Hi everybody

[dinosaur]

Russ,from an OLD Atarian,I think that HomePac was your most significant

contribution to the Atari community,at that time..

 

A completely user-friendly,integrated suite of programs,that even novice

(read yours truly!) could use with confidence!

 

If you could find the time to post,I would *LOVE* to hear about your

experiences, programming for the ST.

 

IMHO,the ST divided the Atari community,at a time when unity was

paramount.

 

Everyone jumped unto the 16 bit bandwagon,and we 8bitters felt

abandoned..

 

The ST was a *Helll* of a machine for it's day ( I have four of them!)

but ,we Atari pioneers felt like we were cast aside,in favor of the ST.

 

Hey,..Jets rule the skies.... but! there are still a lot of prop planes

out there.

 

As a VietNam vet,I can tell you how we went *WILD* when an A1D

(SPAD) shot down a MIG-17!

 

The triumph of ability over technology!

 

Ten thousand welcomes to our little group,and may you shed the light of your experience on us!

[Wadsworth Overcash]

If you could find the time to post, I would *LOVE* to hear about your experiences programming for the ST.

 

IMHO, the ST divided the Atari community, at a time when unity was paramount.

 

Everyone jumped unto the 16 bit bandwagon, and we 8bitters felt abandoned.

 

The ST was a *Hell* of a machine for it's day ( I have four of them!) but we Atari pioneers felt like we were cast aside,in favor of the ST.

 

I only worked on the ST for about a year from the time the first prototypes were available until I gave up on it. My problem with the ST had to do mainly with the Tramiels. The OS was a mess (it was bought/lifted/licensed from several sources and not integrated well) and there were very few tools at the beginning. And don't get me started on GEM. I know some of the original architects at Digital Research, and they did a great job with what they had to work with, but it was a bear to program for. The variable pixel geometry drove me nuts.

 

I spent most of that year writing utilities and test apps and nothing was coming of it. The hardware was constantly breaking down. I was one of the (very lucky) first guys to get a hard disk, and although you'd think it would make things easier all it did was complicate things. I eventually packed it all in for a job at Apple, where I ended up working for 7 years.

 

IMO, for its day the ST was an interesting, but not great, machine. The folks who wrote the 8-bit OS, though, had a much more professional and polished product on their hands. It's just a shame that they sat on their laurels as long as they did and didn't come up with anything new, instead continuing to foist the 8-bit OS back onto the market in different flavored computers and "game machines" but it was all just the original 800 in sheep's clothing. By the time the market collapsed and the Tramiels came bargain-hunting, their fate was sealed.

 

--r

[doctorclu]

Russ, it is great to have you here.

 

You know I really never got into the gameplay of Preppie II, but I would sit and listen to the intro music for hours.

 

Here in Dallas we have a station, 770 am, where they play the hits from the 30's to the 70's where I finally heard at least three renditions of that song. Still load that game up about once a year to hear the theme music. And now you can hear that and other Atari tunes on the ASMA player on your PC. But I like to keep an Atari 800 going.

 

And I still use HomePac. Took a little bit to get it to work on my Atari 800's hard drive system, but works. I use the text editor portion of it. Term program I think taps out at 1200 or 2400 buad, but is elegant like the whole package. And the third part was a spread sheet, or data base? Anyway, love the test editor.

 

As for the talk on the Atari ST, I concur. The ST was a interesting mesh, and I love how the operating system is built in. I think what would be interesting is to rework the OS so that it comes with a built in term program. Then that would be a machine worth talking about in BBS'ing terms.

Played with the ST line from a 520 ST till the Atari TT 030. Certainly had a lot of fun with it. As a 8-bit user who couldn't afford to move up to the ST when the rest did, my perspective was interesting. There were people who took on this attitude that they could continue to upgrade their 8-bit, and build it up to 512K, add 16 bit chips and better graphics... or get everything in one ST package. I remember many 8-bit users approached the ST as a mega XE or something. It was quite funny.

I even remember a lot of users laughing at the 8-bit users that were "left behind" as they bought their ST. And they bragged about their new ST's, and then within a year, nothing.

 

I really thought Atari died by 1989, that was how bad it was.

 

But it was funny how for that first year Atari developers tried bringing over a lot of the applications that were big sellers in the 8-bit world. It was like a changing of the guard, an integration into the ST world. I remember PaperClip, and a few others would transfer over. Some 8-bit games would port over. I think many at first really thought they were getting a souped up 8-bit Atari computer when what they were getting was a underpowered 16 bit computer.

[Wadsworth Overcash]

You know I really never got into the gameplay of Preppie II, but I would sit and listen to the intro music for hours.  

 

Then you'll probably get a kick out of the attached file...

 

And the third part was a spread sheet, or data base?

