the list are really, really helpful, even to beginners of assembly language. But [stella] can't teach someone with _no_ programming background at all how to programm the VCS.

 

Greetings,

Manuel

[King Asmo]

I think you'd be surprised to find how much more seriously people would take you if you typed in complete sentences using proper sentence structure. I can understand where the Stellalist people are coming from. To be honest, I don't usually read your posts because I have a really difficult time figuring out what you're talking about most of the time.

 

I imagine the Stella people saw your messages and said to themselves, "Why should I spent a half hour helping this guy, when he can't even spend an extra 30 seconds making his message readable"? It's something to think about.

 

[ 12-05-2001: Message edited by: King_Asmo ]

[Lemmi]

one word "Paragraphs"

 

I just find it easier on the eyes if there are breaks in the sentences, even if they are not in the right places just as long as there are breaks

 

And ive never read the stella page and i dont intend to as im not going to ever program anything, so i have no comment on what happened there, but Atari70s has always been a good guy here and i hope he continues to be apart of the atariage board

 

But since no one else has said it i will

 

"Can't we all just get along?"

[liquid_sky]

thomas.. i didnt call you an ******* i just SAID there are *******s everywhere

[Joel D. Park]

I'm a member of the list. I've had alot of luck getting help and I've been surprised by most of the help I've gotten.

 

But on the other hand, sometimes I'm a little afraid to post because most of these guys are so much more advanced than me, even the most advanced question from me seems to be silly compared to the other things they talk about.

 

As far as going from a Basic language to Assembler, I started out with no Assember what so ever. I'm a Visual Basic programmer by trade so it's been a big step for me. But I feel that I've learned alot just by reading pages and messing with samples. It can be done, it just takes a little longer to get started.

[Andrew Davie]

The [stella] mailing list is one of the most helpful, interesting, and intelligent group of people it has been my pleasure to work with. This group is full of people who give help when they can, and ask for help only when they need it.

 

If you wish to be welcomed with open arms, you must at least make an effort to learn. That means looking through the archives for an answer to your question, before you ask it. It means providing as much information as you possibly can when you have a problem you need solved. It means trying to answer other peoples' questions when you can. It means asking intelligent, well-thought-out questions.

 

If you expect somebody to hold your hand and tell you every little thing about programming the '2600 - forget it. Information that can readily be gained by simple web searches and by studying such source as "How to draw a Playfield" and 6502 programming books should be gained from those sources - NOT by asking the [stella] members.

 

It's not that the members of the list are elitist - far from it - it's just that the [stella] list is for a very targeted group of people - those who have a detailed technical interest in programming, and in the internals of, the Atari 2600. It is full of awesomly clever people, and absolutely fascinating ideas and technical data. I would highly recommend that anyone interested in programming this machine should at least browse the extensive archives of source code and technical discussions. In several cases you can see the full history of the development of a '2600 game (including binaries and source).

 

But please, if you do write to the list, respect the standards that have come to be expected and followed by the existing members. Email in text (not HTML) format. Don't include attachments, unless they are simple '2600 bin files or zipped source code. Be humble and polite. And remember, if you haven't made a real and sincere effort to learn and help yourself first, how can you reasonably expect anyone to treat you with respect.

 

The [stella] list is about learning about a very intersting and challenging machine. That's all people there really care about. If you come aboard and haven't paid attention to some of the "I'm here to learn" guidelines followed above, then you're just going to look clueless.

 

So my advice: grab how to draw a playfield, and the stella manual. Peruse the archives, and start to learn how to actually program the thing. If you don't understand assembler, you're going to have to learn that. It is NOT like QBASIC, and what's worse, the Atari 2600 severely restricts your programming style even further. It takes a special breed of coder to be able to cope with the limitations that the '2600 places upon you. The [stella] list is the way to become one, but the bottom line is, you have to learn for yourself, others won't do that for you.

 

I guess I just wasted 2c, but what the heck.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

quote:

---

Originally posted by liquid_sky:

thomas.. i didnt call you an ******* i just SAID there are *******s everywhere

---

 

Ok, got it.

 

And I'm glad, that I can say, there aren't any ********s on the Stella List

 

I hope nobody is afraid to ask questions, just be fair and try to find the answer yourself first.

[ubersaurus]

I would like to retract my statement on the Atari and it's programming being masochism. Thats the Channel F, the system for which everything is tough love.

[atari70s]

i got alot of web info on 6502 yet i havent been able to comprehend. its gonna take a long long time. some things i get like color and to some extent the screen size (top to bottom LDY but i wonder to adjust the screen from left to right if LDX would work. now from the program playfield i see them doing STA PF0 [0]+3=3<23 then later on i see <29 and <49 and such. also i see they are adding 3 and 4 which makes me ask why? does it have something to do with the line

 

X= ( (Y-PlayfieldY) /4 )mod 7 well off to find some books