r_type2600 Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 My vote would go for the original, realistic artstyle - The icon-style graphics are highly attractive (as expected from salstadt), but they would distract from the amazing job done so far in faithfully recreating PoP on the 2600, IMHO. That said, a second PoP-style game with icon-style graphics and different setting/plot and levels would of course be most welcome Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haydn Jones Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 if this were a democratic vote, i'd go for thr roto.... but it is realy up to the artist. a duel cart would be very cool tho. (or 4 on 1 cart if you like us in the pal regions, would either of you programers consider PAL?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~llama Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 i cast my vote for the rotoscoped styles too, very similar to the original game and I think that's one of the things that makes people think of PoP (the realistic movement, that is) so... it's up to the coders and artists but i like the rotoscope as well. Just my $0.02... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 (or 4 on 1 cart if you like us in the pal regions, would either of you programers consider PAL?) I suppose a special PAL cart shouldn't be a big problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haydn Jones Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Thomas Jentzsch wrote: I suppose a special PAL cart shouldn't be a big problem. That would be fantastic, thanks Haydn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legeek Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 I vote for closer to the original rotoscoping... This is really exciting to watch progress! Cheers, Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kisrael Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Heheh...wouldn't it be funny/annoying to do the rotoscoped jumping, but the Pitfall! jumping sound effect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Heheh...wouldn't it be funny/annoying to do the rotoscoped jumping, but the Pitfall! jumping sound effect? Yes, the sound wouldn't fit then. But I am sure we have enough talented sound programmers around who can help avoiding that problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kisrael Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Well, it would still be a cool easter egg to have goofy atari classic sound effects as well as some more appropriate and polished ones.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nathan Strum Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Well, it would still be a cool easter egg to have goofy atari classic sound effects And maybe some classic 2600 sprites to match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haydn Jones Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Results so far Iconic salstadt - Artist vdub_bobby - Programmer Dones Nathan Strum (classic 2600 sprites) StanJr (half way more iconic tho) 5 Rotoscoping Thomas Jentzsch - Programmer MikeMika kisrael r_type2600 Haydn Jones ~llama legeek 7 but tom is doing a lot of resurch and hasent voted. Adam, do you have enough time to do both or will you concentrate on one? Haydn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nathan Strum Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Actually, I only think the classic sprites should be part of the Easter Egg (ie. characters from classic games). For the "real" game characters, I think the animation should match the feel of the original as much as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbird Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 I say that if you have the capablility to make a good looking port, then it's be great if you took advantage of it. I vote for the realistic art style, though having both would be even better, if you can manage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdub_bobby Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 I think I have a new 2LK kernel figured out that will display both players, using the ball (flickering) for the sword or any other object, allow repositioning of player 0, allow the use of each missile for an extra pixel for its player. Plus with 4 free cycles It's only on paper right now, but it should work. I think. I was just excited to figure this out so I thought I'd post 72 cycles for PF + PF color 21 cycles for P0 21 cycles for P1 5 cycles for M1 7 cycles for M0 14 cycles for the ball 3 cycles for HMOVE 5 cycles for loop maintenance (dey bne) adds up to 148, of 152 cycles in two scanlines. Am I forgetting something? Only problem is P1 color is written at cycle 69; 5 pixels early. Thomas, SwitchDraw is really a fantastic, fantastic little routine. Not only does it take a constant number of cycles, and not only is it faster than SkipDraw, but it also gives you free cycles when it isn't drawing! Fun stuff... Only thing to do now is tighten up reposition routine so it doesn't take so many lines to reset all the variables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kisrael Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 In my experience, 2600 codin' aint a democracy :-) If you do the work, you get to make the decisions...obviously collaborations are a little more complex. That said...it sounds like some people are looking at the old PoP PC binary...is there any chance of sampling the actual animation? In my experience, animations can survive brutal pixelizations and still look ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 Using PR (I posted a link somewhere in this thread), it's possible to unpack all data files, so one can easily get the prince/enemy animations. No idea how useful they are to base artwork on, though. I find it funny how people are already thinking about easter eggs, when all there is for now are two kernel protos, prince graphics and a bunch of lousy coded Ruby scripts to read PoP 1.0 level resources Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 Only problem is P1 color is written at cycle 69; 5 pixels early. Actually that's only 1 pixel early, since