Marius Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 (edited) The first version of the tool (deleted already) had a little bug in it. The newer version (below somewhere in this thread) does the test right... Marius Edited September 7, 2007 by Marius1976 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allas Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Well I have some tests: SIO2SD works exactly as you describe, is more slow at high sectors. MyIDE+Flash Cart works very fast. In 3 seconds completes the 0000 - $00ff test zone. But, at C000 - $c0ff takes 11 seconds. Every following segment takes more seconds. However it's not noticeable due the high speed transfer. SIO2PC works fine with all segments at the same speed. No visible difference. Maybe, someone could explain something about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Well I have some tests: SIO2SD works exactly as you describe, is more slow at high sectors. MyIDE+Flash Cart works very fast. In 3 seconds completes the 0000 - $00ff test zone. But, at C000 - $c0ff takes 11 seconds. Every following segment takes more seconds. However it's not noticeable due the high speed transfer. SIO2PC works fine with all segments at the same speed. No visible difference. Maybe, someone could explain something about. Yeah. A little slower is no problem, but the slowness I have with sio2SD is terrible. Btw. my tool does something wrong, it only reads half the sector. (doesn't matter for the test). And... I stored my source on ramdisk... and switched off the Atari ... sigh. I'll write it again. And now better. Stupid me. I guess that half sector read is the problem on default OS. I'll write it again, but I guess that will be finished tomorrow. It is time to go to bed soon. Marius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Ok people... The first version was a bad program. I really was not clear in mind when I wrote it. This program is right. It loads 256 bytes a sector, and it uses right SIOV. (So now it works on default XL OS) But the real problem (very slow Sio2SD on high sectors) is still there. So please give this new one a try. Thanks Marius p.s. I really HAD to write it over ... before I went to bed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allas Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 The same thing happens with the tests: SIO2SD : every segment upper is more slow SIO2PC : the same time for all segments MyIDE+Flashcart : every segment is more slow. But, it's faster! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigula Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 The same thing happens with the tests: SIO2SD : every segment upper is more slow SIO2PC : the same time for all segments MyIDE+Flashcart : every segment is more slow. But, it's faster! change hsindex as 10 (hex) and try again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigula Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 (edited) Ok ... I wrote a little test tool, and saved it on a 16MB MyDOS partition. Please download the ZIP file and unzip (16MB!) and put it on D1: of your Sio2SD Boot the ATARI (no basic) Choose on the MyDOS menu L and type D1:READTEST.COM Now the tool starts. It only READS so don't worry. It reads on a few locations on the 16MB partition 256 sectors in a row. 0000 - $00ff = fast 1000 - $10ff = a little slower 2000 - $20ff = pretty slower 8000 - $80ff = almost unusable slow C000 - $c0ff = pffff.... If you test this on Sio2IDE (only tested on 3.3a) or APE you will hear no difference in these area'. Hope someone knows a solution. Marius OK I send all information about problem to designer sio2sd, maybe new firmware solve a problem Edited September 7, 2007 by Pigula Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allas Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 The same thing happens with the tests: SIO2SD : every segment upper is more slow SIO2PC : the same time for all segments MyIDE+Flashcart : every segment is more slow. But, it's faster! change hsindex as 10 (hex) and try again! Yeah, it should work faster. But Marius need a test with default speed. The point is only SIO2PC works stable with all sectors. MyIDE+Flashcart and SIO2SD have delays with last sectors, is interesting to know what is the main cause of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 (edited) Yeah, it should work faster. But Marius need a test with default speed.The point is only SIO2PC works stable with all sectors. MyIDE+Flashcart and SIO2SD have delays with last sectors, is interesting to know what is the main cause of this. @pigula: I tested this on every SpeedIndex. It has nothing to do (I guess) with highspeed Sio or not. It is not the connection between the atari and the interface, it is the speed the firmware reads the data from SD card on higher sectors. Even when highspeed = off te problem still exists. I did mail the designer of Sio2SD, I hope he can fix this, and I hope he will reply! Do you know if he reads this forum? @Allas: I know it is also slower on MyIDE, but as far I can see this is another slowness: with sio2sd it is not the datatransfer rate the problem, but the speed it finds the sector. MyIDE has faster datatransfer, but since that difference is not the problem, I guess it is something else. Besides that with sio2SD every new partition starts at max. speed, with myIDE i have the feeling partition #3 is already slower than partition #1, but I'm not sure about that. Resume: It is not (as said to pigula) the data speed, but the speed the interface FINDS the right sector. And my tool is a simple test-problem-only-tool. When you use a very well filled 16MB partition, this problem is even bigger, files are coming in really slow, and the DOS switches from VTOC and file. This makes it even slower. If this problem can't be fixed the best solution will be using max. 1MB partitions ($0FFF x 256 bytes sectors (4095 sectors x double density) When you start from scratch: 1MB partitions are cool enough. But I use my 16MB partitions already a long time, and I'm very used to all the files on that partition. Marius p.s. and I know: SIO2IDE is another thing as SIO2SD... and the difference is also that this "slow"--problem is not on Sio2IDE ... That is very fast on all sectors. Edited September 8, 2007 by Marius1976 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigula Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 OK all information I send to Jakub - He need little time for testing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 To use less words: On each new 1MB border the speed slows down again. This 1MB border is absolute: On single density the first slowness starts on sector $2000, the next on $4000... On double density the first slowness starts on sector $1000, the next on $2000.... I heard from Beetle this is a FAT-related issue. I'll wait for reaction of the designer Marius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 WOOOOHOOOO It seems I found myself a solution! When you increase clustersize on the format of your disk, it fix the problem. Beware: You need a 64KB/Cluster to have full speed on 16MB ATR partition. If your card does not support that size try 32KB (8MB atr on full speed) or 16KB (4MB atr on full speed). 