 

Well, "database" would be stretching it. The format of the data was emulated from a program written for the North Star computer (remember them?) called "Whatsit?". As I remember, at one point for research purposes I was running Whatsit? on a North Star emulator inside a CP/M emulator running on a TRS-80, so I could see how the program ran. The lengths I went to for my craft...

 

But it was funny how for that first year Atari developers tried bringing over a lot of the applications that were big sellers in the 8-bit world.

 

Well, I was supposed to deliver Homepak for the ST, but my relationship with Batteries Included ended (poorly) before I ever really got going on it. My problem was that Homepak was written in Action! and there wasn't a version of it running on the ST. And I, um, took "advantage" of Action!'s capabilities to the extent that a straight port to C or assembler was pretty much impossible. I even wrote a 6502 emulator to see if I could get away with that, but stuff ran slow as molasses.

 

Thanks for the kind words. It's kinda fun reliving some of these old memories.

p2.zip

[Wadsworth Overcash]

_________________

(Doctor Clu) @}><-->--------------------

Bubsy Fan clubs...

 

Oh, and in the "It's A Small World" category: After I left Apple in '93, I was partners with Bubsy's creator (Mike Berlyn) and Marc Blank of Infocom fame in a little endeavor called "Eidetic, Inc." We wrote Apple Newton and video game software up in Bend, Oregon. Still one of my favorite places. I believe Mike and Marc still live in the area.

 

--r

[doctorclu]

"Well, "database" would be stretching it. The format of the data was emulated from a program written for the North Star computer (remember them?) called "Whatsit?". As I remember, at one point for research purposes I was running Whatsit? on a North Star emulator inside a CP/M emulator running on a TRS-80, so I could see how the program ran. The lengths I went to for my craft... "

 

North Star? I remember North Star Dos, that was really popular on most C/PM s-100 computers around 1976-1978 or so. The one I saw it on was a Sol Terminal 20. That is my dad's "vintage" computer much like the Atari 800 is mine.

I have let my sisters know that if and when our dad passes on, I could care less about the house, land, money, tools, jewels... but get between me and the Sol and there will be hell to pay.

 

 

I have fun telling my dad I want his "Sol". >

 

Neat computer really. I love how the lights dim slightly as we power it up and the fan sucks the heat from the keyboard as it spins.

 

"Oh, and in the "It's A Small World" category: After I left Apple in '93, I was partners with Bubsy's creator (Mike Berlyn) and Marc Blank of Infocom fame in a little endeavor called "Eidetic, Inc." We wrote Apple Newton and video game software up in Bend, Oregon. Still one of my favorite places. I believe Mike and Marc still live in the area. "

 

Wow.. where to start on that one? The Bubsy mention or the Newton?

 

Bubsy, I would love to learn where Bubsy was inspired from. I have heard of conversations with him, but would love to know the guts of where this character came from. Bubsy is definately unique. And it seems you either love him or hate him, which makes for a distinct personality right there.

 

The Newton... I see that company did "Notion" which was huge in the early Newton days. There has been a lot of development on the Newton over the years. I have everything from the Newton 110 to the Newton 2000. And the Newton 2000 has had some great development for it lately with MP3 players, wifi and 802.11 support, ATA cards, a Nintendo emulator, and a few other things. But yeh still use one of those believe it or not. Cool enough. It was announced on the list that today was the seventh anniversary of the discontinuation of the Newton... and yet we are still plugging away. Much like Atari users.

[Wadsworth Overcash]

Bubsy, I would love to learn where Bubsy was inspired from.  I have heard of conversations with him, but would love to know the guts of where this character came from.  Bubsy is definately unique.  And it seems you either love him or hate him, which makes for a distinct personality right there.

 

Mike created Bubsy while he was working for Accolade (which was before we hooked up at Eidetic.) Mike is a pretty "distinct personality" in his own right. Bubsy was an attempt to build a franchise ala Sonic. After I left Eidetic, they produced the Syphon Filter series, a decent franchise in its own right. Great bunch of guys.

 

I see that company did "Notion" which was huge in the early Newton days.

 

Couldn't ask for a better straight man. I wrote Notion. I bought one of the first MessagePads and had been using it for awhile but something was missing and I couldn't put my finger on it. I had to justify carrying such a large brick around. I finally figured out that if I was going to carry the thing around, I needed it to make and carry lists.

 

As early developers, we had Nubus cards that plugged into our Macs that gave us on-board development capability. Code, compile and run in an emulator window--sure beat the hell out of serial transfer cables.

 

I have a prototype 110 that several people have offered me big bucks for. Apple used to make their protos using clear plastic to discourage employees from sneaking them out the building. My 110 is made with a smoky clear plastic--pretty cool.

