C64 vs. Atari XEGS

[jesusc]

This may be the wrong place to look for an unbiased answer;however, which computer was "better" for games as far as graphics and sound goes?

I've had a commodore for over a year and like it a lot. Last week I bought a XEGS with a handful of cartridge games.

The commodore games seem to blow the xegs out of the water. BUT, 98% of my C64 games are disks, whereas all the xegs stuff I have are carts (would that make a difference?)

I always assumed they'd be close, but it doesn't seem like it.

[+Mitch]

Depends which cart games you have, if they are the ones from 1979, then yeah, there would definitely be a difference.

 

Mitch

[DracIsBack]

This is a bit of a grey area, but I'd give it to the Commdore. It's just easier to get better graphics and sounds from the C64. The XEGS is capable of some cool stuff (256 colors, 4-voice sound) but much more work. Also, the XEGS was dying off when Commdore was really at their peak for gaming.

[Gamemaster_ca_2003]

Of cours you know that Nintendo blew them both out of the water.

[sku_u]

Of cours you know that Nintendo blew them both out of the water.

 

In what respect?

[+davidcalgary29]

I'd personally like to see a comparison between the 64GS and the XEGS. Ocean put out some really neat games for the European market on cart that are certainly more sophisticated than "Lunar Lander" and "Lemans", but then, Atari really upped the ante for the 8-bit with their own late '80s XEGS releases as well.

[ZylonBane]

I've had a commodore for over a year and like it a lot. Last week I bought a XEGS with a handful of cartridge games.

You do realize, don't you, that the Atari 400, 800, 600XL, 800XL, 1200XL, 65XE, 800XE, 130XE, and XEGS are all basically the exact same hardware, yes? The Atari 400/800 were released in 1979. The Commodore 64 was released in 1982. So of course the C64 is going to be somewhat more technically capable.

 

And yes, the 8-bit Atari vs Commodore 64 debate has been held many, many, MANY, MANY times in the last twenty years.

[The Eidolon]

I've always been amazed at what the later games were capable of producing out of the Atari hardware. Comparing some of my older cartridge games with later titles like:

 

Alternate Reality

Rescue on Fractilus

The Eidolon (of course)

Realm of Impossibility

Bruce Lee

 

it seems like they weren't even written for the same computers.

 

I don't see that it much matters at this late date whether the Atari 8-bit

or C64 were "better" computers. But the Atari computers were pretty

nifty machines for 1979...

 

--The Eidolon

[DracIsBack]

Of cours you know that Nintendo blew them both out of the water.

 

That's "stretching" things a little. Yes, the (NEWER) NES is better in some areas. But "blew out of the water" implies a whole new level of graphics and sound -- neither of which I agree with.

[tyranthraxus]

Well as a retro gamer the XE has an edge because it has more arcade

titles available on cartridge which are just easier to use and collect than

disks. However the 64 was the more popular machine and its software

selection just crushes the XE. The Last Ninja series alone is one of many

standouts.

[Draikar]

All I know is WOLFENSTEIN for Commodore 64 was WAY better then Apple and Atari in colors.

 

As too Atari XEGS well, it just used old games from past Atari systems. Seems some of the most marketed game was in Atari's 2600 line up game run of games. Only real Atari XEGS made games kinda sucked (fun but not for long) and the other games of that time came out on Atari 7800 / Nintendo as well...

 

It was just stupid to put out the Atari XEGS with Atari 7800 and at one time a Atari's 2600 Jr. Just seemed simpler to buy a C64 or NES...

 

Atari XEGS WAS A DAMN GAME SYSTEM, please don't tell me its a computer. 80% of buyers got it thinking it was a game system with computer technology. Back then game systems and computers were not the same or the idea at the time (WHEN YOU SAID COMPUTER YOU THINK OF BETTER GRAPHICS). All it was was a Atari game system with a keyboard and a diskdrive port and could not play Atari 2600/7800 game carts !

 

I do love the Atari XEGS, it was my first Atari, but when I got it Stores stops selling all atari stuff after so what do you do with a system with no games but bug hunt (you buy nintendo)

[+davidcalgary29]

All I know is WOLFENSTEIN for Commodore 64 was WAY better then Apple and Atari in colors.

 

As too Atari XEGS well, it just used old games from past Atari systems. Seems some of the most marketed game was in Atari's 2600 line up game run of games. Only real Atari XEGS made games kinda sucked (fun but not for long) and the other games of that time came out on Atari 7800 / Nintendo as well...

 

It was just stupid to put out the Atari XEGS with Atari 7800 and at one time a Atari's 2600 Jr. Just seemed simpler to buy a C64 or NES...

 

Atari XEGS WAS A DAMN GAME SYSTEM, please don't tell me its a computer. 80% of buyers got it thinking it was a game system with computer technology. Back then game systems and computers were not the same or the idea at the time (WHEN YOU SAID COMPUTER YOU THINK OF BETTER GRAPHICS). All it was was a Atari game system with a keyboard and a diskdrive port and could not play Atari 2600/7800 game carts !  