8 KB/cluster results in a 2MB ATR on full speed etc. I have now a 1GB SD card with a 64KB/Cluster format, and that works great. Unfortunately smaller cards do not accept 64KB/Cluster format but try to get as high as possible. You can change this in windows, but I don't have English version of Windows, so I can not describe. In dutch (free translated to english) it is in (windows 2000) Configuration Screen System management Computer management and then drive options. It absolutely not needed to go above 64KB/Cluster. Good luck! Marius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allas Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 good discover! It's nice you can found finally what happen with this "error". I managed a 512Kb card so I see how much it can be formatted. Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Jefferson Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 The increased time for MyIDE is probably due to the conversion between the Atari's sector format and the cylinder/head/sector format of the drive itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigula Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 The increased time for MyIDE is probably due to the conversion between the Atari's sector format and the cylinder/head/sector format of the drive itself. I have 512MB SD Card Kingston and speed all sector 16MB ATR is the some. My Hardware (1MB Ram, Stereo, Qmeg 4.04). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Jefferson Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 (edited) That's good to hear. I haven't tested my own yet, just commenting on what might account for the slowdown that Allas and Marius saw. It also might be something in Marius' code or particular setup. I should test my setup and see what sort of numbers I see. Edited September 9, 2007 by Shawn Jefferson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 That's good to hear. I haven't tested my own yet, just commenting on what might account for the slowdown that Allas and Marius saw. It also might be something in Marius' code or particular setup. I should test my setup and see what sort of numbers I see. It is not something in my code. I first saw the problem on severval 16 MB partitions, and then tried to isolate the problem in a tool. My read tool simply accesses sectors, that is all. Just the way all dosses do it. As told before: it has something to do with the FAT and the size of the clusters. I mailed with the designer of Sio2SD and he explains this problem. Jacub wrote in a mail to me: Yes. It's obvious. Searching FAT causes this problem. In FAT32 standard cluster size is 4k as I remember. For 16MB file you have about four thousands clusters. In one fat sector there is info about 128 clusters only. So for reaching last sectors of 16MB file you have to read at least about 30 fat sectors. But when you have 64k clusters then 16MB file have only about 256 clusters and allocation map of whole file typically is stored in only three fat sectors. He also wrote: I think that the solution is to improve fat cache. Now I have fat cache of course, but it seems to need some redeveloping. With my solution (larger cluster size) the problem is gone, so I'm happy. 1GB SD cards are not that expensive anymore, and even with 512MB card you can have 100% result (like pigula wrote above). With my 256MB card I get nice performance (8MB on full speed, and the second 8MB of partition on almost full speed). So it is not really an important issue at all. Thanks for all your help and interest in this. Marius p.s. my program does set the right parameters on $0300 - $030B and then jumps to $e459 to read one double density sector right through the SIO, this is repeated $ff times. And that on several locations. That is a reliable test routine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorgle Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 I have another question: am I correct that to use the sio2sd with a 1200xl I will have to connect a +5V jumper to the correct pin on the SIO port? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigula Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 I have another question: am I correct that to use the sio2sd with a 1200xl I will have to connect a +5V jumper to the correct pin on the SIO port? Yes You need to connect 5 wires from sio2sd to Atari SIO. (5V, gnd, command, data in, data out). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 @pigula For about 4 days I've been playing around with the Sio2SD's you've made, and I must say: a wonderful job. Thanks a lot. After the little slowness problem (that is fixed) I have had only very good experience with sio2SD. So in near future I'll order another pair of these great devices. I'll let you know. I think everybody will LOVE sio2SD. Sio2IDE is cool, but sio2SD is even cooler. A real must-have for every atari 8bit user. In combination with a highspeed OS like Qmeg it is a very good stand-alone system (fast and flexible) Marius p.s. What should be done to atari to get that HSINDEX 0..5 seting working It works from HSINDEX 6 perfectly here, all lower settings (extreme fast speed would that be!!) do not work yet. So is there a solution? I already did remove the capacitors along the Sio pins in my atari XE computer. (I wonder why they were installed at all...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 Hello Marius (I wonder why they were installed at all...) If I understood correctly that was done to filter out noise. Greetings Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorgle Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 I agree- the SIO2SD is a great device. The only thing that would make it better is a comprehensive user's manual. The website is of only limited use to noobies like me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigula Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 I agree- the SIO2SD is a great device. The only thing that would make it better is a comprehensive user's manual. The website is of only limited use to noobies like me. Yes I know! I need little time.... for made good manual for nobies! Now all interface was made on 2.0 pcb -> like this -> http://sio2sd.gucio.pl/board2/sio2sd_brd.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 The only thing that I would love is a switch or keycombination to switch fast D1: and D2: Sometimes games wants to swap disk pretty regular. Is it possible with a hardware switch or jumper? (in place of jumper I could put a switch) ... or isn't this possible at all? No problem if it isn't, but it would be cool. Marius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigula Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 The only thing that I would love is a switch or keycombination to switch fast D1: and D2: Sometimes games wants to swap disk pretty regular. Is it possible with a hardware switch or jumper? (in place of jumper I could put a switch) ... or isn't this possible at all? No problem if it isn't, but it would be cool. Marius Maybe in future... (pcb v3 ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.