 

--r

[doctorclu]

"Mike created Bubsy while he was working for Accolade (which was before we hooked up at Eidetic.) Mike is a pretty "distinct personality" in his own right. Bubsy was an attempt to build a franchise ala Sonic. After I left Eidetic, they produced the Syphon Filter series, a decent franchise in its own right. Great bunch of guys. "

 

Aha, so Mike created Bubsy it sounds like as a mirror of himself. Was he one to dish out horrible puns like Bubsy tends to?

 

"Quote:

I see that company did "Notion" which was huge in the early Newton days.

 

Couldn't ask for a better straight man."

 

Thank you!

 

"I wrote Notion. I bought one of the first MessagePads and had been using it for awhile but something was missing and I couldn't put my finger on it. I had to justify carrying such a large brick around. I finally figured out that if I was going to carry the thing around, I needed it to make and carry lists."

 

I think Notion was one of the first programs that came with my Newton 110. Never got around to using it much. Kinda like the lister on HomePac... making lists is a big thing for you isn't it?

 

"As early developers, we had Nubus cards that plugged into our Macs that gave us on-board development capability. Code, compile and run in an emulator window--sure beat the hell out of serial transfer cables. "

 

They had some kind of Newton emulator? Am I reading this right?

 

"I have a prototype 110 that several people have offered me big bucks for. Apple used to make their protos using clear plastic to discourage employees from sneaking them out the building. My 110 is made with a smoky clear plastic--pretty cool."

 

Nice! I have seen the clear Newton 110's and I always thought it would be cool to take the clear shell of a Newton 110 and put the guts of a 130 with the better OS and backlight and everything. My wife wanted one of those. All I can say is, hang on to that, you have a fun conversation piece.

So what it given to you, or did you sneak it out of the building? Not to worry, there were a lot of things that Newton engineers snuck out of the building, like the text to speech engine thankfully!

[Jeff Lodoen]

I was looking through my files, and found a neat item. Its a transcript of an online conference on CompuServe dated August 4 1983... Featuring Russ Wetmore.

 

What were the rates back then $12.50/hour?

 

Discussion topics included: recommend references and tools, piracy, Atari's future, and games Russ likes.

 

Of particular interest Russ tells how to access cheats in his classics...

 

 

(SYSOP*Ron) Russ< a few programmers include a 'hidden' trick like holding ctrl-shift-tab to jump to the higher levels of play in CAVERNS OF MARS features. Do you (did you) ever use such a feature,or would you consider it for a future game?

(Russ W.) Yes. Sometimes its for testing and left in, other times its deliberate, hoping someone will find it and talk it up. Makes for keeping interest up at users groups etc. PREPPIE! and P! II both use the following tricks: (get your pencils) Shift-Cntl-Insert gives you highest number of men; Shift-Cntl-Atari gives you level 10 on P!, level 5 on P! II; In Sea Dragon, put the joystick in ports 3 and 4 and play with the stick button.

 

 

Also.......

 

(SYSOP*Greg) Hi Russ -- without giving away anything, what products will we be seeing your name on in the coming months?

(Russ W.) Because I'm currently in negotiations for current project, I can't say anything about my current program except its name: "LULU": an arcade game with a jungle motif, featuring LULU the elephant and a host of jungle characters - I think it's my best work to date. And of course, the final chapter in the PREPPIE! saga will be given to A.I. for release next summer.

wetmore_conference.zip

[Wadsworth Overcash]

Was he one to dish out horrible puns like Bubsy tends to?

 

Oh yes. His wife (Muffy) was a card too--it wouldn't suprize me if they had come up with the puns and gameplay together.

 

They had some kind of Newton emulator?  Am I reading this right?

 

It was actually a whole MP ROM on a NuBus card with a bunch of fast RAM. You could compile your Newtonscript and transfer it to the card in a couple of seconds. Sweet.

 

So what it given to you, or did you sneak it out of the building?

 

Given to me. Eidetic (Blank, Berlyn & Co. back then) was an early adopter and we regularly got prototypes of future models for compatibility testing. Sometimes they were hardwired into an old case, and sometimes we got pre-production test units, like my 110.

 

--r

[Wadsworth Overcash]

I was looking through my files, and found a neat item. Its a transcript of an online conference on CompuServe dated August  4 1983... Featuring Russ Wetmore.

 

Wow, where did you find that gem? You must be the ultimate packrat, to have saved a text file 20 years ago and kept it.

 

What were the rates back then $12.50/hour?

 

Gosh, I couldn't tell you. I was a sysop for first the Atari forum, and then the Macintosh forum, about 8 or 9 years total. I don't think I paid for more than a couple of months before I was given sysop status, and then I had unlimited reign. I still had to pay Telenet surcharges for awhile, but then we got a local dedicated node (in Orlando, FL).

 

Thanks for this. I'll file it away with the rest of my memorabilia.