 

I do love the Atari XEGS, it was my first Atari, but when I got it Stores stops selling all atari stuff after so what do you do with a system with no games but bug hunt    (you buy nintendo)

 

The problem here seems again to be a lack of proper distribution and support. I was lucky enough to live in the same town in which Atari Canada was located, so all of the local department stores were well-stocked with XEGS titles. I certainly did see more XEGS titles than 7800 titles in the late '80s in my area, but then, I wasn't really looking for 7800 stuff at the time.

 

The XE line of games were, for the most part, excellent (especially given the fact that the hardware was over 10 years old at that point) and competitive with releases for other systems. There were a few clunkers in there, but for every "Thunderfox" there was a "Crystal Castles".

[DracIsBack]

The problem here seems again to be a lack of proper distribution and support. I was lucky enough to live in the same town in which Atari Canada was located, so all of the local department stores were well-stocked with XEGS titles. I certainly did see more XEGS titles than 7800 titles in the late '80s in my area

 

It's interesting what a difference the regions make. In Ottawa, 2600 JR and titles were carried almost everywhere. Every department store and toy store had them.

 

The 7800 was less common, but still available at K-Mart, Toy City (remember that!), Toys R Us and others.

 

But the XEGS, I almost never saw at all. Zellers had it one brief Christmas but dropped it fast. I also saw a few of the games (not the system itself) and a few dealers and that was it.

 

The XE line of games were, for the most part, excellent (especially given the fact that the hardware was over 10 years old at that point) and competitive with releases for other systems.

 

The big challenge was that the XE didn't have the types of games the kids wanted to play at the time. By the time Atari was thinking that way, the XE was dead. I'll never understood why Atari released FLIGHT SIMULATOR II as a packin.

 

There were a few clunkers in there, but for every "Thunderfox" there was a "Crystal Castles".  

 

Certainly, if you wanted arcade classics, the XE (and 7800 and 2600 had lots). But kids in 1987 wanted SUPER MARIO etc. Atari was repackaging old computer disk titles that either looked out of date (ie. BLUE MAX, MISSILE COMMAND, ONE ON ONE BASKETBALL etc), played out of date (ex. compare CRIME BUSTERS to DUCK HUNT) or just weren't really fun for kids (ex. ACE OF ACES, FLIGHT SIMULATOR II, GATO).

 

The 7800 suffered from the same problem, but because it lived longer and sold better, it at least had DOUBLE DRAGON, IKARI WARRIORS, COMMANDO, XENOPHOBE, ALIEN BRIGADE, SCRAPYARD DOG etc.

 

The only released XEGS titles that sort of reflected what the competition was doing were DARK CHAMBERS and THUNDERFOX. I know Atari was working on others, but they canned the XEGS before they came out.

 

I think Atari's marketing was a bit screwy. They repackaged the XE as a kids toy (pastal buttons and all), made ads with kids in it but the lineup would have been more appealing to older gamers. I still remember that XE ad with the kid excited about playing "FLIGHT SIMULATOR II". I thought "Yeah -- right. Like a ten year old is going to read those two thick manuals to play such a slow paced game."

[Draikar]

In Indiana there was no Atari games/computers/systems, only The Atari XEGS SYSTEM in a Toys R' US and they did not sell that system long or advertised them. Only way to buy Atari games was the disks for the computers and they were advertised as C64 games with the back side Atari compatible on a few.

[Jeff Lodoen]

In Indiana there was no Atari games/computers/systems, only The Atari XEGS SYSTEM in a Toys R' US and they did not sell that system long or advertised them. Only way to buy Atari games was the disks for the computers and they were advertised as C64 games with the back side Atari compatible on a few.

 

You shoulda picked up an Atari mag (ANALOG, Antic, Atari Explorer) an bought mail order. Plenty of good stuff to buy.

 

But the 8-bit game market was dead by 1987 while the C64 kept getting new releases into the 1990s.

 

Yes, the XEGS was a computer.

[DeV0]

I gotta say the xegs, mainly because i consider it one of my consoles. The c64 is a fine machine but ive never been into discs or tapes. So the only c64 games i play are the carts. Then theres the 3 year lead the 400 had on the c64 which gave commodore room to improve the technology. yeah, atari 8bit for me

[Hydian]

My computer only had 4 colors. 16 in the proprietary PCjr mode.

 

My original Coco only had a few colors in it's palette too.

[DracIsBack]

My computer only had 4 colors.  16 in the proprietary PCjr mode.

 

My original Coco only had a few colors in it's palette too.

 

My CoCo had 16 colors onscreen and 64 in its palette.

[ZylonBane]

Atari XEGS WAS A DAMN GAME SYSTEM, please don't tell me its a computer.

You are, of course, wrong. The XEGS is a repackaged Atari 65XE, marketed as a game system. It can run almost all XL/XE software right out of the box.

 

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the 5200 in this thread yet. That was also a game system based on the same old ANTIC/GTIA/POKEY chipset. But with the 5200 they at least changed the surrounding system architecture enough that it was a distinct system. Really the only reason XEGS games look better than 5200 games is because the XEGS had more RAM (16K vs 64K), and average cartridge ROM sizes had gotten bigger too.