we don't use the full screen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salstadt Posted March 10, 2005 Author Share Posted March 10, 2005 Adam, do you have enough time to do both or will you concentrate on one? Not really. Not now anyway. I'm doing GBA work right now for a living and the deadlines are killin' me. Plus I think two sets of the same anims would be a little redundant. I have no problem going going totally faithful and doing rotoscoped-style anims, though, which is what I'll probably do based on the consensus here. What might be nice is to do a very faithful, accurate PoP game in that style, then maybe later on we could do another game with smaller sprites, more playfield (like in some of vdub's screens), all new levels, etc. Sort of a PoP game optimized for the system, rather than attempting to port an existing design. I'd definitely be up for additional work if that sounds interesting to you guys, especially if we could incorporate some PoP: Sands of Time gameplay, create all new puzzles, etc. I'm swamped til Friday, but I should be able to do a few animations over the weekend. - Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 Not really. Not now anyway. I'm doing GBA work right now for a living and the deadlines are killin' me. Plus I think two sets of the same anims would be a little redundant. Do you know any free tools which could convert the original animations at least semi-automatically? I have been playing with Paint Shop Pro and it takes quite some time and manual adjustments until you get a satisfying result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 BTW: When using two players (8 pixel) and two missiles (1 pixel), we can do some tricks with the coloring. E.g. 000000001011111111, 100000000111111110, 010000000011111111, 111111110000000001 etc. (0=color0, 1= color1) And since most sprites don't require the full width, this should help keeping the colors intact for quite a lot of animations. E.g. something like 111110001 or even 111011100 (with missile 0 overlapping sprite 1) is possible too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kisrael Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 I find it funny how people are already thinking about easter eggs, when all there is for now are two kernel protos, prince graphics and a bunch of lousy coded Ruby scripts to read PoP 1.0 level resources Yeah, I was thinking about that...really it's just people trying to think of a way to have their cake and eat it to viz a viz rotoscoped vs. more-classically-Atarian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdub_bobby Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 Only problem is P1 color is written at cycle 69; 5 pixels early. Actually that's only 1 pixel early, since we don't use the full screen. It's one cycle early, but 1 cycle = 3 pixels. PF1 ends at pixel 144; cycle 70.667 - so cycle 69 is 1.667 cycles before the edge of our playing area; 1.667 cycles = 5 pixels. Assuming that writes to COLUP1 take place immediately, which I think they do; though I can't remember. BTW: When using two players (8 pixel) and two missiles (1 pixel), we can do some tricks with the coloring. E.g. 000000001011111111, 100000000111111110, 010000000011111111, 111111110000000001 etc. (0=color0, 1= color1) And since most sprites don't require the full width, this should help keeping the colors intact for quite a lot of animations. E.g. something like 111110001 or even 111011100 (with missile 0 overlapping sprite 1) is possible too. Erm, I think I'm slow this morning - can you run that by me again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdub_bobby Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 I find it funny how people are already thinking about easter eggs, when all there is for now are two kernel protos, prince graphics and a bunch of lousy coded Ruby scripts to read PoP 1.0 level resources I second that, especially since neither of the two coders, as far as I know, have agreed to work on this to completion. Also, an actual PoP2600 will require a lot of ROM for image/PF data. Will there be room for easter eggs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanJr Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 easter eggs? Oy. Cart--Horse. I just want a really cool game. And I was basing my preference on what looked good from what I had seen, as I have NO knowledge of the original game graphics. I DO think the closer the port is the better it will be. I really hope all of these developers see the amount of interest there is in this and appreciate how excited we all are about the prospect of this becoming a real game, and will commit to the project (as much as they can) to see it come to fruition. These guys have SO much talent and work at such a high level, I have no doubt that they can come together to turn out an amazing game. I'm personally honored just to able to watch it all happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nathan Strum Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 I find it funny how people are already thinking about easter eggs, when all there is for now are two kernel protos, prince graphics and a bunch of lousy coded Ruby scripts to read PoP 1.0 level resources I guess I need to put more winky's in my posts. Of course I know it's silly to discuss Easter Eggs for this. (I would, however, like to point out that a programmer brought up the idea.) Do you know any free tools which could convert the original animations at least semi-automatically? I have been playing with Paint Shop Pro and it takes quite some time and manual adjustments until you get a satisfying result. Free? No. But I own DeBabelizer which can handle that kind of stuff via scripting. As with any image downsampling, it would still require considerable tweaking to work. I'd be willing to try and help out, except for one thing, I don't have any sprite images from the game, and for another... Hellooooo, resident Atari homebrew artist here! Unless our coders are opposed to it, I'd really like to do all art myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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