 

--r

[Jeff Lodoen]

Wow, where did you find that gem? You must be the ultimate packrat, to have saved a text file 20 years ago and kept it.

 

Not quite, these files were dated 1995 on my system. I was on CIS and GEnie and at one point, couldn't keep both. So I scoured the DLs before I canceled CompuServe. (still know my first login circa '85: 76515,1325)

 

I shoulda got more. Wonder is anyone thought to archive that stuff?

[+Allan]

Wow, where did you find that gem? You must be the ultimate packrat, to have saved a text file 20 years ago and kept it.

 

Not quite, these files were dated 1995 on my system. I was on CIS and GEnie and at one point, couldn't keep both. So I scoured the DLs before I canceled CompuServe. (still know my first login circa '85: 76515,1325)

 

I shoulda got more. Wonder is anyone thought to archive that stuff?

 

Actually, from what I understand, all the Atari stuff on Compuserve was trashed a few years ago.

 

Allan

[Jeff Lodoen]

Actually, from what I understand, all the Atari stuff on Compuserve was trashed a few years ago.

 

No doubt about that. I was thinking of an unofficial archive. No one ever plans for nostalgia!

 

Anyway, I found that I have a list of all DLs from SIG*ATARI... 1882 files from 1982-1992. Its a start.

[+Allan]

Actually, from what I understand, all the Atari stuff on Compuserve was trashed a few years ago.

 

No doubt about that. I was thinking of an unofficial archive. No one ever plans for nostalgia!

 

Anyway, I found that I have a list of all DLs from SIG*ATARI... 1882 files from 1982-1992. Its a start.

 

If you send them to Kevin Savetz over at www.atariarchives.org maybe he could add them to the other Atari SIG's he has online.

 

Allan

[Shannon]

Cool... nice to see an original atari 8-bit programmer on here.

 

Yes we do still play your stuff.

 

I was a much bigger sea dragon fan than preppie. Although preppie was kinda cool. Sea Dragon is one of the few games I actually finished.

[Goochman]

We are playing Preppie II in this weeks HSC

[Wadsworth Overcash]

I was a much bigger sea dragon fan than preppie.  Although preppie was kinda cool.  Sea Dragon is one of the few games I actually finished.

 

Thanks for the kind words. Sea Dragon was actually designed to be "finishable" after a lot of feedback from customers. Most people have told me that after time they could manage to get to the end, but not finish the level. You had to get into the final chamber with enough air to spare, which was the hard part.

 

--r

[Shannon]

I was a much bigger sea dragon fan than preppie.  Although preppie was kinda cool.  Sea Dragon is one of the few games I actually finished.

 

Thanks for the kind words. Sea Dragon was actually designed to be "finishable" after a lot of feedback from customers. Most people have told me that after time they could manage to get to the end, but not finish the level. You had to get into the final chamber with enough air to spare, which was the hard part.

 

--r

 

Now that you mention it I remember the part about barely having enough air. It's been like years! It was played in the HSC last year but I missed that week.

[RJ]

Russ, I don't s'pose you could drop a hint as to the "surprise obstacle" on Level 10 of Preppie! as stated in the manual? Is it the Greenskeeper himself?

 

I could only always get to Level 9.

 

Oh, & I used HomePak for ALL my paper correspondence as long as I owned it.

[doctorclu]

Then you'll probably get a kick out of the attached file...

zz

 

Wow, sorry to resurrect this thread from the archives, I was looking for Mike Berlyn news since I heard he had cancer.

 

Russ Wetmore, if you are still out there, thanks for the midi files of the Preppie 2 music. Did not notice that ten years ago.

[Mclaneinc]

Never seen this thread before, wonderful to have had Russ on here, his games got serious play time with me and I loved the font, used it in every little thing I wrote or used, Omnimon with preppie font was brilliant..

 

Thanks for digging up the thread Dr...

[Albert]

Wow, sorry to resurrect this thread from the archives, I was looking for Mike Berlyn news since I heard he had cancer.

I received a note from Mike today,

 

"As of 9/11/2015, I am cancer free after 7 months of chemo and radiation therapy. Please post this information, and thank you for your kind words and well wishes.

 

Best,

Mike Berlyn"

[+Stephen]

I received a note from Mike today,

 

"As of 9/11/2015, I am cancer free after 7 months of chemo and radiation therapy. Please post this information, and thank you for your kind words and well wishes.

 

Best,

Mike Berlyn"

That's great news. My dad is cancer free since February of 2015. He was diagnosed with Stage 4 in his neck & face, but somehow got over it. One day before he was diagnosed with the cancer, he was told he has several major strokes which made him unable to walk. Getting old sucks (but he's only 63).

[fujidude]

Not usually easy to beat stage 4 of any kind of cancer. That's good news.