[DracIsBack]

Here's an interesting Usenet Article once posted on the XEGS by Atari's Neil Harris, back when it was new:

 

We come again to that perpetual question: is Atari intent on killing the

8-bits?

 

One way to answer that would be to give you a tour of our warehouse.  If you

could see the number of 8-bit computers and software in inventory, you'd

know we are highly motivated to keep the line going.

 

Regarding the new XE Game System, which on the first glance is a slap in

the face to those who know how powerful the 8-bitters are -- this system is

purely a strategic move on our part.  In order to keep the 8-bit line going,

we must do two things:

 

1. Get the computers available in more stores, and

2. Get new software developed for them.

 

Software is not being developed by and large because of problem #1.  So

which stores do we go to?  The mass merchants, who sold the bulk of the

hundreds of thousands (not, unfortunately, millions) of Atari 8-bit

computers out there, are currently retreating from the computer business.

K-Mart carries NO computers.  Ditto for Montgomery Wards.  And for J.C.

Penney's.

 

On the other hand, these same stores are doing a fabulous business in game

systems like Nintendo, Sega, and, of course, Atari.

 

The solution, from a business point of view, was to develop a product that

would be appealing to the mass merchants (and also to the public which buys

there), one that also accomplishes the corporate objective of revitalizing

the 8-bit line.

 

So what we have with the XE Game System is essentially a 65XE in disguise.

Internally it contains 64K of RAM, the standard OS and BASIC in ROM, two

joystick ports, SIO port, etc.  It is completely compatible with the current

8-bit line, including software.

 

Physically it is more appealing to those who don't want a computer but who

do want to play games.  The main console simply has the 4 console keys from

the XE (Start, Select, Option, and Reset), plus the cartridge port and

connectors.  The keyboard is a separate unit which plugs into the console.

 

When someone buys the XE Game System, they get the complete package --

console, keyboard, light gun, and 3 programs (including a new version of

Sublogic's Flight Simulator including scenery, all on a single cartridge).

 

We expect stores to do a great business in these.  We'll make available the

current library of cartridge software, plus we're converting some disk

programs into cartridge format for this system.  As time goes by, we expect

to see dramatic increases in sales for 8-bit software -- hopefully, this

will also include practical applications as well as games.  This should in

turn encourage developers to create new titles for the 8-bits.

 

Once things get moving again in the mass merchants, the current supply of

8-bit computers should also get moving through the dealers -- after all,

they make a better value than the game systems, and take up less space.

 

So, those few of you out there who are looking at Atari management as the

evil group who are plotting to quash the 8-bit line, you have it all wrong.

We're trying hard to keep things moving forward.  Without the distribution

and the software, no amount of advertising and new hardware development

could work.  The XE Game System is our best hope to keep things moving.

--  

--->Neil Harris, Director of Marketing Communications, Atari Corporation

UUCP: ...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil

GEnie: NHARRIS/ WELL: neil / BIX: neilharris / Delphi: NEILHARRIS

CIS: 70007,1135 / Atari BBS 408-745-5308 / Usually the OFFICIAL Atari opinion

[Trip_Cannon]

Which 8-bit Atari Computer would most people agree is the best? In terms of power, memory, expandibilty, etc...

[DracIsBack]

Which 8-bit Atari Computer would most people agree is the best? In terms of power, memory, expandibilty, etc...

 

Memory: The 130XE has the most, out of the gate.

 

Power: They all use the same processor.

 

Graphics and sound: With the exception of early 400 and 800 systems, they all have the same CTIA chip.

 

 

Expandability: Not sure.

 

One point that some have noted is that the XE's feel cheap (Tramiel price wars) compared to Warner's XL systems. The keyboards, buttons, displays etc all seem of higher quality.

[Bryan]

I've had a commodore for over a year and like it a lot. Last week I bought a XEGS with a handful of cartridge games.

You do realize, don't you, that the Atari 400, 800, 600XL, 800XL, 1200XL, 65XE, 800XE, 130XE, and XEGS are all basically the exact same hardware, yes? The Atari 400/800 were released in 1979. The Commodore 64 was released in 1982. So of course the C64 is going to be somewhat more technically capable.

 

And yes, the 8-bit Atari vs Commodore 64 debate has been held many, many, MANY, MANY times in the last twenty years.

 

I'm waiting to see if emkay reads this forum.

[ZylonBane]

I think emkay is write-only.

[Draikar]

Atari XEGS WAS A DAMN GAME SYSTEM, please don't tell me its a computer.

You are, of course, wrong. The XEGS is a repackaged Atari 65XE, marketed as a game system. It can run almost all XL/XE software right out of the box.

 

Yea maybe it is a repackaged Atari 65XE, but how many got the Atari XEGS to run on disk drives / printers / monitors ? You ever see stores or banks with a Atari XEGS ? Atari XEGS is like the "red headed step Step daughter", no one loves it and you can destroy it since no one like the XEGS.